Idle thoughts - the stop the whining edition -

[patfanken]

As you wish:

Roughing the Passer By Quarterback - NFL Penalty Stats Tracker - List/Statistics/Data of NFL Penalties - 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012, 2013, 2014, 2015, 2016

For a really telling story, sort by "Per 100 Attempts" ...

Really interesting stuff, Unc. Thanks a lot. Here are a couple of items I gleened from the info

1. There were 38 starting QB's listed that have had rough flags thrown for them since 2009. NINE of them have more roughing flags thrown for them than Brady. But then it gets interesting.

2. If you do your figuring per 100 attempts, there were 22 QBs who got more flags than Brady on a per 100 attempt basis

3. This season Brady got 3 flags out of a total of 64 thrown. 26 QB's got at least one. 6 had MORE flags thrown for them, including Brees, Flacco, and Cousins who all had TWICE that number. 5 had the same number.

These are the facts that need to get out to the public to rebut the narrative they are trying to sell as Brady being a whiney begger of flags. The actual facts don't come close to reality. In fact anyone who knows the facts and continues that narrative is simply a liar and needs to be called out.

We have seen from deflategate that the truth is no longer a shield against malicious narratives. This one is much lesser of lie, but a lie nontheless.

Thanks again @Uncle Rico for the raw data.

 

[Uncle Rico]

Heard that all week, number 1 defense and Houston. ....

But you won't hear how, despite their own sloppiness, the Patriots still scored 34 points (OK, 27 if you take out the KO return) against that Number 1 defense. Much more insightful-sounding story line to say "Ben/Alex > Brock."

 

[patfanken]

Eye opening on how Rothlesberger has so few Roughing penalties.

Rothlessberger and Flacco are the only major QB's still playing who have lower flags per 100 attempts than Brady (.36 to .40), though Flacco looks to be catching up since he got 6 just this season.

I was also surprised to see that Rothlessberger has gotten 6 flags fewer than Brady over the course of the last 8 seasons. So while there is a difference it's not that great given the span of time. I guess even refs hate rapists....a little.

 

[DaBruinz]

Very odd game. Only your NE Patriots can play a game with a 16 point spread against a team that has won 10 NFL games this season, then BEAT the spread despite turning the ball over FOUR times, and have everyone look and sound like they lost.

Patriots only turned the ball over 3 times. 2 Brady interceptions and the Lewis Fumble. The Second Lewis fumble was recovered by Thuney..

Secondly let us not forget that the Texans not only has one of the better defenses in the league, they came up with a great defensive game plan that worked better than anyone expected. That's is good coaching by THEM, not bad playing by us. And although it was a great scheme that caused 2 sacks and a number of hits, the staff adjusted to scheme and Brady had more time in the 2nd half, even though he still got hit some.

Sorry, Ken, but I actually had a thread called "Where the Houston Game will be won/lost, IMHO"
Where the Houston game will be Won/Lost IMHO

I specifically pointed to the Pats O-line / Houston D-line-Front Seven as being the key matchup and saw numerous things I mentioned. Watching the game, as soon as Houston stopped their twists/stunts is when the Pats pulled away..

7. STs - More examples of ups and downs tonight. The special teams was no different. Great initial blocks by Slater and Devlin unleashed Lewis on his TD run, while Slaters penalty on an Edelman return forced the Pats to start on their own 33 instead of the Houston 46. IIRC that drive ended just outside of FG range. Had there been no penalty it wouldn't have.

The call on Slater was as bogus as the holding call.. Slater was pulling up and the Houston guy cut in front of him and tripped over his own feet. It was laughable..

9. General thoughts -

There was a time during this game when I began to wonder if Roger had gotten word to the refs that the PI call on Hogan was the last flag Houston was going to get. The Solder flag was particularly gauling. Brady was right in being pissed at Clowney. Not so much that he hit him late, but that he didn't have to drag him down so late after the play was over. There will be those who will look at the call Brady DID get and whine that he gets all the calls.

Thats BS. Brady COULD have gotten the call on the guy that was wrapped around his legs after he threw the ball. Clowney ended up hitting him 2 counts AFTER that... and low. It was horrifyingly late.

Brady was hit late by Clowney and other Texans several times and the Refs only called the one that was so ridiculously blatant that it would have ended Morelli's chance to call the SB if he didn't call it..

