I just had to watch the game 1 more time

[fgssand]

He used to work for a mob bookie and knows how this stuff works. Yes, the Colts were pre-ordained to go to the SB but Pitt played well enough to overcome some of the most blatant one-sided refereeing any of us can recall seeing. We as Pats fans, know what its like to have to beat a team and OVERCOME blatant poor officiating. I am saying that the game was supposed to go to the Colts. The game was not on the level. However you want me to say it. My friend did not have inside information on this game but he has proven time and again to me that he knows what he is talking about.

I will give you a tip on the Seahawks/Panthers game. Anytime a betting line moves down 2 points (The Hawks were 5.5 point faves on monday and its down to 3.5 by friday) says one thing.....A MOUNTAIN of money moves the line 1 point so there is more than that being bet on Carolina. Now, some of this money is bet on Carolina covering the spread, but its mostly bet on who will win the game. If the Seahawks win(or cover the spread), Vegas wins HUGE. If I were a betting man on this game, I would take the points and the Seahawks now. As for the other part of the NFL picking who will go to the superbowl, The Panthers have Steve Smith (not yet a household name), the Hawks have Shawn Alexander, the NFL MVP and TD's recordholder....People will want to see him in the SB. Now Carolina could overcome the Hawks and the officiating and win the game but my bet says that the refs call the game in favor of the Seahawks.

You are partially right, but mostly wrong. Lines move when too much money comes in for one particular team. The reason the lines move in any direction is to even off the money that has been placed. The bookmakers goal is to have all of the money evenly split between both clubs, then they win by the "vigorish" , the "vig", the percentage the house takes from each bet it charges for making book. The games cannot easily be fixed, especially at the pro level. Sure, occasionally, a ref or a player can be reached by your "mob" but that is a very rare occurance in the NFL. Fixed games do happen in college a little more frequently as it is easier to reach fringe college players that may be needy or be in trouble. Their influence is limited to a play or two and coudl be enough to affect the outcome of a game if the player or ref is in a position at the right time to do something.

The edge that certain bookmakers get is from information gathering. A good bookmaker is adept at gaining information about many facets of the game and using that information to set his line and make his decisions as to which way to lay down and influence the flow of capitol to bring about the 50/50 split.

To summarize, the game is NOT fixed, no way, it is a hugely popular sport with an enormous honest and above board cash flow. Their is no clear cut real beneficiary of a 'fixed" game that you can come up with. The Patriots lost because in this game they were not able to overcome the adversity that came their way in this game.

 

[FloridaPatsFan]

Let me get this straight, the mob fixed the game but Pitt won anyway.

They obviously lost a fortune then, not counting the money used to bribe refs, NFL officials, Tv commentators to not mention the obvious bias etc.

Not a very effective mob, is it.

Oh, and I think your friends right, you should easily be able to drain that land in south central Florida he sold you.

You missed the point completely and your shot at humor is weak.

 

[FloridaPatsFan]

You are partially right, but mostly wrong. Lines move when too much money comes in for one particular team. The reason the lines move in any direction is to even off the money that has been placed. The bookmakers goal is to have all of the money evenly split between both clubs, then they win by the "vigorish" , the "vig", the percentage the house takes from each bet it charges for making book. The games cannot easily be fixed, especially at the pro level. Sure, occasionally, a ref or a player can be reached by your "mob" but that is a very rare occurance in the NFL. Fixed games do happen in college a little more frequently as it is easier to reach fringe college players that may be needy or be in trouble. Their influence is limited to a play or two and coudl be enough to affect the outcome of a game if the player or ref is in a position at the right time to do something.

The edge that certain bookmakers get is from information gathering. A good bookmaker is adept at gaining information about many facets of the game and using that information to set his line and make his decisions as to which way to lay down and influence the flow of capitol to bring about the 50/50 split.

To summarize, the game is NOT fixed, no way, it is a hugely popular sport with an enormous honest and above board cash flow. Their is no clear cut real beneficiary of a 'fixed" game that you can come up with. The Patriots lost because in this game they were not able to overcome the adversity that came their way in this game.

I never said that the mob fixed any game. I only meant to clarify that these bookies make money because they have a better idea of the outcome of the game than the average guy.

Even after I posted my comments I thought I must sound like a depressed sports fan. But I am saying that anyone out there who thinks that NFL games are always won fairly is naive. The NFL is going to put the teams with the best appeal to the public in their biggest games.

 

[fgssand]

I never said that the mob fixed any game. I only meant to clarify that these bookies make money because they have a better idea of the outcome of the game than the average guy.

