Content Post Idle thoughts: Moral victory, or Lost opportunity....

[p8ryts]

Who compiles “win rates?”

I watched the game, I saw Mac throwing from many clean pockets.

The Eagles head coach stated in his post game interview how his pass rush was nullified right up until the end of game but they kept at it… maybe Nick Siriani wasn’t given the “win rates.”

Nick went over to the Coxman and said sic em and he did.

 

[patsfanfromoversea]

Who compiles “win rates?”

I watched the game, I saw Mac throwing from many clean pockets.

The Eagles head coach stated in his post game interview how his pass rush was nullified right up until the end of game but they kept at it… maybe Nick Siriani wasn’t given the “win rates.”

Well we are using the same stat to say how great white played but I guess this only goes in one direction

 

[VJCPatriot]

Just for reference, Mac Jones currently leads the NFL in pass attempts.

Just for reference Mac Jones also is tied for 28th in the league for Yards Per Attempt at 5.8 YPA. That just makes it clear that he's nothing more than a "dink and dunker" at this point in his career and has a lot of work to do on improving that "popgun" arm strength.

It's not so impressive for a QB to make 54 pass attempts when he nets such low yardage per attempt!

And in case we forgot, Mac Jones also played a BIG role in our LOSS!



Just look at that awful interception followed by the LOWEST EFFORT at a tackle I've seen by a QB in years! He's actually embarrassing to the uniform!

 

[Kasmir]

That's a whole lot of copium and excuse-making. The facts are the facts. Who was the GM who assembled that OL and didn't seriously address it in the draft. Oh yeah his name is BB. Who pushed ALL his chips into the defensive pile and still ended up losing because the OL wasn't good enough to create holes for the RBs? Oh yes, that guy's name is BB.

The Patriots can only play against the team in front of them. If they play against a good team, now they are suddenly excused for not performing?

Stevenson and Elliot combined for 54 yards rushing. FACT. The Patriots inability to rush the ball effectively contributed to their LOSS. FACT.

Time to take off the HOMER glasses. This team wasn't good enough to win and they deserved the LOSS.

If you can't take facts seriously, that's a shame because we live in the Real World, not the world of EXCUSES. Results matter. Even BB himself admitted in his press conference that the team didn't make enough plays to win.

I limited my comment to your complaints about Rhamondre.

It sure looks like your hatred of Belichick is easily triggered.

 

[Kasmir]

Tua Tagovailoa 2022 3548 passing yards 25 TDs 8 Ints 8.9 YPA.
Mac Jones 2022 2997 passing yards 14 TDs 11 Ints 6.8 YPA.

These TWO are NOT the same.

Tua 2023 466 yards 3 TDs 1 INT 10.4 YPA.
Mac 2023 316 yards 3 TDs 1 INT 5.9 YPA.

Tua has significantly better numbers. But the most telling stat is the Yards Per Attempt.
Mac is clearly a 'dink and dunker' who doesn't get the ball down the field to get his yards.

Part of it is a function of the fact that the Pats suck at drafting WRs and have collected a bunch of slot/possession WRs sure, but we just saw Mac Jones throw so many passes short of the 1st down marker against the Eagles. His 5.9 YPA reflects his lack of arm strength. He just can't hit his receivers in stride right in the numbers to allow them to gain more yards.

Care to compare Mac to Tua at Alabama? Almost an A/B test, and Mac at least held his own.

 

[Actual Pats Fan]

Where's that quote from?

Myself.

 

[patfanken]

One last thing before we move over to Miami. I left out a significant plus from last game. There have been a lot of comparisons being made to the 2001 team, which also had few expectations. And I recalled one BIG plus from that team was how physical they were. Even in loses it was always the OTHER team that ended up limping off the field at the end of the game.