Now what I want to see is someone (especially in the media) come up with the stats about who is getting all the roughing calls. I'm pretty sure it ISN'T Tom Brady. In fact IIRC a few years ago I saw some stats that showed that far from getting "all the calls" more than half the QB's in the league were gettng more flags than Brady. I just wonder what they are recently. But after watching that late Clowney hit, I thank god Brady is pliable....and Clowney SHOULD get fined.

There was an article in PFF I think a couple years back that showed that Brady actually got the fewest calls in the league and that Big Ben and Peyton got the most ( I believe) .

I held my breath two times during the game in particular -
- When I heard that Hogan was out and questionable to return
- When I saw Marty Bennett on the ground with red marks on his pants and him holding his knee/leg area. I thought he'd broken the leg until they showed the replay..

I was disappointed that the game plan didn't get Floyd, White, and Amendola more involved. Short of the swing pass, I don't think Brady even looked Floyd's way after the interception, which was Brady's fault because it was too far in front of Floyd.

With the little action that Amendola saw, part of me wondered if he were truly healthy of just 80%..

I would have loved to have seen more sets with Lewis and White in the backfield. Especially after Hogan was out.

Though KC and Pitt have good Front Sevens, neither is comparable to Houston's. In fact, of the 6 play-off teams remaining, the Patriots have the Best front 7 left. That doesn't mean that they don't have some issues to fix. As I stated in my thread, the interior of the O-line has had an issue with picking up twists and stunts for more than a decade. Yes, going back to Dan Koppen. Twists and Stunts have been the albatross around the Interior O-line's neck. It wasn't until the Pats started burning the Texans with Brady moving out of the pocket that Houston stopped doing it and Brady was able to pick them apart even more.

 

[willard]

Thanks for your thoughts Ken.

Think you were too hard on Bennett. He may be sacrificing his future playing/income earning ability by playing through some of his injuries. We need him out there for scheme and he has been a warrior.

Agree with earlier comment that KC looks like the most formidable opponent left. Fortunately the number 1 seed gives us an extra day of rest and they need to travel to us so time energy there which we do not need to expend. Good position to be in.

Texans played defense to their best and it was a huge challenge for us. They shut down the run game and alternated blanketing the field and coming at Brady from all Angles. Tom was definitely the reason we won. We also had a Ravens like game being bailed out on the deep ball. Couple of those definitely could have been picks. At the end of the game, Hogan was out, Bennett was on half a leg, Amendola wasn't ready and Floyd is still adjusting to Brady's throws. Tom once again willed out offense to points in the playoffs. GOAT

I bet Lewis gets new gloves for the next game. His electricity is definitely back, but hold onto the ball man. Really liked him as a kickoff return man.

When White finally showed up in the game. I thought excellent White is in (didn't use to think that) and he goes right out and makes a great scoring catch. Surprised he was not used more.

Not nearly as concerned about the OL or the running game as I was last year. Last year Brady was getting smacked in lots of games and everyone knew at the end of the season we could not run the ball. This year we have been strong on the OL and running and chalk the game partially up to Houston having great players and Romeo having a great plan. In my mind Romeo would always be welcome back here.

 

[Bill Lee]

So now we have the narrative established for next week's meidot sh!t storm. " If the Pats hadn't played the 'tomato can" Texans they would have lost." " The only reason they won was they played a horrible QB". This team isn't good enough to beat one of the great QB's that remain in the playoffs". And my personal favorite, "they better hope they don't get Pittsburgh next week because "big ben" and his B's will eat them up.

All I can say is I'm thankful none of our players were photographed on a boat full of celebrities on an off day. Can you imagine the fecal monsoon that would be striking us right now if that had happened?

 

[PatsWickedPissah]

I'm no draftnik but BB really has to expend draft capital on a strong center this spring. Brady's longevity depends upon it.

OK, if the plan is to keep JAG, then forget the OC and let Tom get broken.

 

[DaBruinz]

There was a play earlier in the year, can't remember versus which team, in which Hightower pulled down the QB late out of bounds. I got eviscerated in the GDT for suggesting Hightower easily could have gotten a penalty for the hit even though he had latched on to the QB before he released the ball. This was the exact same situation, the Texans player was grabbing Brady as he released the ball and followed through with the tackle.

Not sure which you are referring to, but on the call that was Given, Brady got hit HI and LOW. One Texan (Covington?) had him around the legs and Clowney came in WELL after the ball was released and hit him. It was so obvious that a blind man could call it..

