How much would you pay to keep Talib?

[Deus Irae]

Looking at the quotes in your signature, I have to assume you believe that who the majority is doesn't matter. My point is that both extremes exist, and in enough quantity on each side that I don't think it matters who has greater numbers. The truth is in the middle, or off to the side entirely. Just because there are more idiots blaming the player doesn't mean the idiots blaming the team are right.

When someone uses an entire large group in their wording (i.e. Patfans.com), the general reality is that they're referring to a majority, often a large enough majority that the point is obvious, unless they specify an entirety (i.e. "ALL" of Patsfans). You know this, and my posts were clearly reflective of that position. Why play the word games?

Also, claiming that the truth is in the middle is sheer nonsense. You know that too, which is likely the reason why you're looking for the 'moral' equivalence.

 

[ATippett56]

Top 50 CBs per over the cap –

1. Darrelle Revis-$16,000,000 -APY
2. Champ Bailey-$10,625,000 -APY
3. Brandon Carr-$10,020,000 -APY
4. Cortland Finnegan-$10,000,000 -APY
5. Leon Hall-$9,750,000 -APY
6. Johnathan Joseph-$9,750,000 -APY
7. Brandon Flowers-$9,750,000 -APY
8. Jason McCourty-$8,608,000 -APY
9. Lardarius Webb-$8,333,333 -APY
10. Tramon Williams-$8,250,000 -APY
11. Joe Haden-$8,011,348 -APY
12. Antonio Cromartie-$8,000,000 -APY
13. Carlos Rogers-$7,325,000 -APY
14. Ike Taylor-$7,000,000 -APY
15. Charles Tillman-$6,166,667 -APY
16. Cary Williams-$5,666,667 -APY
17. Tim Jennings-$5,600,000 -APY
18. Sean Smith-$5,500,000 -APY
19. Brent Grimes-$5,500,000 -APY

Aqib Talib is worth as much as Antonio Cromartie, if not more.

 

[Sicilian]

Also, claiming that the truth is in the middle is sheer nonsense.

If you honestly believe this, I don't think we're going to find common ground. My general philosophy is that very little in life is black and white, and even less so when you're observing a situation without all the inner knowledge. If you disagree that's fine, I'm not right or wrong, it's just how I view things.

I also dispute your contention that the extreme personality you displayed represents the Patsfans.com majority. They are the fringe. Not everyone who defends the team is an emotional yahoo. Some of them actually have legitimate opinions and many of them (and this may be hard to believe) are RIGHT.

 

[Deus Irae]

If you honestly believe this, I don't think we're going to find common ground. My general philosophy is that very little in life is black and white, and even less so when you're observing a situation without all the inner knowledge. If you disagree that's fine, I'm not right or wrong, it's just how I view things.

I also dispute your contention that the extreme personality you displayed represents the Patsfans.com majority. They are the fringe. Not everyone who defends the team is an emotional yahoo. Some of them actually have legitimate opinions and many of them (and this may be hard to believe) are RIGHT.

Using your argument, "Trade Brady" was the Patsfans.com position post-2008, as well as "Hell no, you don't trade Brady!" because 2-10 posters were spouting the "trade Brady" nonsense, and it's somewhere in the middle. That should be enough to tell you that your position is wrong.

Most people in the English speaking world understand the difference between "Patsfans.com" and "Every single member of Patsfans.com", so you've basically been tilting at a windmill here. It's not about how you view things. It's about you having been wrong (overbreath) in your argument and then continuing to argue from that position of error.

 

[Brady6]

Aqib Talib is worth as much as Antonio Cromartie, if not more.

Cromartie expects to be released so I would not look at him as a reference point.

Antonio Cromartie expects to be a cap casualty | New York Daily News

 

[Brady6]

Aqib Talib is worth as much as Antonio Cromartie, if not more.

Cromartie certainly had a poor season in 2013 by his standards but he has only missed one game in his career, and he has 28 interceptions and 88 pass defends in the last seven seasons. Talib over those same seven seasons has missed 35 games.

When doing your evaluation you have to account for the fact that Talib on average misses five games per regular season. What would you pay Talib for eleven regular season games is the questions that needs to be considered.

 

[ATippett56]

February 17 NFL Salary Cap Space Update - Over the Cap

 

[ATippett56]

When doing your evaluation you have to account for the fact that Talib on average misses five games per regular season. What would you pay Talib for eleven regular season games is the questions that needs to be considered.

Aqib Talib's market value will be decided by the "interested" franchises who are flush with salary cap space.

 

[Brady6]

Aqib Talib's market value will be decided by the "interested" franchises who are flush with salary cap space.

Including Talib 22 of the top 100 UFAs are DBs so teams looking for secondary help will have options.

1. Jairus Byrd
2. T.J. Ward
3. Alterraun Verner
4. Brent Grimes
5. Vontae Davis
6. Dominique Rodgers-Cromartie
7. Sam Shields
8. Captain Munnerlyn
9. Walter Thurmond
10. Donte Whitner
11. Chris Clemens
12. Tarell Brown
13. James Ihedigbo
14. Bernard Pollard
15. Louis Delmas
16. Drayton Florence
17. Charles Tillman
18. Asante Samuel
19. Corey Graham
20. Mike Mitchell
21. Antoine Bethea

I guess my question would be what did Talib do that earned him so much more than the $5.5M; we paid him during last offseason? I get that he played really well, but he also grew a year older, missed time due to an injury, and the injury once again was his hip, which draws questions about whether that is going to be a factor every season. I do not think teams will be anting up big contracts for a CB with a potentially chronic hip issue and has a history of suspensions. I could be wrong but I do not think his play was that much better this season to take him from a $5.5M for one-year player to this $8-$9M over four or five years that people are expecting. Talib had 64 career games under his belt in which he had 19 interceptions and 56 pass defends when he entered UFA in 2013, his 4 interceptions and 13 pass defends this season are not something he has never done before, he has always been this type of player. The issues that limit his value still remain and the injury concerns have been confirmed.

