How Belichick lost his place in posterity

[Wozzy]

We've reached peak stupidity ^, critical mass levels of dumb where analytics mean more than points.

Tell your bookie that you don't have to pay after a loss because your team had a better PFF ranking and was actually better than the team that won the game due to points... see if he doesn't break your legs.

Kids, this is why you don't eat the lead paint chips...

 

[Wozzy]

That is true only if you're talking about one game.

Football is a lot more than a one game season as I'm sure you understand. Or should.

And who did a better job on defense... the team that allowed a 50 yard drive ending in 0 points because their kicker missed a FG or the team that allowed 7 because their QB turned the ball over inside his own 20. PoInTZ aLLoWeD says the first defense did better. Right.

Since 2020 they can beat bad teams consistently, but not so much against good ones. Gee I wonder what changed...

The graphic I provided above is a twent one year sample size of Brady's defenses in relation to his peers, the best QB's of his generation.

One game... what are you smoking?

 

[signbabybrady]

Brady did a lot more to develop himself than anyone else did. That's why he became great.

Tom Brady is SHOCKED Bill Belichick is Unemployed (Source: SiriusXM) #billbelichick #nflnews #newenglandpatriots #PatriotsNation #TB12 #TomBrady #nflfootball | TB12 Nation | TB12 Nation · Original audio

Tom Brady is SHOCKED Bill Belichick is Unemployed (Source: SiriusXM) #billbelichick #nflnews #newenglandpatriots #PatriotsNation #TB12 #TomBrady #nflfootball. TB12 Nation · Original audio

www.facebook.com

 

[sb1]

The graphic I provided above is a twent one year sample size of Brady's defenses in relation to his peers, the best QB's of his generation.

One game... what are you smoking?

That was points allowed... a poor metric of measuring a defense over a season by itself as many have said already.

 

[sb1]

We've reached peak stupidity ^, critical mass levels of dumb where analytics mean more than points.

Tell your bookie that you don't have to pay after a loss because your team had a better PFF ranking and was actually better than the team that won the game due to points... see if he doesn't break your legs.

Kids, this is why you don't eat the lead paint chips...

How did the #2 ranked Patriots defense in poInTz aLLoWeD do in the playoffs in Buffalo in 2021? PoInTz aLLow3D says they're awesome so they must have had a great game.

 

[Wozzy]

That was points allowed... a poor metric of measuring a defense over a season by itself as many have said already.

Those people are fools. Point differential is how they determine wins and losses. Points is the most important stat in football.

Also you BB haters trying to rewrite history to tell us that those dynasty super bowl winning defenses weren’t very good is next level stupidity.

I’d like to see you say that to Richard Seymour, Willie McGinest or Vince Wilforks face. Hell, tell Peyton Manning that Ty Law and Rodney Harrison weren’t great players and watch him laugh in your face.

You Brady zealots are delusional… like most cult members.

 

[Wozzy]

How did the #2 ranked Patriots defense in poInTz aLLoWeD do in the playoffs in Buffalo in 2021? PoInTz aLLow3D says they're awesome so they must have had a great game.

Mac Jones was abominable after the bye week in 2021, he threw two interceptions against Buffalo in the playoffs.

Nobody in this entire thread said you could win with bad QB play. If you have to lie about what people have said, you’re probably on the losing side of the argument.

 

[sb1]

Mac Jones was abominable after the bye week in 2021, he threw two interceptions against Buffalo in the playoffs.

Nobody in this entire thread said you could win with bad QB play. If you have to lie about what people have said, you’re probably on the losing side of the argument.

Bad QB play had little to do with a defense getting completely depantsed like they did. That was all on Bill's defense. And the HC but that's a different topic.

But on the bright side that was a no doubter... at least Bill's defense didn't tease us only to come up small at the moments when it mattered most like the final Giants drives in both Super Bowl losses or made to look like clowns by Nick Foles of all people.

 

[sb1]

Those people are fools. Point differential is how they determine wins and losses. Points is the most important stat in football.

Also you BB haters trying to rewrite history to tell us that those dynasty super bowl winning defenses weren’t very good is next level stupidity.

I’d like to see you say that to Richard Seymour, Willie McGinest or Vince Wilforks face. Hell, tell Peyton Manning that Ty Law and Rodney Harrison weren’t great players and watch him laugh in your face.

You Brady zealots are delusional… like most cult members.

 

[signbabybrady]

Bad QB play had little to do with a defense getting completely depantsed like they did. That was all on Bill's defense. And the HC but that's a different topic.

But on the bright side that was a no doubter... at least Bill's defense didn't tease us only to come up small at the moments when it mattered most like the final Giants drives in both Super Bowl losses or made to look like clowns by Nick Foles of all people.

Weren't you just pointing out the impact of good QB play from Brady helping the D get top rankings? Wouldn't the inverse then also be true of Bad QB play?

 

[venecol]

38Noll and Lombardi won with largely the same teams. The biggest difference between the 'elite HC's' is the others had no free agency or cap to deal with. I don't care about the ridiculous pissing match/trolling going on here but to ignore the difficulties of maintaining a winning culture in the age of free agency and the cap is straight up ********.

This is true, but Belichick began his HC career before the cap began (1994). If you look at the years (1991-93) he coached before the cap, his record was 20-28. If you incl. the cap year (1994) in which he had his best record, he ends up with a 31-33 record. His last 4 years in NE, he ended with a 29-38 record. So before or after the cap, w/o Brady, Belichick's record is consistent. A sub .500 record.

