How long do you think RG3 will last in the NFL?

[Tunescribe]

Very perceptive. I picked up on the same strategy. Stall the diagnosis until the first wave of critics gets their best shot in, distract critics by focusing on alternate scenarios concerning exactly when injuries occurred, then allow worst casers to create atmosphere to the point that best case scenario leaks lead positive thinkers to develop the dodged a bullit mentality.

Except that the diagnosis won't be known until after today's surgery, which I doubt was delayed for PR purposes. To suggest that all the hyperventilation around this injury was strategically managed by the Redskins beyond Shanahan and team doctors stating (and restating) their rationale behind playing him is a bit silly.

 

[chasa]

Something that is going to be obnoxious next year is the push for RG3 to be comeback player of the year.

Nothing irritates me more then a player who misses no games having surgery during the offseason and getting an award for it the next year.

 

[PatsWickedPissah]

Something that is going to be obnoxious next year is the push for RG3 to be comeback player of the year.

Nothing irritates me more then a player who misses no games having surgery during the offseason and getting an award for it the next year.

Point is moot.
He'll miss games.

 

[PatriotSeven]

The LCL sprain and how they managed that was key. They failed to. That was likely amenable to healing on it's own given time to. But they didn't. And it being even stretched because of it's effect on stability made it ripe to set up a perfect storm situation where both it and shortly thereafter the ACL blew out altogether. The more common MCL injuries heal faster and impact ACL slightly less dramatically from an acute structural stability standpoint, yet guys routinely miss a couple of weeks and/or are limited in ways this kid never was. The way Cousin's performed in relief should have given Shanny both opportunity and pause on rushing this kid back. He took the cowards way out all around.

Well for that you have to take the doctor's word and thus also credit him with the blame if it was more serious than what we have been told. He was the one who assured RG3 would be ok after the original sprain, and honestly I felt, while limited he was ok the previous 2 games and was ok for most of that first quarter. But the more I look at it, the more I think that fall in the first quarter, along with another play where he kind of rolled over his legs and knees beforehand did him in.

More importantly, whether or not he would have been taken out of the game, he'd probably still be having surgery right now because of that play.

Also, too many people want to hang Shanahan but RG3 bears some of the responsibility too. He wasn't too happy on seeing Cousins out there winning games and based on his comments after the game, I have no doubt he also wasn't entirely honest with the staff either on how he was and probably really pushed Shanahan into playing him.

We had a report a few weeks ago about Tebow supposedly convincing Ryan to play him despite his injury when he suffered those broken ribs. Coaches can get attached and blinded by their players too and players do have a level of influence and say as well.

When it's all said and done, RG3 knew better than anyone else how his knee was. Not even a doctor can tell just by looking at it. He also should have had the maturity to take care of his health rather than the bravado to be a warrior or let himself succumb to fears of losing his job.

Just an unfortunate set of circumstances when it's all said and done, but I don't think 1 person is to blame. This is football.

 

[Deus Irae]

Except that the diagnosis won't be known until after today's surgery, which I doubt was delayed for PR purposes. To suggest that all the hyperventilation around this injury was strategically managed by the Redskins beyond Shanahan and team doctors stating (and restating) their rationale behind playing him is a bit silly.

Even if you take what's being said as gospel, Shanahan still needs to be fired. The doctors aren't seeing the 'patient', the lynchpin of my franchise for the next 10-15 years if I'm lucky, because he's avoiding them and running back onto the field, and the head coach doesn't call the timeout to force the player to get looked at before it's too late?

As the owner of that franchise, I'd fire the HC for that level of incompetence. The lies in the press conference would just be gravy.

 

[Bella*chick]

I'm not saying RG3 is entirely blameless but can you imagine TB12 asking to come out? Cuz I can't. As for fear of losing his job it happens all the time. It's a valid fear.

 

[Bella*chick]

So RG2 tweeted that his son's ACL was intact but the patella graft had torn and they are replacing the whole ACL because it needed to be stronger.

I know nothing about knee stuff, what do you guys think?

 

[BradyFTW!]