There were others that were closer that went uncalled, but still should have been called because they were more than one step away from Brady..

 

[patfanken]

Patriots only turned the ball over 3 times. 2 Brady interceptions and the Lewis Fumble. The Second Lewis fumble was recovered by Thuney..




Sorry, Ken, but I actually had a thread called "Where the Houston Game will be won/lost, IMHO"
Where the Houston game will be Won/Lost IMHO

I specifically pointed to the Pats O-line / Houston D-line-Front Seven as being the key matchup and saw numerous things I mentioned. Watching the game, as soon as Houston stopped their twists/stunts is when the Pats pulled away..



The call on Slater was as bogus as the holding call.. Slater was pulling up and the Houston guy cut in front of him and tripped over his own feet. It was laughable..




Brady was hit late by Clowney and other Texans several times and the Refs only called the one that was so ridiculously blatant that it would have ended Morelli's chance to call the SB if he didn't call it..



There was an article in PFF I think a couple years back that showed that Brady actually got the fewest calls in the league and that Big Ben and Peyton got the most ( I believe) .

I held my breath two times during the game in particular -
- When I heard that Hogan was out and questionable to return
- When I saw Marty Bennett on the ground with red marks on his pants and him holding his knee/leg area. I thought he'd broken the leg until they showed the replay..

I was disappointed that the game plan didn't get Floyd, White, and Amendola more involved. Short of the swing pass, I don't think Brady even looked Floyd's way after the interception, which was Brady's fault because it was too far in front of Floyd.

With the little action that Amendola saw, part of me wondered if he were truly healthy of just 80%..

I would have loved to have seen more sets with Lewis and White in the backfield. Especially after Hogan was out.

Though KC and Pitt have good Front Sevens, neither is comparable to Houston's. In fact, of the 6 play-off teams remaining, the Patriots have the Best front 7 left. That doesn't mean that they don't have some issues to fix. As I stated in my thread, the interior of the O-line has had an issue with picking up twists and stunts for more than a decade. Yes, going back to Dan Koppen. Twists and Stunts have been the albatross around the Interior O-line's neck. It wasn't until the Pats started burning the Texans with Brady moving out of the pocket that Houston stopped doing it and Brady was able to pick them apart even more.

Thanks for your thoughts DB. Yes it was true there were only 3 physical turnovers. However even back when I was coaching HS, we ALWAYS concidered a penalty that changed ball possession the equivilent of a turnover. The Rowe penalty was a perfect example. You weren't wrong, I was just marking on a higher curve.

 

[PatsWickedPissah]

Not sure which you are referring to, but on the call that was Given, Brady got hit HI and LOW. One Texan (Covington?) had him around the legs and Clowney came in WELL after the ball was released and hit him. It was so obvious that a blind man could call it..

There were others that were closer that went uncalled, but still should have been called because they were more than one step away from Brady..

That kind of double hit is what can end player's seasons.

 

[AzPatsFan]

Rothlessberger and Flacco are the only major QB's still playing who have lower flags per 100 attempts than Brady (.36 to .40), though Flacco looks to be catching up since he got 6 just this season.

I was also surprised to see that Rothlessberger has gotten 6 flags fewer than Brady over the course of the last 8 seasons. So while there is a difference it's not that great given the span of time. I guess even refs hate rapists....a little.

But Rothlesbergers game is different from Bradys. He holds on to the ball forever waiting for a receiver to get open and he gets hammered often as a result. The few Roughing calls he gets, seems counter intuitive. I think he would have the most valid *****...

 

[Dagg]

My few comments.

Merrill Hoge said it well if you were on a plane and didnt hear anything about the game but the score you would have thought the pats dominated. It also struck me how good Atl looked and the they are getting slurped but the final score of that game is really similar to ours and we are getting trashed. It was an odd night but Im glad that sloppy careless performance from our Offense is behind us.

 

[DaBruinz]

I wasnt able to watch whole game, arrived at the end so thanks for the info about Clowney and Mercilus on Andrews and Thuney. Great plan by Texans and i bet pats were unprepared for this scheme. So interior oline will have to study few more players so they ll be prepared next time.

If Scarnecchia, McDaniels and BB were unprepared for that, then they should all quit because that plan (twists and stunts bringing Clowney and Mercilus inside) was something that I mentioned and I have only a thimble full of football comprehension compared to those 3.

