How much would you pay to keep Talib?

[Huckleberry1]

6 million a season with conditions for playing time.

 

[ripatsfan91]

I go back and forth on Talib. My current state of mind is that if we can get a durable safety for whatever we would be willing to pay Talib, I much prefer that. If we can't, then sign him because I don't see another way to maintain the secondary.

Another alternative might be to take his money and add pieces to the defensive line, but I feel like we need both:

A) Add depth/talent to the DL
B) Keep Talib, replace Talib with an equivalent CB, OR add a dependable and talented safety with that money.

With that in mind, I would much rather pay Talib the 11.5 mil cap hit than Wilfork.

Talib gets a contract for 6-8 million with incentive.

Those of you pointing out that the franchise tag is 11 something for CBs, keep in mind Revis is 16 mil which severely skews the tag.

 

[varjao]

20 mi / 4 years

Nothing more than that, and as I said in other thread, i would rather invest that money in safety or DE.

 

[Deus Irae]

20 mi / 4 years

Nothing more than that, and as I said in other thread, i would rather invest that money in safety or DE.

Why would Talib take that deal?


Can we please get away from thinking that players should enjoy a **** sandwich in lieu of actually getting competitive contracts?

 

[mayoclinic]

Can we please get away from thinking that players should enjoy a **** sandwich in lieu of actually getting competitive contracts?

I agree with this.

The market for Talib is going to be around $7M/year. Maybe he takes a small discount, maybe he agrees to some incentives. The guaranteed money will be as/more important than the AAV, as MgTeich notes.

Either the team decides he's worth it, or they decide they can spend the money better elsewhere. But there won't be any $5M/year bargains.

 

[Sicilian]

Why would Talib take that deal?


Can we please get away from thinking that players should enjoy a **** sandwich in lieu of actually getting competitive contracts?

The only thing I'll say in their defense is that Talib took a 1 year, 5.5m "show me" deal last year, most likely due to injury/character concerns. This year he was a model citizen, so those are allayed for now, but he did little to alleviate the injury concerns. That hip is still a time bomb. He'll get more than the 4 at 20 proposed here, but I don't think he's going to get top flight CB money.

 

[Danger Zone]

Ive loved having Talib on the team.

I think he's proven that with 2nd and 3rd CBs Next-Man-Up just doesnt work with the guys we have now.

But with Talib in place he makes everything else work.. and work dare I say it, really well.

So my numbers for Talib

Steal at 5 million
Bargain at 6-7 million
Great value at 8 million
Good value at 9-10 million
Ok/average value at 11 million (grumble and shake your fist at meddlesome other teams behind closed doors)

- I'd easily pull the trigger at 9 or less.
- Think about alternatives if he requires 10, but more than likely would sign him for that.
- Strongly look at alternatives at 11 million, but again would probably end up signing him.
- Soul search at 12 and really work at finding an alternative
- At 13 million, Id rather pay/trade for an elite CB without health concerns

 

[Sicilian]

Ive loved having Talib on the team.

I think he's proven that with 2nd and 3rd CBs Next-Man-Up just doesnt work with the guys we have now.

But with Talib in place he makes everything else work.. and work dare I say it, really well.

So my numbers for Talib

Bargain at 6-7 million
Great value at 8 million
Good value at 9-10 million
Ok/average value at 11 million

- I'd easily pull the trigger at 9 or less.
- Think about alternatives if he requires 10, but more than likely would sign him for that.
- Strongly look at alternatives at 11 million, but again would probably end up signing him.
- Soul search at 12 and really work at finding an alternative
- At 13 million, Id rather pay/trade for an elite CB without health concerns

At 9+m, you're probably not going to add any other pieces to improve the defense. So if Talib's hip slips again in the playoffs, you're in the same boat you've been in the past two years. If you instead take that money and add two or three pieces to solidify other areas, you're in better shape to recover from inevitable injuries.

 

[Brady_to_Moss]

How much would I pay? 5 mill a year. How much will he get? 7-9 a year. He isn't there when we need him. And it always hurts us. Getting sick of it

He will get hurt again next year and not play a few games..probably down the stretch

 

[varjao]

Why would Talib take that deal?

That's up to him, I'm looking from a Pats perspective that would be a good money for a guy who plays 12 games in a season, dragging himself on the field in some of those games.

Why pay big money for a guy with a chronic bone issue, you can protect the franchise with clauses and everything, when it comes January I don't give a crap for the money, what matters is that he's not on the damn field.

I'm not even sure other teams would offer big money for him, it's 2 AFC games in a row letting the team down. There's always Raiders and others but a contender team? I have my questions whether they would offer much more than that. I'm not aware about the cap situation of the entire league though.

Also, there's no magic, if they don't fix that DL no one can cover forever, with a better DL I'm OK with Dennard and Ryan and keep improving the position through draft.

 

[Danger Zone]

At 9+m, you're probably not going to add any other pieces to improve the defense. So if Talib's hip slips again in the playoffs, you're in the same boat you've been in the past two years. If you instead take that money and add two or three pieces to solidify other areas, you're in better shape to recover from inevitable injuries.