Well for that you have to take the doctor's word and thus also credit him with the blame if it was more serious than what we have been told. He was the one who assured RG3 would be ok after the original sprain, and honestly I felt, while limited he was ok the previous 2 games and was ok for most of that first quarter. But the more I look at it, the more I think that fall in the first quarter, along with another play where he kind of rolled over his legs and knees beforehand did him in.

More importantly, whether or not he would have been taken out of the game, he'd probably still be having surgery right now because of that play.

Also, too many people want to hang Shanahan but RG3 bears some of the responsibility too. He wasn't too happy on seeing Cousins out there winning games and based on his comments after the game, I have no doubt he also wasn't entirely honest with the staff either on how he was and probably really pushed Shanahan into playing him.

We had a report a few weeks ago about Tebow supposedly convincing Ryan to play him despite his injury when he suffered those broken ribs. Coaches can get attached and blinded by their players too and players do have a level of influence and say as well.

When it's all said and done, RG3 knew better than anyone else how his knee was. Not even a doctor can tell just by looking at it. He also should have had the maturity to take care of his health rather than the bravado to be a warrior or let himself succumb to fears of losing his job.

Just an unfortunate set of circumstances when it's all said and done, but I don't think 1 person is to blame. This is football.

I'm sure you're right re: Griffin not being forthcoming, but it's the coach's job to assume that that's going to happen. Very few players are going to self-report their injuries and take themselves out of the game. A good (or even half-decent) coach knows that you don't let a guy in his condition on the field, and if he doesn't like it, then too bad, because it's for his own good.

I think that Shanahan was wiling to let Griffin make the call for himself because a) it took the decision off of his shoulders, and he thought that that would shield him from blame if things did go wrong, and b) he was banking on luck, that the brace would work, Griffin's knee would hold up well enough, and any ill effects would only be felt down the line, maybe 5+ years from now, in ways that couldn't be definitively traced back to his boneheaded decision.

At the risk of acting like an armchair psychologist, I think Shanahan did this risk because he really, really wants to stay relevant. His SB wins were 15 years ago, and he's no longer considered a top-tier coach by many. Fittingly, the decision to leave Griffin in there will probably end up being a major black mark on his legacy when it's all said and done.

The series of decisions that led him here have revealed him to be a coward and a ****ty coach.

 

[MoLewisrocks]

Except that the diagnosis won't be known until after today's surgery, which I doubt was delayed for PR purposes. To suggest that all the hyperventilation around this injury was strategically managed by the Redskins beyond Shanahan and team doctors stating (and restating) their rationale behind playing him is a bit silly.

Any damage to ACL necessitates replacement in pro athletes. Partial tears in mere mortals can at least be given time to heal. And repairs of fraying can be made (trims). And for most of us what we used to call in the horse breeding business broodmare sound is sufficient. Most just plain folks couldn't endure the months of intensive and excruciating therapy these guys have to - if it was even available to them which is is not. His knee is central to his ability to earn a living as a pro athlete.

As one mediot tweeted a while ago we are somehow supposed to believe that nothing would be known until they got in there while his dad was admitting last night that they knew exactly what they were facing, a torn LCL that had to be replaced and a damaged and weakened ACL that would also have to be replaced (because you don't repair them in athletes).

 

[TruthSeeker]

Ditto. And don't think this revelation wasn't leaked after most of the east coast was unconscious for no reason...

Please, let me have anything to avoid the typical hysteria any news (or even non-news) seems to generate about most any topic. Let's have all announcements made at 3:00 a.m.

 

[PatriotSeven]

I'm not saying RG3 is entirely blameless but can you imagine TB12 asking to come out? Cuz I can't. As for fear of losing his job it happens all the time. It's a valid fear.

If he was as hurt as bad as that and his arm was so bad he couldn't throw an accurate pass? Honestly, yes I can. No doubt in my mind. Brady's above proving "he's tough" and would know he's ineffective and hurting his team. Brady's the biggest team player I know.

 

[Bella*chick]

If he was as hurt as bad as that and his arm was so bad he couldn't throw an accurate pass? Honestly, yes I can. No doubt in my mind. Brady's above proving "he's tough" and would know he's ineffective and hurting his team. Brady's the biggest team player I know.

