Patriots Rumor I believe the Pats will make a big play for Peppers

[Palm Beach Pats Fan]

Re: I believe the Pats will make a big play for Peppers.

Why do people continue to have trouble understanding that Peppers is NOT a DE in a 3-4 defense, but a LB?

EVERYONE understands that, I'm not sure where you are thinking otherwise. The Peppers/Taylor talk re-emergence is fueled by the fact that we made only one addition in the draft at LB, not two or more, and that it was a guy many projected more at ILB. Either OLB is still a need for additions from the outside, or BB has more confidence in some of the current roster players than most of us do. the related discussion around Wilfork & Green only related to Peppers in terms of where a limited amount of money can be spent. Wilfork may be competing with Pappers for available cash, if the deal were seriously considered, though their positions are unrelated.

Personally I think the cost of Peppers would be too high given the uncertainty of how he would project in our system, great vs. merely good. He will want a salary commensurate with being great, so paying that and getting merely "good" could be disastrous with regard to other roster decisions that would be impacted in the next few years.

I'm not hot on Taylor either, but a one or two-year incentive-based and affordable contract would make sense until a young stud pass rusher is brought on board and/or developed.

 

[supafly]

Re: I believe the Pats will make a big play for Peppers.

Bingo. That is the real question and it should make next offseason pretty damn interesting. Personally, I hope that Big Vince does not want Haynesworth money and stays here for the rest of his career.

I would assume that Vince's definition of 'fair' would be to make him higher than a lot of the better NT/DT's in the league. This would include Casey Hampton, Kris Jenkins, Marcus Stroud, and Shawn Rogers. They are making approx. 7.5 to 8 million. I would think that Wilfork would be happy getting paid more than those players, which should put him at 8-9 million per yr average. I thought the top 5 franchise tender mark was set at approx. 7 million for this position, so I couldn't imagine him wanting more than 9 or so, tops.

Still nowhere near Haynesworth money, but more than 'fair' as it puts you above many of your top competitors.

 

[Kontradiction]

Re: I believe the Pats will make a big play for Peppers.

EVERYONE understands that, I'm not sure where you are thinking otherwise. The Peppers/Taylor talk re-emergence is fueled by the fact that we made only one addition in the draft at LB, not two or more, and that it was a guy many projected more at ILB. Either OLB is still a need for additions from the outside, or BB has more confidence in some of the current roster players than most of us do.

Personally I think the cost of Peppers would be too high given the uncertainty of how he would project in our system, great vs. merely good. He will want a salary commensurate with being great, so paying that and getting merely "good" could be disastrous with regard to other roster decisions that would be impacted in the next few years.

I'm not hot on Taylor either, but a one or two-year incentive-based and affordable contract would make sense until a yound stud pass rusher is brought on board and/or developed.

I'm going off of the constant questions of "Should we trade Seymour/Green for Peppers?". How the hell would that make sense unless you thought that Peppers would be a DE in our defense.

 

[Synovia]

Re: I believe the Pats will make a big play for Peppers.

I would assume that Vince's definition of 'fair' would be to make him higher than a lot of the better NT/DT's in the league. This would include Casey Hampton, Kris Jenkins, Marcus Stroud, and Shawn Rogers. They are making approx. 7.5 to 8 million. I would think that Wilfork would be happy getting paid more than those players, which should put him at 8-9 million per yr average. I thought the top 5 franchise tender mark was set at approx. 7 million for this position, so I couldn't imagine him wanting more than 9 or so, tops.

Still nowhere near Haynesworth money, but more than 'fair' as it puts you above many of your top competitors.

Just for the record, Haynesworth money is really about 11M a year. His deal is really 4 years, 45M or so. Theres about a 25M bonus due in year 5 that hes never going to see.

 

[supafly]

Re: I believe the Pats will make a big play for Peppers.

I would love to believe this is the case because we are sorely lacking a decent starter that can set the edge let alone rush the passer from the Left defensive side but lest face it, we need to resign some very critical players currently on the roster. Wilfork, Seymour to name a few, they are both going to be expensive and our defense will not be the same without them both.

I also believe that the removal of one (Big Sey,Vince) will lessen the other's abilities to some extent. I truly believe we need to keep them both to maximize both players.

 

[supafly]

Re: I believe the Pats will make a big play for Peppers.

Just for the record, Haynesworth money is really about 11M a year. His deal is really 4 years, 45M or so. Theres about a 25M bonus due in year 5 that hes never going to see.

Yeah, I knew about the 1st four yrs etc--just thought it was closer to 12-12.5

 

[Palm Beach Pats Fan]

Re: I believe the Pats will make a big play for Peppers.

I'm going off of the constant questions of "Should we trade Seymour/Green for Peppers?". How the hell would that make sense unless you thought that Peppers would be a DE in our defense.

Green is thought of as being overpaid for his production, that is all. Seymour is thought of as potentially wanting more, long-term, than he will be worth, given a noticeable rate of decline. The trade would be for OLB at the expense of new-found DE depth. They are outgoing players merely as a means of maximum cap money-clearing with hopefully minimal impact. Green and Sey are also versatile enough that Carolina may use them as DEs in a 4-3. That doesn't mean that they are interchangeable parts with Peppers in a flying Elvis uni. Carolina may see value in getting them. I think that they would also be leery of the cost/value ratio, however, and uncertainties of translating to a new scheme.

 

[mgteich]

Re: I believe the Pats will make a big play for Peppers.

Okay, why isn't Wilfork worth Haynsworth numbers to the patriots?