Well the Eagles with their 2 dominant lines are a very physical team, but it was the Pats who who by and large out hit the Eagles especially on both side of the ball. They had 2 guys knocked out of the game, but not with ankles or knees, but with RIB injuries. But if you watched closely I think you would agree the Pats out hit the Eagles ESPECIALLY on D

 

[hellolin]

I'm getting tired of sports talk radio drivel like this personally. You used 29 meaningless words to say 'Brady Good, BB Bad'.

You said BB bad, not me, so you read into your own mind, which confirms my thoughts exactly: most people here don't want to say it out loud but when you dig deeper, it's the same sentiment. Reality speaks louder than my words: they have not played great football at all since Brady left, at times they were good, but never great.

 

[Rob0729]

Just for reference, Mac Jones currently leads the NFL in pass attempts.

This came against a defense that ranked third all-time in the history of pro football in team sacks last season.

He got sacked twice, and once was a coverage sack that simply took too long.

Suggesting the line played poorly is just terrible analysis. They weren't perfect, but Mac threw from a lot of clean pockets yesterday.

According to the stat I saw, Mac was pressured 28 of 54 passes. That isn’t the disaster it was last year, but it isn’t great. The o-line played ok especially compared expectations. But they weren’t great.

2023 Philadelphia Eagles Advanced Stats | Pro-Football-Reference.com

Check out the 2023 Philadelphia Eagles Advanced Stats including passing, rushing, receiving, defense stats and more on Pro-Football-Reference.com.

www.pro-football-reference.com

 

[Rob0729]

Tua Tagovailoa 2022 3548 passing yards 25 TDs 8 Ints 8.9 YPA.
Mac Jones 2022 2997 passing yards 14 TDs 11 Ints 6.8 YPA.

These TWO are NOT the same.

Tua 2023 466 yards 3 TDs 1 INT 10.4 YPA.
Mac 2023 316 yards 3 TDs 1 INT 5.9 YPA.

Tua has significantly better numbers. But the most telling stat is the Yards Per Attempt.
Mac is clearly a 'dink and dunker' who doesn't get the ball down the field to get his yards.

Part of it is a function of the fact that the Pats suck at drafting WRs and have collected a bunch of slot/possession WRs sure, but we just saw Mac Jones throw so many passes short of the 1st down marker against the Eagles. His 5.9 YPA reflects his lack of arm strength. He just can't hit his receivers in stride right in the numbers to allow them to gain more yards.

You can’t make this analysis based on one game. The Pats went up against a dominant defense that pressured Mac 28 out of 54 passes. Meanwhile, Tua was only pressured five times out of 45 attempts. Mac was hurried 10 times while Tua was hurried three times. That played a big role. Tua had time to let plays develop down the field. Mac had to get rid of the ball quickly.

To cherry pick a stat in one game and use it to make a definitive argument about these two QB’s arm strength is a little silly.

If you have watched both these QBs, their arm strength aren’t significantly different. Both have below average arm strength. The biggest difference between these two QBs are the players around them.

EDIT: According to these stats, Mac was hurried 21 times vs Tua’s 3. Mac only made nine more pass attempts than Tua.

2023 Advanced Quarterback Stats | NFL Metrics | FantasyPros

View 2023 Advanced Quarterback Stats including Air Yards, Deep Ball Passing, Pocket Time, and more. See how QBs perform across the NFL's key metrics.

www.fantasypros.com

 

[Rob0729]

Just for reference Mac Jones also is tied for 28th in the league for Yards Per Attempt at 5.8 YPA. That just makes it clear that he's nothing more than a "dink and dunker" at this point in his career and has a lot of work to do on improving that "popgun" arm strength.

It's not so impressive for a QB to make 54 pass attempts when he nets such low yardage per attempt!

And in case we forgot, Mac Jones also played a BIG role in our LOSS!



Just look at that awful interception followed by the LOWEST EFFORT at a tackle I've seen by a QB in years! He's actually embarrassing to the uniform!

It is one game.