Even after I posted my comments I thought I must sound like a depressed sports fan. But I am saying that anyone out there who thinks that NFL games are always won fairly is naive. The NFL is going to put the teams with the best appeal to the public in their biggest games.

I agree 100% with your assessment of bookies VS general public.

We are depressed pats fans right now, but already, we look forward with great anticipation and high hopes for 2006.

The game that would have had the best appeal to the public was a Patriots-Colts showdown tomorrow - it wasn't meant to be. Denver - Pitts is like a consolation game in terms of TV markets and national interest for TV ratings. However, time and time again, despite what the NFL and the networks want for greater exposure and ratings fails to materialize. That more than anything confirms the integrity of the product.

 

[The Gr8est]

I agree 100% with your assessment of bookies VS general public.

We are depressed pats fans right now, but already, we look forward with great anticipation and high hopes for 2006.

The game that would have had the best appeal to the public was a Patriots-Colts showdown tomorrow - it wasn't meant to be. Denver - Pitts is like a consolation game in terms of TV markets and national interest for TV ratings. However, time and time again, despite what the NFL and the networks want for greater exposure and ratings fails to materialize. That more than anything confirms the integrity of the product.

If the NFL wanted the Colts in the Superbowl the last thing they want is a New England / Indy showdown.

 

[fgssand]

If the NFL wanted the Colts in the Superbowl the last thing they want is a New England / Indy showdown.

LOL - no doubt about that. There is no question in my mind that Indy will be lucky to win even 10 games next year. Jax may very well win the division.

 

[RayClay]

I never said that the mob fixed any game. I only meant to clarify that these bookies make money because they have a better idea of the outcome of the game than the average guy.

Even after I posted my comments I thought I must sound like a depressed sports fan. But I am saying that anyone out there who thinks that NFL games are always won fairly is naive. The NFL is going to put the teams with the best appeal to the public in their biggest games.

"called to tell me that the NFL was not going to let the Pats have another chance at a SB this year. He said that we were going to probably get screwed on calls and once again......He was dead on."

So you're saying that Tagliabue attempted to fix the game unsuccessfully?

Since the NFL comprises every team and owner "it" couldn't want one team more than another.

 

[RayClay]

I never said that the mob fixed any game. I only meant to clarify that these bookies make money because they have a better idea of the outcome of the game than the average guy.

Even after I posted my comments I thought I must sound like a depressed sports fan. But I am saying that anyone out there who thinks that NFL games are always won fairly is naive. The NFL is going to put the teams with the best appeal to the public in their biggest games.

"called to tell me that the NFL was not going to let the Pats have another chance at a SB this year. He said that we were going to probably get screwed on calls and once again......He was dead on."

So you're saying that Tagliabue attempted to fix the game unsuccessfully?

Since the NFL is comprised of every player and owner "it" obviously couldn't want one team more than another.

 

[RayClay]

He used to work for a mob bookie and knows how this stuff works. Yes, the Colts were pre-ordained to go to the SB but Pitt played well enough to overcome some of the most blatant one-sided refereeing any of us can recall seeing. We as Pats fans, know what its like to have to beat a team and OVERCOME blatant poor officiating. I am saying that the game was supposed to go to the Colts. The game was not on the level. However you want me to say it. My friend did not have inside information on this game but he has proven time and again to me that he knows what he is talking about.

I will give you a tip on the Seahawks/Panthers game. Anytime a betting line moves down 2 points (The Hawks were 5.5 point faves on monday and its down to 3.5 by friday) says one thing.....A MOUNTAIN of money moves the line 1 point so there is more than that being bet on Carolina. Now, some of this money is bet on Carolina covering the spread, but its mostly bet on who will win the game. If the Seahawks win(or cover the spread), Vegas wins HUGE. If I were a betting man on this game, I would take the points and the Seahawks now. As for the other part of the NFL picking who will go to the superbowl, The Panthers have Steve Smith (not yet a household name), the Hawks have Shawn Alexander, the NFL MVP and TD's recordholder....People will want to see him in the SB. Now Carolina could overcome the Hawks and the officiating and win the game but my bet says that the refs call the game in favor of the Seahawks.

Don't mean to beat a dead horse, but why would I give credence to your tip when your only inside information I know of would have led me to bet on a home favorite who not only didn't cover, but lost outright?

Since you don't like my humor, I thought I would stick to logic.

 

[CheerforTom]

The bottom line is that the refs and the Patriots lost this game, Denver did not win it.

Yeah, I'm glad that this board is finally purged of the trolls and we can lament proper... . I feel like I'm in a support group discussion or something.

