How Good Is Our Secondary?

[maust]

It is early, but there's reason for concern, especially if Ras-I Gonzalez continues on the path that he's on.

 

[Pape]

I think you misunderstood me, unfortunately I just don't think he's very good and not much upside. I hope I'm wrong but I think he's a borderline starter and that's probably his ceiling.

Ahhh... I see now ... I have faith...

 

[mayoclinic]

Better than the 2011 secondary.

Not as good as the 2014 secondary.

 

[mgteich]

Without Gonzo, you have to give a bottom tier ranking based on what we've seen so far. With Gonzo, they improve dramatically, certainly to above average.

reasonable
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I guess my issue is that Vrabel went into the off-season with a secondary with injury histories to its #1, #3 and #4 CB, with no one else competing other than Practice Suad players and special teamers (Dial and Bolden). He replaced the #2 and added no one to even compete for reps. Isn't this just having Gonzo, Davis, Jones and Austin and pray for no injuries (and for Austin to step up as a player?

Cap and others have been addressing this issue since at least the middle of last year.

We have a top 5 secondary as long as everyone is healthy. Were we so wrong as to want to add another CB or trade for one even now?

 

[DoubleDeluxe]

reasonable
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I guess my issue is that Vrabel went into the off-season with a secondary with injury histories to its #1, #3 and #4 CB, with no one else competing other than Practice Suad players and special teamers (Dial and Bolden). He replaced the #2 and added no one to even compete for reps. Isn't this just having Gonzo, Davis, Jones and Austin and pray for no injuries (and for Austin to step up as a player?

Cap and others have been addressing this issue since at least the middle of last year.

We have a top 5 secondary as long as everyone is healthy. Were we so wrong as to want to add another CB or trade for one even now?

I wouldn’t give up draft capital, we need our picks. I wouldn’t mind seeing Gilmore signed for this year however.

 

[n1997y]

"Don't post anything unless it’s positive."

Why is being balanced is out of the question?

 

[n1997y]

God were catty today.

Of course the 2011 Patriots weren’t a one man team, but that defense was historically bad. Put a replacement level player at QB, they go 6-10.

Put a replacement QB in for most teams and they’re struggling to go 6-10

 

[FoxboroFan23]

Any unit will look bad without their best player.

Pats are 19th in ppg but if you take out the pr TD they are 14th. Not bad for a defense integrating a lot of new players while missing what might be their best defensive player.

Secondary will be fine when Gonzo comes back. Safeties could use more talent but I'm not worried about CB.

 

[Thelonious]

He's more like Polonius than Thelonious.

Get thee to a nunnery.

 

[Hugepatsfan]

Outside CB duo is amongst the leagues best on paper, but the top guy being out obviously neuters that so far

Marcus Jones is a solid slot CB

The safeties are terrible

The depth is weak

Playing without Gonzo like they have been, it’s a weak unit. But when he’s back out there with Davis, that man coverage duo is probably the biggest strength of their team on a down to down basis (inside pass rush is up there too but weakness vs the run has more of a down to down impact at that spot). Rest of the secondary is still weak though.

 

[patfanken]

I wouldn’t give up draft capital, we need our picks. I wouldn’t mind seeing Gilmore signed for this year however.

Actually that sounds like a good idea. And if the Pats look like they might be a playoff team, Gilmore might come back if we slightly overpay. But if I'm him, I'm waiting until a championship contender has an injury. At his stage of his career he needs to be looking at chances at rings.

BUT... if he came for a few extra dollars that we happen to have available this year, I'd want him back as a FS type player big enough who you could put man to man on a one of those offensive TE's and erase on a game to game basis

Unfortunately, it's unlikely to happen.

 

[PatsFan2]

I need to see them with Gonzalez first. S's aren't set yet.

Yeah with a 90% Gonzo.

 

[1960Pats]

You mean the Ras-I comment? Yeah, that's a bit off. He isn't in Ras-I territory.

 

[patfanken]

There are some odd mathematics that come into play when you are talking about the secondary. Think about it. The absolute Mendoza line for NFL QB's is 60%. I bet the number of games where a QB throws for less than a 60% completion percentage is a dozen.

SO, on a board where fans can turn on a player irrevocably based on a single play it is hard to see how you can think they can be viewed as being even somewhat successful when even mediocre to poor QB's are completing a minimum of 6 of every 10 passes.

Think about how sophisticated passing offenses are these days. The formations, the motions, etc. Think about how good the receivers are. How big, strong, tall, fast, and quick they are. Christ, just think about the equipmen. I've always felt if they ever wanted to put back some equality back between the offense and the defense sides, just take away the receivers' gloves. Even I could catch with those on.

Please keep some of this in mind the next time you want to complain.

It's kind of

 

[maust]

You mean the Ras-I comment? Yeah, that's a bit off. He isn't in Ras-I territory.

I figured you were just having (hyperbolic) fun with it so I was doing the same back.

 

[Wozzy]

Why are we just blaming the secondary? Linebackers have stunk in zone as well, TE’s and RB’s have been feasting on us.

Fix the mental mistakes and scheme flaws in zone coverage and improve. It’s less of a “talent” problem and more of an execution problem.

 

[BTTA]

You mean the Ras-I comment? Yeah, that's a bit off. He isn't in Ras-I territory.

The 2nd pick in the second round is a 50/50 proposition in terms of a player becoming a regular starter. Dowling had two bad injuries, deeply torn tissue in the hip and to the quad, within a year of each other. He was average speed and quickness for the position before that. He tried to overcome the injuries, finally retiring after 5 years in the league. He's now a defensive coordinator in college. Why is he such a symbol to Pats fans?

 

[Nunchucks]

They are currently terrible. Its more than spotty cb play. Its the safeties too. i think there is enough talent, it might be the coaching. I hope it gets better. Gilmore will help.

 

[One-If-By-Sea]

Put a replacement QB in for most teams and they’re struggling to go 6-10

6-11? 7-10?

 

[PScottman]

this can be fixed with better coaching and execution.

This can be fixed with more repetitions. This is exactly what preseason football used to look like - inconsistency, mistakes, and over-reliance on individual rather than collective skill. How do you get to that hall in NY built by the guy from Pittsburgh by way of Scotland...practice.