Bingo. That is the real question and it should make next offseason pretty damn interesting. Personally, I hope that Big Vince does not want Haynesworth money and stays here for the rest of his career.

 

[amazinPats]

Re: I believe the Pats will make a big play for Peppers.

I was just about to post the same question.

For arguments sake, who says the Pats won't pay Wilfork similar to Haynesworth?

I don't know if they will or will not, but I'm astonished at those who automatically assume that we won't pay Wilfork that kind of dollar.

 

[KDPPatsfan85]

Re: I believe the Pats will make a big play for Peppers.

Okay, why isn't Wilfork worth Haynsworth numbers to the patriots?

Because the highest paid player on the Patriots is Tom Brady and that is how it will be!! Defense is important, but BB has just showed Wilfork that if you want Haynesworth money, we just drafted your replacement. If Wilfork wants to end his career as a Patriot he should be willing to take less than Haynesworth! Also, if we have have to take you out every 3rd down then you are not worth Haynesworth money.

 

[Synovia]

Re: I believe the Pats will make a big play for Peppers.

Green is thought of as being overpaid for his production, that is all. Seymour is thought of as potentially wanting more, long-term, than he will be worth, given a noticable rate of decline.

Noticible rate of decline? 2008 was possibly the best year of Seymour's career. He led the team in sacks despite playing a position that isn't really a pass rusher. No 3-4 DE had more sacks than him.

 

[Synovia]

Re: I believe the Pats will make a big play for Peppers.

Because the highest paid player on the Patriots is Tom Brady and that is how it will be!! Defense is important, but BB has just showed Wilfork that if you want Haynesworth money, we just drafted your replacement. If Wilfork wants to end his career as a Patriot he should be willing to take less than Haynesworth! Also, if we have have to take you out every 3rd down then you are not worth Haynesworth money.

Tom Brady makes in excess of $15M a year. Haynesworth makes $11M. Your post is irrelevant.


Ron Brace isn't 10% the athlete that Wilfork is. Brace is a space clogging meatball. Wilfork is a force of nature.

 

[amazinPats]

Re: I believe the Pats will make a big play for Peppers.

Noticible rate of decline? 2008 was possibly the best year of Seymour's career. He led the team in sacks despite playing a position that isn't really a pass rusher. No 3-4 DE had more sacks than him.

And Jason Taylor was defensive player of the year right before he went into Dancing with the Stars and having a terrible year with the Redskins.

I'm sure that BB looks at the future prospects of each player and compares it to the dollar remuneration. I'm sure he does this every year. Will Big Sey be worth the giant contract that he will likely be asking?

 

[Synovia]

Re: I believe the Pats will make a big play for Peppers.

And Jason Taylor was defensive player of the year right before he went into Dancing with the Stars and having a terrible year with the Redskins.

Theres a big difference between saying a player coming off a terrible year is in decline, and a guy coming off a career year is in decline.


Taylor was terrible in '08. Seymour was great.

 

[amazinPats]

Re: I believe the Pats will make a big play for Peppers.

Theres a big difference between saying a player coming off a terrible year is in decline, and a guy coming off a career year is in decline.


Taylor was terrible in '08. Seymour was great.

Fair enough, though I never stated that Seymour is in decline (another poster wrote that!).

I'm just saying that every player has to be evaluated each year to see if he's worth his contract. That maybe self evident to you as well, but I do think that there is a question regarding Seymour's value if he asks for too much at contract end. There is that risk.

 

[Synovia]

Re: I believe the Pats will make a big play for Peppers.

Fair enough, though I never stated that Seymour is in decline (another poster wrote that!)..

No, you didn't say that, but you argued that it was true. Same thing.

 

[Palm Beach Pats Fan]

Re: I believe the Pats will make a big play for Peppers.

OK, statistically speaking Seymour didn't have a bad year. I recall him being much more disruptive in the past, demanding constant double teams from opponents, but my point can be summarized in the answer to two simple questions:

Do you expect him (Seymour) to be as effective over the duration of his next contract as he has been over the duration of his current contract?

Do you expect that he will want to be paid more or less than he is now in his next contact?

I anticipate him wanting to be paid more (human nature) and contributing less (just a reality for players of his age). I am fine with keeping him long-term. I am not a Peppers binky or a Taylor binky. I can see the argument that if BB really wants such a deal and needs to find the extra cash to make it a reality, letting Seymour go is one possible way that can be accomplished.

I'd rather play with the cards we have (including Seymour) rather than gamble on Peppers, though.

 

[Synovia]

Re: I believe the Pats will make a big play for Peppers.

I'm just saying that every player has to be evaluated each year to see if he's worth his contract. That maybe self evident to you as well, but I do think that there is a question regarding Seymour's value if he asks for too much at contract end. There is that risk.

There is a risk, but at this point, Seymour is a 29 year old who played at an elite level last year. Taylor is a 34 year old who was terrible last year, and refuses to train in the off season.

 

[Synovia]

Re: I believe the Pats will make a big play for Peppers.

I anticipate him wanting to be paid more (human nature) and contributing less (just a reality for players of his age).

I think people have a really distorted view of Seymour's age. Hes 29. He's younger than Thomas was when we signed him to his 6 year deal.

 

[RoughingthePasser]

Re: I believe the Pats will make a big play for Peppers.

Why do people continue to have trouble understanding that Peppers is NOT a DE in a 3-4 defense, but a LB?

Right. I understand what you're saying but in a 3-4 as an LB.....
you have that option on downs to line up as a DE ....

and JP would be a problem by his ability to adjust to pass/ run