Has Tim Tebow earned a roster spot on the Patriots?

[Ironman44]

Tebow has earned a one way ticket to palooka-ville. Only in his case it'll be the evangelist talk show circuit. A lot more lucrative. Sooner this laughingstock is gone and all his "followers" with him...

OH MY GOD! THEY KILLED KENNY! - YouTube

 

[Brady6]

Re: Re: Has Tim Tebow earned a roster spot on the Patriots?

Whats hilarious is you guys all debating this. He is going to be on the final roster book it, and no matter what you guys complain about its going to happen.

Also you will be surprised how they will use him to win throughout the season then all of you guys will be tuggin his junk Tebow fans.

Facts:
1. Tebow will make the team
2. Tebow will be #2 backup sometimes this season
3. Tebow will be the successor to Brady and have much success

I hope that you're not driving a car in your current state.

The reason you all debate it is because you know deep down its true and you hate it.

This statement reminds me of the kids who dyed their hair blue or green in high school and when the other kids told them it looked bad they ignored the reality that blue and green hair does in fact look bad, and instead said they just say that because they hate me.. Eventually it they were hated not because of their hair color though but instead because of their dramatics..

 

[wizwor]

I voted yes just to drive the Tebow haters nuts.

 

[Kontradiction]

Whats hilarious is you guys all debating this. He is going to be on the final roster book it, and no matter what you guys complain about its going to happen.

Also you will be surprised how they will use him to win throughout the season then all of you guys will be tuggin his junk Tebow fans.

Facts:
1. Tebow will make the team
2. Tebow will be #2 backup sometimes this season
3. Tebow will be the successor to Brady and have much success

The reason you all debate it is because you know deep down its true and you hate it.

 

[Demosthenes]

They don't. That's a fact.

But the trolls "point" certainly was disproved.


You didn't answer my question... did Big Ben and his 22 passer rating "win" Super Bowl 40? Should we give him the "win"?

Whether you like it or not sb1, QBs do "win" games in that they get the credit. Let's go through a number of examples just to illustrate.

Why isn't Marino considered the GOAT ? Because HE didn't win a SB. Why was Elway considered to be in the same company as Marino until his last 2 years ? Because HE too, didn't win a SB up to that point.

When people talk about the top QBs in the NFL right now, what do they reference ? How many rings THEY WON. Eli is considered great because HE won 2 SBs. Ben is considered great because HE too won 2 SBs.

Again, you might not like it. It might not be fair. It might not reflect what happened in the games. But it is what it is, the QB gets the credit in the end.

 

[Kontradiction]

Whether you like it or not sb1, QBs do "win" games in that they get the credit. Let's go through a number of examples just to illustrate.

Why isn't Marino considered the GOAT ? Because HE didn't win a SB. Why was Elway considered to be in the same company as Marino until his last 2 years ? Because HE too, didn't win a SB up to that point.

When people talk about the top QBs in the NFL right now, what do they reference ? How many rings THEY WON. Eli is considered great because HE won 2 SBs. Ben is considered great because HE too won 2 SBs.

Again, you might not like it. It might not be fair. It might not reflect what happened in the games. But it is what it is, the QB gets the credit in the end.

So you consider Brad Johnson and Trent Dilfer great?

 

[Ironman44]

I voted yes just to drive the Tebow haters nuts.

Its pretty much the only reason anyone has voted yes...

 

[Demosthenes]

As much as I hate to admit it the Raven's had the game won if Flacco doesn't miss a wide open Vontae Leach in the endzone or Sterling Moore doesn't dislodge the football from Lee Evans.

Those 19 points in the Superbowl don't tell the whole story. Our sieve of a D allowed the Giants to posses the football for almost 40:00 minutes. Other than points, penalties, and turnovers, TOP is one of the the most important stats in football.

And in both games when the game was on the line they allowed the opposing offense to drive right down the field. They caught 3 breaks against Baltimore, but their luck ran out against New York.

Oh, and thanks for making me relive the horror of that game.

Sorry about the reliving thing.


To me, TOP is somewhat over rated when you have a high powered offense like the Pats do. Other team takes 10 mins to drive down the field and punt, Brady comes in and scores in 2 mins. TOP is 10-2 in favor of the other team, but the score is 7-0 in favor of the Pats. Rinse, repeat.

A great example of this is the playoff game against Denver. Denver had the ball for 33:23 minutes while the Pats had it for 26:37. We all know the outcome of that game.

I've gone round and round with SB1 on this one. I don't look at total yards when rating defenses. Last I looked, the game is decided by the number of points on the scoreboard. Defenses that limit the other teams points = good. Defenses that give up lots of points = not good.

That said, great defenses will limit points AND shut down most teams at the crucial times. I definitely wouldn't say that the Pats defense was great at the end of 2011, but it was much better than many of you all give it credit for.

 

[Demosthenes]

So you consider Brad Johnson and Trent Dilfer great?

Nope, not at all. But, I, and most others would say that they each won a SB. Worst QBs to have done so, and there are many QBs who are much better who never won one, but they still won.

 

[fnordcircle]

Whats hilarious is you guys all debating this. He is going to be on the final roster book it, and no matter what you guys complain about its going to happen.

Also you will be surprised how they will use him to win throughout the season then all of you guys will be tuggin his junk Tebow fans.

Facts:
1. Tebow will make the team
2. Tebow will be #2 backup sometimes this season
3. Tebow will be the successor to Brady and have much success

The reason you all debate it is because you know deep down its true and you hate it.