Brady was probably nervous because of that. Will see how will he and Oline respond against Kansas.

Aren't you making a big assumption that the Pats will play KC since that game hasn't been played yet?

Defense was good but again. They did their job. I still dont want to be much hyped until they face offense like Falcons, or Packers, maybe Dallas, Kansas. But Falcons are real offensive juggernat so i would like to see them against them.

As for Logan Ryan. He is always great in coverage against some QBs like Osweiler and &, but not good against some QBs who improvise a lot, like Wilson or Rodgers. So if they get rodgers will see his value against him.

The defense made some fantastic adjustments in the 2nd half to force the 3 interceptions. I liked that the 3 Rutgers DBs were the ones who got the INTS. Kudos, especially, to Logan Ryan for essentially shutting down D'Andre Hopkins. I wouldn't be surprised to see the Colts or Titans go after him hard in the off-season to match up..

 

[patfanken]

I'm no draftnik but BB really has to expend draft capital on a strong center this spring. Brady's longevity depends upon it.

OK, if the plan is to keep JAG, then forget the OC and let Tom get broken.

I don't disagree with you, PWP, but I don't think the situation is dire...yet. Lets see if the weakness is something that can be continuously exploited or if there is a protection scheme that solves a lot of the problems OR if this was simply a match up that only the Texans had the personnel to exploit.

BTW- finding an exceptional, physically dominating C is very difficult to find, harder, I think than G's or T's. I had hoped that Stork had solved that issue. I acually think he did....physically, but fell short because of injuries and his mental/attitude issues. Too bad. I was really excited about his future after the 2014 season

 

[JarOfMayo51]

I was throwing my friends bachelor party all yesterday so I didn't catch the game (first playoff game ive missed in over 13 years), but just from scanning through the forums today, I'm glad I wasn't in the game day thread having to deal with the insufferable whiney chicken littles

Patriots win and advance to AFCCG, nothing else matters.

 

[DaBruinz]

As Ken or another poster mentioned, in addiion to the head coach and defensive coach, there are other coaches of the Texans who have been with Pats so long, and hence know the insides of our O system better than any other team.

So, not surprised that RC had teed up his D so well that gave Brady and our O issues. Kudos to them, and thanks for showing us the weakness that others might try to exploit.

I am glad to see the pissed off sound bites by all post-game and so more confident of a great showing next week.

GO PATS!!

Former Patriots Coaches on the Texans (3):
HC - Bill O'Brien
OC- George Godsey
DC - Romeo Crennel

Former Patriot Players who are Coaches with the Texans (2):
DL - Mike Vrabel
ST - Larry Izzo

I know that Nantz / Simms said there were 5 former Patriots coaches in Houston, but, like usual, they are wrong.

 

[ALP]

what do you mean we held miller to a little more than 2ypc? the guy had 3.8...the run D sucked last night...?

 

[archstanton543]

I was throwing my friends bachelor party all yesterday so I didn't catch the game (first playoff game ive missed in over 13 years), but just from scanning through the forums today, I'm glad I wasn't in the game day thread having to deal with the insufferable whiney chicken littles

Patriots win and advance to AFCCG, nothing else matters.

Well, ****, why even have a message board at all if everyone thought that way.

 

[The Gr8est]

In regards to the coaching, I'm thinking the distractions of our coordinators interviewing for other positions is complete BS that the NFL* needs to put an end to.

Everyone is playing for the ultimate prize of winning a Superbowl, so at a time when coaches need to be the most focused on the job at hand, the league allows these major distractions and loss of focus.

I don't give a rat's ass about the fortunes of the loser franchises. They can just wait unail the winners are done with their business.

Suppose SF had basically guaranteed McDaniel the HC position once the Pats are eliminatrd. Now his attention may be divided between doing his current job and what he can do to fix the 49ers.

Sorry, teams that suck, but you suck, and as a result you just need to wait and suck for a while longer, while the teams that don't suck get to continue not sucking.

**** the NFL* !!!

 

[The Gr8est]

People are quick to point out the obvious contributions of Joe Thuney and Malcolm Mitchell from this year's draft class... but I'd put Vince Valentine right up there with them. Kid has some Wilfork-like qualities to his game.

He wasn't a popular pick on draft day, but you are not hearing him mentioned much anymore by the naysayers.