The Pats came into the game knowing that they were facing arguably the best defensive line in the league with an o-line missing two starters, two rookies playing their first game in their NFL careers, a RT who missed the entire preseason due to illness, and none of them getting time to play together. The game plan was for Mac to make a lot of short quick passes including a lot of screens behind the line of scrimmage.

Meanwhile the Dolphins played an average at best defense that came into the game with a crap strategy to give Tua plenty of time to throw and keeping everything in front of them to prevent giving up the big plays.

 

[Rob0729]

Those games aren't so easily dismissed.

The Packers didn't have a winning record so it doesn't count, but the Vikings weren't actually good, so their winning record doesn't count, and the Pats had to almost come back against the Bengals after playing poorly (something being celebrated here against the Eagles), so that doesn't count? The Lions they beat also had a winning record last year btw.

The defense played plenty good plenty often last year. It wasn't the Pats' ability to score bunches of points keeping them in games.

Your posts are often centered around one narrative. You keep beating the "Patricia was so bad" drum between posts defending Mac. It's obvious you're exaggerating last year's inability to compete against good teams to support the idea that everything will change now that 100%-at-fault Fat Matt is gone (to further support the idea Mac was but a poor victim of circumstance).

That's also not to say I don't agree that Mac did enough to win yesterday but-for Boutte. That he showed flashes of a clutch gene developing because he (barely) did what he needed to do to come back (from a hole he largely put them in himself) and his team came up short. But let's not act like this team wasn't competing at all last year.

I assume you were talking to me even though you didn't quote me or mention me. You are just obsessed with me and your own narrative.

I have repeatedly said before you came at me that I was talking about both sides of the ball because last year the defense had issues defending good offenses last year. Over the last few years, the Patriots defense has struggled with the better offenses and beat up on the weaker offenses. Sunday was a game where they proved they could shut down what was a top offense in the league in 2022 and probably will be in 2023. We didn't see that last year.

And I also never said that Mac did enough to win. I said it wasn't his fault that he couldn't make a statement drive at the end of the game. I said he made the play to set up a first and goal and Boutte didn't drag the foot. I never said he would have completed the drive and win the game. And he made enough mistakes early to help contribute to the loss even if the Pats did overcome the early mistakes. I thought overall Mac was good and not great on Sunday. You cannot overlook the early mistakes he made and some of his bad decisions and bad throws. Mac was A REASON why the Pats didn't win on Sunday, but clearly not THE REASON. If he and the offense started stronger and didn't turn over the ball twice, they probably would have won.

You keep talking about my narrative, but you were the one tagging me in the game day thread in the first quarter trying to show that that one quarter with one really bad pass by Mac as proof he was the problem last year and not as much Patricia. So who is actually pushing a narrative?

We get it. You hate Mac Jones and apparently take out your hatred of him on me because I do defend the guy.

 

[PScottman]

Just for reference Mac Jones also is tied for 28th in the league for Yards Per Attempt at 5.8 YPA. That just makes it clear that he's nothing more than a "dink and dunker" at this point in his career and has a lot of work to do on improving that "popgun" arm strength.

It's not so impressive for a QB to make 54 pass attempts when he nets such low yardage per attempt!

The concept of team and gameplan are irrelevant apparently? Was there a concerted effort to mask a decimated OL, further exacerbated by a run game that was likewise unable to move the ball on offense providing balance and opening up potential play action which is always longer pass attempts in nature? Was that effort highlighted by short, quick throws to simulate that run game via the screen pass (which as negative numbers drastically reduce YPA)?

Naah, it was all one player, totally on his own.

 

[mike_usagisan]

The concept of team and gameplan are irrelevant apparently? Was there a concerted effort to mask a decimated OL, further exacerbated by a run game that was likewise unable to move the ball on offense providing balance and opening up potential play action which is always longer pass attempts in nature? Was that effort highlighted by short, quick throws to simulate that run game via the screen pass (which as negative numbers drastically reduce YPA)?

Naah, it was all one player, totally on his own.