It would never come to that. Our coaches would get to him before he had to yank himself if it was that obvious. I just think Shanahan really wanted a playoff win and made a horrible decision.

 

[MoLewisrocks]

So RG2 tweeted that his son's ACL was intact but the patella graft had torn and they are replacing the whole ACL because it needed to be stronger.

I know nothing about knee stuff, what do you guys think?

He had an LCL replacement/reconstruction and an ACL replacement/reconstruction. That was going to be a given if there was any structural damage to either. They knew this at the latest last night when dad spilled the beans to Mort.

It's back to square one for RGIII only this time with the complication of a reconstructed LCL and those can take longer to rehab than the ACL and in tandem the dual rehab is critical and more complicated. ACL/MCL (inner tendon vs. outer one) combos are more frequent and the MCL heals faster which is why some docs still prefer to wait on them and strengthen the remaining knee stability ligaments before undertaking the ACL. LCL's alone can take 8-12 months to heal. AD was as you indicated a genetic freak in that the overall condition of his inner knee was pristine by orthopedic standards. And it took him 9 months to begin his comeback player of the year drive recovering from a less complicated injury.

 

[Spiral]

One other reason for pessimism is that most injuries to right-handed QBs are on their left knee. If he ends up with someone caving in his front knee, he will have issues (and maybe braces) on both knees.

Anyone else wonder why Dr. Andrews was on the sidelines during these games? He's not the "team doctor" type who's at every game. My guess is that Snyder didn't trust the team's normal medical staff or his coaching staff.

 

[MoLewisrocks]

If he was as hurt as bad as that and his arm was so bad he couldn't throw an accurate pass? Honestly, yes I can. No doubt in my mind. Brady's above proving "he's tough" and would know he's ineffective and hurting his team. Brady's the biggest team player I know.

Brady is a 35 year old grown man who has 3 rings and 3 kids and has been to 5 super bowls and undergone numerous surgical procedures as well as contract restructures and extensions. RGIII even with a prior ACL reconstruction under his belt is a 22 year old NFL rookie man child driven to prove himself at the next level and man childs tend to believe they are invincible until repeatedly proven otherwise.

 

[Kontradiction]

Let me clarify: by saying the jury's still out, I meant to suggest it's doubtful that general style of play has a solid future in the league. It might survive on a limited basis as part of an offensive package in the red zone, for instance, or in limited down-and-distance situations. But as an every-down system, I absolutely agree that it'll physically ruin every quarterback sooner than later.

Yep. This isn't the first time the NFL has seen a form of the option offense like the read option. Every team up to the 2004 Falcons that has tried it has seen their quarterback sustain injuries and the offensive system eventually go the way of the dinosaur.

 

[MoLewisrocks]

If he was as hurt as bad as that and his arm was so bad he couldn't throw an accurate pass? Honestly, yes I can. No doubt in my mind. Brady's above proving "he's tough" and would know he's ineffective and hurting his team. Brady's the biggest team player I know.

He is now but he wasn't necessarily in 2001-02. He wanted to come back into the AFCC game in Pittsburgh. Don't kid yourself he didn't see the dream potentially turning into his worst nightmare. He'd taken a toradol shot per Felger and gotten it wrapped, but Belichick chose not to reinsert him although had Bingo not stepped up yet again and Drew not lucked out on a couple of plays he might have. Bill was trusting the rest of his guys and Slash to carry the day allowing Brady to more effectively live to fight another, even more significant battle still looming on the horizen. One he knew he had little chance of winning without him. Shanny had another player on deck who had already been battle tested and carried the day. Should have inserted him immediately after that sideline hit dramatically hobbled the guy he'd need to carry the day going forward absent a 14 point lead. But the panic driven win now mentality killed him.