Your opinion is much closer to Belichick's team building model I admit and hence probably much closer to the number Bill has in mind than my own.

My number's are really because Ive missed having an elite/ish CB back there. Talib makes Dennard and Arrington work IMO.

 

[varjao]

Ive loved having Talib on the team.

I think he's proven that with 2nd and 3rd CBs Next-Man-Up just doesnt work with the guys we have now.

But with Talib in place he makes everything else work.. and work dare I say it, really well.

So my numbers for Talib

Steal at 5 million
Bargain at 6-7 million
Great value at 8 million
Good value at 9-10 million
Ok/average value at 11 million (grumble and shake your fist at meddlesome other teams behind closed doors)

- I'd easily pull the trigger at 9 or less.
- Think about alternatives if he requires 10, but more than likely would sign him for that.
- Strongly look at alternatives at 11 million, but again would probably end up signing him.
- Soul search at 12 and really work at finding an alternative
- At 13 million, Id rather pay/trade for an elite CB without health concerns

Let's keep the thoughts under the reality. Are you aware that we have a financial limitation?

 

[Deus Irae]

That's up to him, I'm looking from a Pats perspective that would be a good money for a guy who plays 12 games in a season, dragging himself on the field in some of those games.

Why pay big money for a guy with a chronic bone issue, you can protect the franchise with clauses and everything, when it comes January I don't give a crap for the money, what matters is that he's not on the damn field.

I'm not even sure other teams would offer big money for him, it's 2 AFC games in a row letting the team down. There's always Raiders and others but a contender team? I have my questions whether they would offer much more than that. I'm not aware about the cap situation of the entire league though.

Also, there's no magic, if they don't fix that DL no one can cover forever, with a better DL I'm OK with Dennard and Ryan and keep improving the position through draft.

1.) He was paid $5m for last year, so you're not even giving him any pay increase.

2.) There were people here claiming that he was the second best CB in the NFL last year. The Franchise tag is over $11m, and I'm willing to bet that some teams out there will be offering more than 45 cents on the CB dollar for the top 5 at the position.

Again, let's stop acting as if these players should be grateful for any ****ty offer the Patriots give them. Is it possible that Talib gets shafted again this year? Anything's possible. Is it likely that CB desperate teams will ignore the guy in FA? History indicates otherwise.


As for Dennard/Ryan, please.

 

[varjao]

I think the market for Talib will be basically the same from last off-season, high expectations, tough reality.

There were rumors about long term offers from the Pats and Redskins, unless someone prove me that with reliable quotes, I'm inclined to think that were just rumors.

NFL is the land of the non-guaranteed contracts, if you have a good offer at 27 I say take it. Betting in himself in a one year contract is risky, specially for a guy with a chronic issue. He got what was available on the table.

 

[Danger Zone]

Let's keep the thoughts under the reality. Are you aware that we have a financial limitation?

There is going to be a lot of room for varying opinions between what an elite, but injury prone CB is worth.. and what his specific value to this team is going to be.

Personally I think Talib is well-worth 7-9 million.

 

[varjao]

1.) He was paid $5m for last year, so you're not even giving him any pay increase.

2.) There were people here claiming that he was the second best CB in the NFL last year. The Franchise tag is over $11m, and I'm willing to bet that some teams out there will be offering more than 45 cents on the CB dollar for the top 5 at the position.

Again, let's stop acting as if these players should be grateful for any ****ty offer the Patriots give them. Is it possible that Talib gets shafted again this year? Anything's possible. Is it likely that CB desperate teams will ignore the guy in FA? History indicates otherwise.


As for Dennard/Ryan, please.

I believe there will be better offers than 5 Mi but not much more than that. I don't think we would be able to keep him at this price, what I'm saying is that
this would be the maximum I would offer, business only, no gratitude talking. This is the offer, you don't accept? Ok, thanks for your services.

When I analyze a job offer I don't look only the money involved but that's my rationale. Talib has his own.

What's better, 5 Mi playing in NE or 6 Mi from the Jaguars? 5 Mi playing for the Giants living in NY or 6.5 living in Cleveland or Detroit?

I would love to have him again, he's a stud, but there are proven issues, that's why I would look for a bargain, otherwise the opportunity cost becomes too high, with 7 Mi you can improve other needs like safety and DL which are more important needs IMO.

 

[Deus Irae]

I believe there will be better offers than 5 Mi but not much more than that. I don't think we would be able to keep him at this price, what I'm saying is that
this would be the maximum I would offer, business only, no gratitude talking. This is the offer, you don't accept? Ok, thanks for your services.

When I analyze a job offer I don't look only the money involved but that's my rationale. Talib has his own.

What's better, 5 Mi playing in NE or 6 Mi from the Jaguars? 5 Mi playing for the Giants living in NY or 6.5 living in Cleveland or Detroit?