 

[ATippett56]

Including Talib 22 of the top 100 UFAs are DBs so teams looking for secondary help will have options.

1. Jairus Byrd
2. T.J. Ward
3. Alterraun Verner
4. Brent Grimes
5. Vontae Davis
6. Dominique Rodgers-Cromartie
7. Sam Shields
8. Captain Munnerlyn
9. Walter Thurmond
10. Donte Whitner
11. Chris Clemens
12. Tarell Brown
13. James Ihedigbo
14. Bernard Pollard
15. Louis Delmas
16. Drayton Florence
17. Charles Tillman
18. Asante Samuel
19. Corey Graham
20. Mike Mitchell
21. Antoine Bethea

I guess my question would be what did Talib do that earned him so much more than the $5.5M; we paid him during last offseason? I get that he played really well, but he also grew a year older, missed time due to an injury, and the injury once again was his hip, which draws questions about whether that is going to be a factor every season. I do not think teams will be anting up big contracts for a CB with a potentially chronic hip issue and has a history of suspensions. I could be wrong but I do not think his play was that much better this season to take him from a $5.5M for one-year player to this $8-$9M over four or five years that people are expecting. Talib had 64 career games under his belt in which he had 19 interceptions and 56 pass defends when he entered UFA in 2013, his 4 interceptions and 13 pass defends this season are not something he has never done before, he has always been this type of player. The issues that limit his value still remain and the injury concerns have been confirmed.

All it takes is one team to overlook those injury concerns, just like the New England Patriots overlooked the injury concerns when drafting Ras-I Dowling.

 

[Mack Herron]

Pats offer incentive laden deal which Kraft later claims was worth more than the deal he accepted (if he plays every game like an all pro).

 

[ATippett56]

Pats offer incentive laden deal which Kraft later claims was worth more than the deal he accepted (if he plays every game like an all pro).

Yeah.

That worked really well with Brian Waters in the second year of his contract.

 

[SalemPats]

Hall got 4 years, $17M. He got $3.25M to sign, with $2M more in guarantees, per source.

I would assume something like that or a bit more

 

[Wotan_the_Wanderer]

He's a top ten CB and should be paid like one. I'm tired of all the missed FAs and draft picks. We know already this guy can play in this system. What's the cost of blowing more draft picks or more dead salary hits when we can't find his replacement?

3yrs, $26M. Get it done, BB!

 

[PatsWickedPissah]

How much would I pay to keep Talib?
Easy
I'd pay $20 per year, 5 years
Now if all 60,000 seats would do the same, plus the greater number of non-ticket holding fans who follow the team, we'd have a multi-million dollar per year deal with no cap hit!
Party Pooper Jets Fan (Heh!) Goddell would step in and kill the deal though.

 

[Joker]

yeah but a broke down beat up CB ain't worth eleventy eight cents man...

 

[Tunescribe]

How much would I pay to keep Talib?
Easy
I'd pay $20 per year, 5 years
Now if all 60,000 seats would do the same, plus the greater number of non-ticket holding fans who follow the team, we'd have a multi-million dollar per year deal with no cap hit!
Party Pooper Jets Fan (Heh!) Goddell would step in and kill the deal though.

I think you're on to something. This has the makings of Ultimate Fantasy Football -- where fans pay for who they want on their favorite team. (Let's just hope Herr Goodell doesn't catch wind of it.)

 

[Ring 6]

I'd rather go 4 years at 6 million per with 500k bonuses in each year for #of games played.

the biggest knock on him is that he has missed some key games, and because of that I cant see the team giving north of 6 million per year.

3/18 isnt going to get it done as this could be his last contract, but 4/24 might tempt him a bit even though contracts are not guaranteed and as an added bonus bring blount back at 1.5 per year. Give talib his best friend, and an okay contract.

I don't think adding a 4th year at 6 mill to a 3/18 makes it any more attractive to Talib. There is no guarantee. He only gets that year if he is worth more than that which would mean he gets another 3-4 year deal at that point with a fresh new signing bonus.
He really gains nothing from that 4th year, only the team does.

 

[Ring 6]

Cromartie certainly had a poor season in 2013 by his standards but he has only missed one game in his career, and he has 28 interceptions and 88 pass defends in the last seven seasons. Talib over those same seven seasons has missed 35 games.

When doing your evaluation you have to account for the fact that Talib on average misses five games per regular season. What would you pay Talib for eleven regular season games is the questions that needs to be considered.

What are you talking about? Talib has missed 19 games in 6 seasons.
Cromartie cannot hold Talibs jockstrap.

 

[Brady6]

What are you talking about? Talib has missed 19 games in 6 seasons.
Cromartie cannot hold Talibs jockstrap.

That is my error I miscalculated and counted the Tampa and Patriots seasons as 2.