 

[Bella*chick]

He is now but he wasn't necessarily in 2001-02. He wanted to come back into the AFCC game in Pittsburgh. Don't kid yourself he didn't see the dream potentially turning into his worst nightmare. He'd taken a toradol shot per Felger and gotten it wrapped, but Belichick chose not to reinsert him although had Bingo not stepped up yet again and Drew not lucked out on a couple of plays he might have. Bill was trusting the rest of his guys and Slash to carry the day allowing Brady to more effectively live to fight another, even more significant battle still looming on the horizen. One he knew he had little chance of winning without him. Shanny had another player on deck who had already been battle tested and carried the day. Should have inserted him immediately after that sideline hit dramatically hobbled the guy he'd need to carry the day going forward absent a 14 point lead. But the panic driven win now mentality killed him.

Perfect example, Mo. And how many times have I heard Brady say, "You NEVER want to see someone else doing your job?"

I just cannot imagine any player (except maybe LdT and Jay Cutler) doing it. And they got labelled as soft wussies. I think that players want to play if they can stand and move around. They need others to tell them "Enough" and that is what a competent coach is for.

 

[PatriotSeven]

Brady is a 35 year old grown man who has 3 rings and 3 kids and has been to 5 super bowls and undergone numerous surgical procedures as well as contract restructures and extensions. RGIII even with a prior ACL reconstruction under his belt is a 22 year old NFL rookie man child driven to prove himself at the next level and man childs tend to believe they are invincible until repeatedly proven otherwise.

Honestly I think Brady's always been like this for the most part. I think it's just in his nature. He doesn't have to be the hero all the time in the eye of public opinion.

Brady has been the example for what it means to be an elite NFL QB and leader for like the past decade. The fact so few seems to really emulate it when it's been there for so long not only works out in our favor but also says something about how hard it must be to do that. When Ray Lewis talked about Brady's sacrifice being one of the reasons he is who he is, and how a lot of guys are not willing to do that, I believe one of the things included in that is his ability to not give in to that superstar/hero lifestyle. He has it, but he never acts like it publicly and I truly believe it is a HARD thing to do. When the entire world wants to make you their hero it must be really freaking hard to not get sucked into and give into that and remain level headed and realize you are still a "normal" human being. In some aspects I think Brady's image suffered in the short term, perfect example being how often he is overlooked for MVP considerations, and whatnot, but I think long term, it will pay off. And it's paying off for the team right now.

Even Manning, as good a dude as he is, has a bit of an ego imo and the Colts franchise suffered because of it. They wanted it to be all about Manning and the offense, and very little was put on the defense. He actually got lucky to end up with John Fox who is a very defensive minded coach and may actually end up helping his career in the end.

The difference I think is that if Bill asks next season for Tom to go back to being a game manager because they want to run the ball and make it more about the defense, I think he would and be 100% on board with it. Because I always felt Tom's ultimate goal truly was the team winning. A lot of guys say it, with Tom I believe it. I see it. As a starting quarterback, there's a big difference between believing the quarterback position is the most important part of the team, and the quarterback, yourself, is the most important person on the team. I think Tom believes the position is the most important part, and he just runs it, wanting to be the best man for the job. There is a difference. And it is humbling if you think about it from that perspective. For example does anyone think Bret Farve would have been willing to do something like this? Even Ben cried and moaned when they wanted to change their offense last year and I truly felt it would be in his advantage.

The only guy I see close to Tom right now is Rodgers and before that Montana. Of course it should be noted Rodgers, Tom and Montana were not top draft picks. And they're all introverts if you ask me. Go figure...

 

[VJCPatriot]

mobile qbs tend to have shorter shelf lives. i mean just look at vick, he battles with injuries all the time because he gets hit more. rg3 has a very promising start to his career. but he might never achieve the same burst he originally had after surgery. hoping the best for the young man, but he is definitely going to take his lumps as a mobile qb and his career will be shortened because of it.

The only guy I see close to Tom right now is Rodgers and before that Montana. Of course it should be noted Rodgers, Tom and Montana were not top draft picks. And they're all introverts if you ask me. Go figure...

Sorry, your comparison doesn't work because Rogers was a 1st round pick. #24 overall, still an early draft choice. Montana was a 3rd round pick btw, #82 overall. Same round as Mallett who was taken #74 overall which is actually earlier than Joe Cool. Brady has them all beat by a longshot as the #199 draft pick in the 6th round.