I would love to have him again, he's a stud, but there are proven issues, that's why I would look for a bargain, otherwise the opportunity cost becomes too high, with 7 Mi you can improve other needs like safety and DL which are more important needs IMO.

While I'm certainly not wed to Talib (Grimes/Davis/Shields would be fine with me), it's clear that the team needs to get one of those guys. It's very likely that those 4 top(ish) shelf CBs are not going to be getting just $5 million per.

If you don't want to place an offer out, you tell the guy that you want him back, but suggest that he shop himself and come back with the offers so you can have a starting point that he knows is based in the market. It's a risk, but at least you won't have crapped all over him with your initial offer.

This team needs a CB1. That's been the case for more than 5 years, and we've seen the difference having one makes in each of the last 2 years. Losing one because you pissed him off with a lowball offer would be idiotic.

 

[Brady6]

It's the pink elephant in the room. It's the emperor without his clothes. Everybody knows it needs to be done but nobody wants to talk about it.

Aqib Talib. When he is healthy, this defense is above average in the secondary. When he's not there, it looks like a swiss cheese defense. So how much is it worth to keep a #1 corner in New England? A guy who has proven himself in our system.

Tough question, I open the discussion to my fellow Patriots fans. I'll start with observing that Deangelo Hall recently signed a 4 year 20 million dollar extension with the Washington Redskins. That's 5m per season for one team's starting CB. However, it is reasonable for Talib to argue that he is better and more talented than Hall. But it does set a starting point for the market.

That being said here would be my proposal to Talib's agent - 3 years/21 million dollars with health based and playoff incentives. That is he needs to stay healthy to get paid. And if he performs to an all-pro level, he will get bonuses for top play. Fair deal? Too much, too little? You decide! How much would you PAY to keep Talib on the Patriots?

The max deal I would give Talib is 3 years for $19.5 million. He is soon to be 29 years old and with his hip problems, I am not interested in seeing what he looks like when he is 32 year or older.

 

[Brady6]

Top 50 CBs per over the cap –

1. Darrelle Revis-$16,000,000 -APY
2. Champ Bailey-$10,625,000 -APY
3. Brandon Carr-$10,020,000 -APY
4. Cortland Finnegan-$10,000,000 -APY
5. Leon Hall-$9,750,000 -APY
6. Johnathan Joseph-$9,750,000 -APY
7. Brandon Flowers-$9,750,000 -APY
8. Jason McCourty-$8,608,000 -APY
9. Lardarius Webb-$8,333,333 -APY
10. Tramon Williams-$8,250,000 -APY
11. Joe Haden-$8,011,348 -APY
12. Antonio Cromartie-$8,000,000 -APY
13. Carlos Rogers-$7,325,000 -APY
14. Ike Taylor-$7,000,000 -APY
15. Charles Tillman-$6,166,667 -APY
16. Cary Williams-$5,666,667 -APY
17. Tim Jennings-$5,600,000 -APY
18. Sean Smith-$5,500,000 -APY
19. Brent Grimes-$5,500,000 -APY
20. Dimitri Patterson-$5,350,000 -APY
21. Jabari Greer-$5,275,000 -APY
22. Keenan Lewis-$5,110,000 -APY
23. Orlando Scandrick-$5,000,000 -APY
24. Aqib Talib-$5,000,000 -APY
25. Derek Cox-$5,000,000 -APY
26. Dominique Rodgers-Cromartie-$5,000,000 -APY
27. Chris Houston-$5,000,000 -APY
28. Asante Samuel-$4,900,000 -APY
29. Greg Toler-$4,750,000 -APY
30. Patrick Peterson-$4,607,375 -APY
31. Dunta Robinson-$4,600,000 -APY
32. Josh Wilson-$4,500,000 -APY
33. Leodis McKelvin-$4,250,000 -APY
34. Morris Claiborne-$4,066,126 -APY
35. Corey Webster-$4,000,000 -APY
36. Kyle Arrington-$4,000,000 -APY
37. Tramaine Brock-$3,500,000 -APY
38. Jerraud Powers-$3,500,000 -APY
39. Dee Milliner-$3,165,275 -APY
40. Tarell Brown-$3,037,501 -APY
41. Stephon Gilmore-$3,021,038 -APY
42. Kareem Jackson-$2,704,000 -APY
43. Bradley Fletcher-$2,625,000 -APY
44. DJ Hayden-$2,580,925 -APY
45. Terence Newman-$2,500,000 -APY
46. Vontae Davis-$2,245,000 -APY
47. Dre Kirkpatrick-$2,155,749 -APY
48. Prince Amukamara-$2,045,225 -APY
49. Desmond Trufant-$2,041,524 -APY
50. Sam Shields-$2,023,000 -APY

 

[mayoclinic]

The max deal I would give Talib is 3 years for $19.5 million. He is soon to be 29 years old and with his hip problems, I am not interested in seeing what he looks like when he is 32 year or older.

FWIW, Talib just turned 28 last week (February 13). He won't turn 29 for another 359 days, and wouldn't turn 32 until after a 4 year deal has expired.