How about a position by position breakdown of why the defense is struggling?

[Pacific Coast Patriot]

We need more aggression and more takeaways. Start attacking the ball in the air. Points allowed per game isn't too bad but a turnover is also worth a potential extra 7 for your team every time you get one.

After each game I tend to remember the D letting the team down. A turnover here and there and the whole perspective changes, then we'd remember how the D put the offense in position to win the game. Complimentary football.

 

[Huckleberry1]

My biggest concern is their inability to cover backs coming out of the backfield and think they may have to start using Chung to spy running backs as a hybrid safety/linebacker.

 

[aluminum seats]

now we have two young promising guys ( Van Noy and Flowers) and 3 quality backups to rest them ( Ninko, Sheard, Long)

This is a little more optimistic than is currently warranted, I think. Would agree that Flowers is promising but don't know that Van Noy deserves the designation just yet. We will see. And unfortunately, I'm not sure there's much "quality" in the 3 you list there, although there is clearly hope for there to be.

Rowe is very good IMO

Well, maybe. But I think the Pats have seemed a bit clueless with how they're handling their CB situation. Rowe showed something, but had some penalties...let the kid play. It wasn't long ago we were rejoicing over Browner's penalties just because thank god there was a defensive back playing with some aggressiveness. Work on the penalties for sure, but I'd like to see them put the guy in and see what happens. CBs need to develop confidence, and so let's see what we've got. Unless they're sure they want to go with Ryan, which doesn't appear to be the case. But they should give Rowe the chance to seize the job, IMO.

 

[Kontradiction]

I just had shoulder surgery so this won't be a long post, but it's pretty self explanatory:

1. Hicks gone so no 3 down DT and nobody demanding consistent double teams.

2. Jones gone so nobody demanding consistent double teams and no somewhat consistent edge rush.

3. Nink injury and Sheard getting exposed for what he is, which is simply a complimentary edge rusher if you have another guy on the DL that can eat up double teams.

4. Less than ideal athleticism at LB with Roberts simply being a backer on run downs. Hightower may have to move back to Mike as a result.

5. Inconsistency/personnel issues at CB2 and CB3 meaning McCourty always has to play deep and is restricted.

 

[Huckleberry1]

I just had shoulder surgery so this won't be a long post, but it's pretty self explanatory:

1. Hicks gone so no 3 down DT and nobody demanding consistent double teams.

2. Jones gone so nobody demanding consistent double teams and no somewhat consistent edge rush.

3. Nink injury and Sheard getting exposed for what he is, which is simply a complimentary edge rusher if you have another guy on the DL that can eat up double teams.

4. Less than ideal athleticism at LB with Roberts simply being a backer on run downs. Hightower may have to move back to Mike as a result.

5. Inconsistency/personnel issues at CB2 and CB3 meaning McCourty always has to play deep and is restricted.

Good breakdown,i have been thinking they might have to go to a 3-4 but the Branch suspension makes that much tougher.

Shoulder surgery is a *****, I had it in March, tore my rotator cuff all the way through and tore it in a second spot as well as tearing my bicep off in the shoulder. It's a long road but the worst of it was sleeping sitting up for six weeks, ultimately however you will be much better off, best of luck with it.

 

[patsbrasilpatriotas]

This is a little more optimistic than is currently warranted, I think. Would agree that Flowers is promising but don't know that Van Noy deserves the designation just yet. We will see. And unfortunately, I'm not sure there's much "quality" in the 3 you list there, although there is clearly hope for there to be.


Well, maybe. But I think the Pats have seemed a bit clueless with how they're handling their CB situation. Rowe showed something, but had some penalties...let the kid play. It wasn't long ago we were rejoicing over Browner's penalties just because thank god there was a defensive back playing with some aggressiveness. Work on the penalties for sure, but I'd like to see them put the guy in and see what happens. CBs need to develop confidence, and so let's see what we've got. Unless they're sure they want to go with Ryan, which doesn't appear to be the case. But they should give Rowe the chance to seize the job, IMO.

I agree with you 100%.. But i am just saying that we have good rotational guys now and we had zero before ( Andre Carter was producitve but that's it) .. If we lack one playmaker we don't need two guys to play 95-98% of the snaps anymore...

Rowe had 3 penalties if i am not mistaken... But one was a BS call...