I don't understand why yards per attempt matter. You don't win on style points. For years, the Pats offense was called dinking/dunking, and it led to the first three super bowl wins.

The only thing that matters is win/loss. Tua won. Mac lost. Now let's see if we can flip that in the next game.

 

[Rob0729]

I don't understand why yards per attempt matter. You don't win on style points. For years, the Pats offense was called dinking/dunking, and it led to the first three super bowl wins.

The only thing that matters is win/loss. Tua won. Mac lost. Now let's see if we can flip that in the next game.

Funny, early in Brady's career, he was labeled a dink and dunk QB. People talked about the short passing game being the Patriots running game during this era. It is the Patriots' way of playing offense. Always has been. As Brady became truly the greatest of all time, the Pats opened it up a lot more. But the DNA of the offense has always been the short passing game.

But yes, results are the only thing that truly matters and it wasn't enough on Sunday. We can argue how much Mac had to do with that, but the results are the results.

 

[RobertWeathers]

I don't understand why yards per attempt matter. You don't win on style points. For years, the Pats offense was called dinking/dunking, and it led to the first three super bowl wins.

The only thing that matters is win/loss. Tua won. Mac lost. Now let's see if we can flip that in the next game.

Yea i'm not big on the YPA stat either. Sure, wins are the ultimate outcome but if we want to talk about just the offensive side of the ball, the most important things are.....

Points
Points

and....

Points

How you get them is irrelevant

 

[Jim Beankie]

According to the stat I saw, Mac was pressured 28 of 54 passes. That isn’t the disaster it was last year, but it isn’t great. The o-line played ok especially compared expectations. But they weren’t great.

2023 Philadelphia Eagles Advanced Stats | Pro-Football-Reference.com

Check out the 2023 Philadelphia Eagles Advanced Stats including passing, rushing, receiving, defense stats and more on Pro-Football-Reference.com.

www.pro-football-reference.com

Didn't know reference had those Pressure stats. Thanks!

Wish they had the PktTime (Avg time snap to throw or when pocket collapses) for the individual games themselves. Interesting that Purdy was by far the most pressured QB this past game (56% of snaps vs 40% for Mac):

2023 NFL Advanced Stats | Pro-Football-Reference.com

2023 NFL Advanced Stats

www.pro-football-reference.com

 

[p8ryts]

Statistics are wonderful. My eye test said that a patchwork, inexperienced offensive line, playing a highly touted front 7, provided adequate time for most of the game. Despite Bedard's condemnation of Mafi and Sow, I thought they exceeded all expectations.

 

[Wozzy]

Well we are using the same stat to say how great white played but I guess this only goes in one direction

I saw White play well and pressure Hurts, I didn’t have to check Football Outsiders or PFF to determine whether he played well.

 

[Wozzy]

Just for reference Mac Jones also is tied for 28th in the league for Yards Per Attempt at 5.8 YPA. That just makes it clear that he's nothing more than a "dink and dunker" at this point in his career and has a lot of work to do on improving that "popgun" arm strength.

It's not so impressive for a QB to make 54 pass attempts when he nets such low yardage per attempt!

And in case we forgot, Mac Jones also played a BIG role in our LOSS!
Just look at that awful interception followed by the LOWEST EFFORT at a tackle I've seen by a QB in years! He's actually embarrassing to the uniform!

This is such nonsense. Juju dropped an easy third down conversion and kept running to the sideline in embarrassment, Bourne dropped a tough catch between two defenders followed by Henry in crunch time. Boutte then forgot to get his second foot down otherwise they would have been on the 7 yard line with 25 seconds, four downs and the chance to win the game.

Nobody would give a rat’s azz about a faux title you’ve labeled Mac with if they won. Tom Brady didn’t care that people labeled him a dink and dunker because it’s dumb. You take what the defense gives you, especially when your two downfield threats in Parker and Thornton are out of the lineup.

You’re so desperate to tell us “Mac sucks” you’re reaching.