I think this game was literally the most disappointing sporting event I've ever watched for me. I'd been MEMORIZING this game for a week before it happened, and things were pretty clear: if the Pats could hold off the early Bronco lead and/or stop the run, they would be in the position to deliver the killshot early on. They did both of those things. Even if you look at all the crap Bronco Freak talked about the Broncos having in their advantage, the Patriots negated EVERY SINGLE ONE of them. They barely had more false starts, for crying out loud! If you told me this without telling me about the turnovers before the game happened, I simply wouldn't believe that they lost.

I watched every minute of every game that was on TV this year (I live in Canada, the land of no football - I envy you guys), including the ones like the Jets Monday night blowout, just because I LOVE watching NE play, the calls, everything. I couldn't even watch the last couple minutes of the Broncos game I was so disappointed. I couldn't sleep that night, either.

The Steelers will kill the Broncos.

I watched the game with a good buddy of mine who's a huge Broncos fan, the game was like the pinnacle of our rivalry throughout the year. At some point in the 4th, I turned to the guy and all the frustration spilt out of me as I said, "The Colts are going to murder you guys" (the other AFC game hadn't been played yet). I felt bad at the time, but I think my opinion still stands, even with a different team.

Anyway, sorry this was so long. Still trying to bring closure to it all .

 

[FloridaPatsFan]

I agree 100% with your assessment of bookies VS general public.

We are depressed pats fans right now, but already, we look forward with great anticipation and high hopes for 2006.

The game that would have had the best appeal to the public was a Patriots-Colts showdown tomorrow - it wasn't meant to be. Denver - Pitts is like a consolation game in terms of TV markets and national interest for TV ratings. However, time and time again, despite what the NFL and the networks want for greater exposure and ratings fails to materialize. That more than anything confirms the integrity of the product.

Thanks Sandy. I believe that a Pats/Colts championship game did have the best appeal to the public but I think the NFL did not want to see Dungy/Manning lose again to the Pats. But I am sticking with my opinion of the NFL will manipulate the calls to keep a team hanging around (as evidenced last week with Indy/Pitt) to give them a chance to win if it is in the best interest of the NFL. However, that plan can fail if one team is just plain beating up the favorite.

 

[upstater1]

I don't believe the NFL fixes games, but I will say this: It's clear to me that some players believe it. That much should be obvious to everyone after last weekend.

 

[lobster]

At least the Bronco's know the ref's beat the Pat's, not their play!

 

[QuinielaBox]

Thoughts on last weeks game in Denver

Patriots played an uncharacteristically poor game with Turnovers and coaching decisions being the culprit. The bad breaks from the officials finsihed them.

The Patriots moved the ball down to Denver's 41 and went for it on 4th down. They should have punted and given Denver bad field position. Instead they needlessly gave up 30 yards of field decisions and it took them 1 qtr to recover until the Brady to Davis play.

The next questionable coaching decision was to take a holding call and give Denver another chance on 3rd down - End result was Denver turning it over on downs.

The Patriots should have tried hammering the Broncos on the ground and worn them down. They were starting to do just that sitting on 3 -0 lead and Faulk fumbled the ball which lead to the hideous pass interference call and a 7-3 Denver lead. The special teams screwed then screwed the Patriots with a turnover and 10-3 halftime lead.

Patriots responded like Champions moving the ball on Denver and getting a FG to cut the lead to 10-6. After a three and out, Patriots were moving right back down the field handling the agressive Denver defense.

Then the penultimate play by Champ Bailey. And not being able to get the touchback call reversal on Ben Watson's Tommy Point tackle and forced fumble on Bailey. Denver promptly scored and the Patriots were in deep trouble down 11.

After the Vinitari missed FG and the Brown muff (another questionable interference play by the Broncos), a Denver touchdown, it was 24-6 and the game was over.

Brady took the Patriots 80 yards in two plays and narrowed the deficit to 24-13. But the Patriots defence, playing brilliantly all night, could not contain Denver or get a turnover to give Brady another chance.

I hate to say it, but the Patriots were longshots to win the Super Bowl this year. I think they proved how tough it is to win three bowls in a row. They were really in rebuilding mode from the injuries and coaching defections. That and Corey Dillon underperformed which put pressure on Brady.

I think it is the NFC's turn and hopefully Seattle getting their third major sports championship in its city history. (1918 Seattle Metropolitans won the Stanley Cup the year before the NHL was born and the 1979 Sonics won the NBA title just before Larry Bird joined the Celtics).