I would rather go to next year draft with Ryan and Harmon and draft: #1 DT + #2 LB + #3.a DE #3.b LB #4 RB
We have only one need on O IMO ( If we retain our players): RG Shaq isn't terrible but he allowed 5.5 sacks if we had two Thuney's this number would drop to ONE...

 

[Ring 6]

Bend but don't break has Tom Brady bailing its ass out.

Given that assumption why would you pkay any other way then m?
Shouldn't the defense in Tom Brady's team play the style of defense that is mist likely to win WITH Tom Brady?
It's hard to argue against the logic that if you have Tom Brady you are better so taking risks only tilts the odds in the opponents favor.

 

[BaconGrundleCandy]

This isn't as simple as "scheme" imo.

We gave up 2/3 of our TD's last game in man I believe. Today's game is much more about talent than scheme, much more. At least imo.

Obviously it matters but whats really going on here is ...

1) Proper execution/communication

2) Leadership/swagger (I hate that word but we have none. 2014 defense got flagged but played with fire)

3)Auto 1st down penalties (Not enough play makers to make up for it and not enough TO's)

4) Talent.

5) Creativity as well. Our front is best served moved around a bit imo. Over use.

To expand a bit

Fortunately most of that can be fixed and thats why Im not worried about the defense, maybe a bit concerned.


Up front all our guys are run first guys. Which is great, typical Bill. However none are pass rush specialist that can just "rush the QB" that other Bill said Greg Lloyd.

Guys like Long, Sheard, Flowers, Nink dont have a variety of moves to use. Especially when they get stopped initially. Also our DT's need a break. Reminds me of when Jones and Ninko played 99% of the snaps a few years ago.

Its tough for me to get mad at Brown when hes our 2nd best run stuffer and tasked with a specific assignment. In college it was his speed to power translation that had a lot of people paying attention but Bill is asking him and Branch to really stop the run with chaos behind them.

We have to get Long, Flowers and Sheard on the field at the same time imo. If Sheard is having a brain fart and not containing, hitting inside/outside shoulder as opposed to the right technique then play him inside to get him on the field.

Teams are too comfortable and able to dictate too easy what they want to do against us. We need to give some different looks out there up front.

The linebacker position in one definitely trying to find its footing imo. Im using 54 to the best of his abilities and that means sending him to get the QB. NO ONE WANTS TO BLOCK HIM AFTER HE GETS GOING. INCLUDING LINEMEN. HES A LEGIT 265-270 & IS A SMART GUY. UNLEASH HIM.

We can move Chung around if we want but the simple fact is we dont have anyone that can cover or has shown their able too. That said, again Im attacking and tryi g to dictate. This defense is all about read and reacting instead of read and attacking.

Im looking to upgrade Chung as well. Hes come a long way but belongs in the box imo. We need a SS/Hybrid that can cover and hes not it. PFF isnt the end all be all but their another pov and have him bottom 5 I believe. Again I like him and the work hes clearly put in but its time to upgrade that spot. And theres no shortage of athletes to do so nowadays.

As for the secondary, terms like "scheme" and "system" are almost outdated. Professional sports is about getting as much talent on the field as possible and putting then in the best position to succeed.

Defense is about execution, effort and playing smart. This secondary, whether zone or man has been beat. Like I stated above we gave up 2/3 of our TD's last game in man.

Whether its Chung getting caught looking in the backfield or Butler giving a ridiculous cushion or Ryan its about execution.

Think of it this way.

Everyone gets beat but when Chara gets beat on defense it looks so much worse bc of how big he is.

Similar to getting beat in zone where communication issues, passing guys off etc can have opponents running free.

And lastly this defense needs a "moment" or "play" that brings everyone together. Theres no fire or crazy dogs running around out there. No one celebrating and if know Bill he actually wants his defense to celebrate with each other. It brings them together and lets the offense know its going to be a long day.

 

[Kontradiction]

Good breakdown,i have been thinking they might have to go to a 3-4 but the Branch suspension makes that much tougher.

Shoulder surgery us a *****, I had it in March, tore my rotator cuff all the way through and tore it in a second spot as well as tearing my bicep off in the shoulder. It's a long road but the worst of it was sleeping sitting up for six weeks, ultimately however you will be much better off, best of luck with it.