Again, the biggest difference was having Brady at QB. Not sure why this is so controversial since Belichick himself acknowledged he would not have been as successful w/o Brady. The facts show that to be the case.

 

[venecol]

But they still had better QB's than BB did, Shula the great only won 2, who cares what their record is without a top QB if they didn't win a super bowl. Give Bill a good QB and see what he does.

I don't think that Mark Malone, David Woodley, Cliff Stoudt and Bubby Brister were better than Testaverde, Cassell, Cam, and Mac. Anyway, there's no doubt Bill excelled with the GOAT, nobody is saying he didn't. His coaching wasn't able to overcome having average and above average QBs though, in comparison to his peers. That's the point. Having Brady maintain his consistent greatness for 19 years set Belichick apart from the rest. Obviously.

 

[XLIX]

Because I never disputed coaches can do anything without players, never, not once.

BB said "it's a players league" to Gronk and his players after a championship, he told Edelman when Jules thanked him for giving him a championship "I didn't give you anything, you earned it all."

Hilarious how when I say it is a players' league, you argue with me. Then you turn around and quote Belichick saying the exact same thing.

Brady without Belichick: 1 Super Bowl Championship in 3 years.
Belichick without Brady: 1 playoff win in what is it now? 11 years? I've honestly lost track, it's that bad.

 

[HSanders]

he had tb as a starter 18 years not 19. during tb's tenure the other year his team was 11-5 without tb. then when tb wasn't playing in 2016,3-1. some people love to denigrate 08 as "they had a 16-0 team that they then lost 5 more games w/o tb". well that year had a worse defense than 07 also. guys were on their last legs and they lost their best secondary player vs. denver (rodney). you know,the brains of the back end. that team in 08 was not just tb missing. and the backup was so bad in preseason,people thought he might be cut. hadn't played in a real game since high school. 7th round pick. unexpected starter. it's honestly shameful how much people denigrate that year,and/or going 3-1 w/o tb in 2016 with 2 other guys who had never started before.

 

[venecol]

Overstated.

Debunking Brady being "carried" to Super Bowls by his defense

I found a site where you can find advanced stats on offense and defense per year with filters. One of these stats is EPA - expected points provided by defense or offense per game and per play. For offense positive EPA is good and negative EPA is bad and for defense it's the other way around...

www.patsfans.com

They aren't interested in numbers, just the perception of reality. If you repeat something enough times, people begin to believe it.

Here's another one, defensive ppg allowed during each SB playoff run by the winning team. Notice where the Pats defenses are ranked amongst all SB winners. The highest is #32 (2001) out of 58 SBs. That's below average.

 

[venecol]

Brady made those phases better, I already showed you this. You only use one defensive stat to determine your point and yet refuse to believe that a QB has a lot to do with a team giving up points or not. See 2019 Tampa and 2020 tampa with the same defense. Giving up points is a product of both sides. If the pats in any of those years they had a top 5 scoring defense had a bad offense that turned the ball over and didnt finish drives, they would in fact not be top 5.

That's why they want to ignore DVOA and EPA which takes those things into account. Their argument falls apart when you really look at the impact of each phase.

 

[venecol]

Points is the most important stat in football. Turnovers is probably second, because it most correlates to points.

As soon as they start determining wins/losses based on DVOA, some made up stat by PFF, let me know.

This is some real flat earth nonsense you're pushing here.

I read on the internet that if you drink your own urine it will cure any disease you have... you should give it a go.

You're obviously clueless. DVOA was not developed by PFF. It is you that's pushing flat earth nonsense when you fail to take into account each play that contributed to the final result and how it compares with the league average. Your ignorance is showing and your arguments are 5th grade level.

 

[venecol]

We've reached peak stupidity ^, critical mass levels of dumb where analytics mean more than points.

Tell your bookie that you don't have to pay after a loss because your team had a better PFF ranking and was actually better than the team that won the game due to points... see if he doesn't break your legs.

Kids, this is why you don't eat the lead paint chips...

Lol, it's truly amazing how dumb you are.

 

[sb1]

Weren't you just pointing out the impact of good QB play from Brady helping the D get top rankings? Wouldn't the inverse then also be true of Bad QB play?

Definitely. But in that Buffalo wild card game the defense - again, the so called #2 defense in the league - gave up TD drives of 70, 80, 81, 89, 58, 77 and 39 yards. And the 39 yard drive started with a punt coverage breakdown. It's really hard to pin that on bad QB play. Jones was by no means good but he had no real role in the Pats being blown out of the stadium that night.

Looks to me like that so called #2 defense in the league really was Number Two against good teams.

 

[sb1]

he had tb as a starter 18 years not 19. during tb's tenure the other year his team was 11-5 without tb. then when tb wasn't playing in 2016,3-1. some people love to denigrate 08 as "they had a 16-0 team that they then lost 5 more games w/o tb". well that year had a worse defense than 07 also. guys were on their last legs and they lost their best secondary player vs. denver (rodney). you know,the brains of the back end. that team in 08 was not just tb missing. and the backup was so bad in preseason,people thought he might be cut. hadn't played in a real game since high school. 7th round pick. unexpected starter. it's honestly shameful how much people denigrate that year,and/or going 3-1 w/o tb in 2016 with 2 other guys who had never started before.

They missed the playoffs because they couldn't beat good teams and they won 11 games because they didn't play many of those good teams.