Thanks, Ivan. Yeah 30% of my labrum was torn and I had a partially torn rotator cuff. I've lived with it for a while but it worsened after I was rear ended in I-95 at a dead stop with the other driver in excess of 50 MPH. How long did it take you to regain feeling in your hand after the surgery?

 

[fightingirish595]

Im just gonna point out the D Line as a whole. They made one of the worst OLines in the leafue (Seattle) look great. Hard to win when you cant win the battle at the line.(in the playoffs against the best teams) They dont get enough push.

 

[AvocadoIceCream]

The defense in 16 years has allowed the 3rd fewest points in the NFL. You can break it down over whatever periods you want, and it is similar. Bill Belichicks defenses keep points off the board and win games, and championships.
I'm sure you are all for firing BB and bringing that aggressive big winner Rex Ryan, right?

As I said, bend don't break is smarter than you, so I don't expect you to get it.

You're so defensive and you're putting words in my mouth.

Youre wrong I'm right I'm good you're bad

 

[fightingirish595]

The Patriots were not bending and breaking in 2003 and 2004 when they won superbowls. and They certainly were not bending and breaking in 2001 against the record setting rams either. It took Mike Marts and Vermiel 3 full quarters to adjust.

 

[Ring 6]

The Patriots were not bending and breaking in 2003 and 2004 when they won superbowls. and They certainly were not bending and breaking in 2001 against the record setting rams either. It took Mike Marts and Vermiel 3 full quarters to adjust.

Yes they were. That has been the philosophy since BB got here.

 

[mgteich]

Note that none of these issues involve any stats like points or even wins.

1. No interior pass rushing DT
2. DE in flux
3. Lack of consistent CB2 play
4. Hightower & Chung not being used to their fullest
5. Conservative defensive philosophy

------------------------
1. Can't be fixed this season
2. I'd try Flowers and Van Noy next week vs. Jets. Might be our best combo
3. Can't be fixed but sticking to Ryan is the smart choice.
4. On the coaches
5. On the coaches

Enough can be fixed IMO to make this defense a solid one this season.

If Bucannon and Ward can play LB a good amount of the snaps why can't Chung, especially considering we also have Harmon at safety? (I'm aware run defense is sacrificed)

I want Hightower rushing the passer more often and Chung covering RBs/TEs.

 

[Deus Irae]

Given that assumption why would you pkay any other way then m?

Because Brady can't be near-perfect every game.

 

[Deus Irae]

Thanks, Ivan. Yeah 30% of my labrum was torn and I had a partially torn rotator cuff.

Kontra is Jay Cutler!

 

[Deus Irae]

The Patriots were not bending and breaking in 2003 and 2004 when they won superbowls. and They certainly were not bending and breaking in 2001 against the record setting rams either. It took Mike Marts and Vermiel 3 full quarters to adjust.

Bend don't break has become a catch-all around here, and it's nowhere near as applicable as its users seem to think it to be.

In the early days, this team was a 2 gapping 3-4 team that was all kinds of aggressive. The idea that it was a passive "bend, don't break" system similar to what we've mostly seen in the post-2004 era is absurd.

 

[patsinthesnow]

Bend but don't break has Tom Brady bailing its ass out.

Peyton Manning .702 win percentage (11.2 - 4.8)
Tom Brady .773 win percentage (12.3 - 3.7)

Manning dragged Caldwell and Fox to the super bowl and 1 seeds.

Brady > Manning

A lot of teams would go 11-5/12-4 every season with the GOAT at QB. Why can't fans realize this and hold the defense accountable?

 

[Deus Irae]

Peyton Manning .702 win percentage (11.2 - 4.8)
Tom Brady .773 win percentage (12.3 - 3.7)

Manning dragged Caldwell and Fox to the super bowl and 1 seeds.

Brady > Manning

A lot of teams would go 11-5/12-4 every season with the GOAT at QB. Why can't fans realize this and hold the defense accountable?

Some people consider the obvious (Brady is the system) to be offensive. They get upset when you note that Brady covers for problems elsewhere, even though they know it's true.

 

[Ring 6]

Because Brady can't be near-perfect every game.

He doesn't need to be near perfect.
If you hand away points playing aggressively he might.

I think it is a certainty that when you have the goat running your offense the wisest defensively philosophy is a conservative one.