 

[BrickPat]

Whats hilarious is you guys all debating this. He is going to be on the final roster book it, and no matter what you guys complain about its going to happen.

Also you will be surprised how they will use him to win throughout the season then all of you guys will be tuggin his junk Tebow fans.

Facts:
1. Tebow will make the team
2. Tebow will be #2 backup sometimes this season
3. Tebow will be the successor to Brady and have much success

The reason you all debate it is because you know deep down its true and you hate it.

Pretending is fun.

 

[Kontradiction]

Nope, not at all. But, I, and most others would say that they each won a SB. Worst QBs to have done so, and there are many QBs who are much better who never won one, but they still won.

They are the epitome of why wins aren't soley a quarterback stat. Those two teams are also excellent examples of why winning is a team thing, not a quarterback thing. Of course, one would ultimately prefer to have a good quarterback at the helm of a winning team due to the position's importance. But if winning was soley because of a quarterback, it would either be Brady or Rodgers winning the Super Bowl every season. Maybe Brees here and there too. As it stands, the two quarterbacks in the Super Bowl were Flacco and Kaepernick. Two solid, but not great quarterbacks. The reason they were in the Super Bowl was because the teams around them were very good.

Further, if you're going to use the fact that Tebow took what became a 13 win team the following season with Manning, guided them to the playoffs, and beat the Steelers as a reason for why he's a good quarterback, then you better be prepared to tell me why Brad Johnson and Trent Dilfer belong in the Hall of Fame. They won Super Bowls. Tebow won a wild card game.

 

[Demosthenes]

They are the epitome of why wins aren't soley a quarterback stat. Those two teams are also excellent examples of why winning is a team thing, not a quarterback thing. Of course, one would ultimately prefer to have a good quarterback at the helm of a winning team due to the position's importance. But if winning was soley because of a quarterback, it would either be Brady or Rodgers winning the Super Bowl every season. Maybe Brees here and there too. As it stands, the two quarterbacks in the Super Bowl were Flacco and Kaepernick. Two solid, but not great quarterbacks. The reason they were in the Super Bowl was because the teams around them were very good.

Further, if you're going to use the fact that Tebow took what became a 13 win team the following season with Manning, guided them to the playoffs, and beat the Steelers as a reason for why he's a good quarterback, then you better be prepared to tell me why Brad Johnson and Trent Dilfer belong in the Hall of Fame. They won Super Bowls. Tebow won a wild card game.

I was addressing the preposterous notion that "Quarterbacks don't win games". The simple fact is that QBs have ALWAYS gotten credit for wins, and they get the blame for losses. We all talk about how many SBs different QBs have won. We talk about what the QBs won/loss record is. We talk about how many playoff games a QB has won or lost.

Sure, when you dive in and start analyzing games to see who was largely responsible for the wins, sometimes it is the QB, sometimes it isn't. Doesn't change the fact that the QB still gets the credit.

This isn't a controversial position. If outside of this conversation I asked most Pats fans how many SB's Brady has won, most of them would say 3. Players at other positions aren't looked at the same way. They get talked about in terms of how many SB winning teams they played on.

 

[Claremonster]

You’re not much of a statistician huh? Lots of quarterbacks have won games that aren’t name Brady, in fact there has only been one quarterback with the last name Brady to win an NFL game and that is, Thomas Edward Patrick Brady Jr. born on 8/3/1977 in San Mateo, CA.

These are some others who have won games not named Brady.

Brett Favre 186
Peyton Manning 154
John Elway 148
Dan Marino 147
Tom Brady 136
Fran Tarkenton 124
Johnny Unitas 118
Joe Montana 117
Terry Bradshaw 107
Warren Moon 102
Jim Kelly 101
Drew Brees 99
Donovan McNabb 98
Dave Krieg 98
Drew Bledsoe 98
Ken Stabler 96
Phil Simms 95
Steve Young 94
Bart Starr 94
Len Dawson 94
Troy Aikman 94
Bob Griese 92
Steve McNair 91
Ken Anderson 91
Vinny Testaverde 90
Ben Roethlisberger 87
Jim Hart 87
Roman Gabriel 86
Dan Fouts 86
Roger Staubach 85
Randall Cunningham 82
John Hadl 82
Bobby Layne 81
Craig Morton 81
Kerry Collins 81
Matt Hasselbeck 80
Boomer Esiason 80
Joe Ferguson 79
Y. A. Tittle 78
Eli Manning 78
Mark Brunell 78
Joe Theismann 77
Rich Gannon 76
Steve Grogan 75
John Brodie 74
Ron Jaworski 73
Brad Johnson 72
Jim Plunkett 72
Philip Rivers 70
Jake Plummer 69

Brady had two years in his career that he either didn't play (rookie) or was injured (Matt Cassel's 11-5 year). That makes him that much more impressive!

 

[Suddyfan]

You are of course referring to that same "lousy defense" that held the NY Giants and Eli to 19 pts in the SB and held the Raves to 20pts in the AFCC ?

you cant have it both ways. if you trumpet Tim beating the #1 defense you similarly have to agree that the Pats were horrible on defense. They ranked 31st in the league.. giving up 411 YPG.

That's one thing that does drive me crazy about massive tebow fans. You shout from mount Olympus "beat the #1 defense in a playoff game" then you try and minimize how bad he looked against one of the worst defenses in the past few years.

 

[Suddyfan]

Whats hilarious is you guys all debating this. He is going to be on the final roster book it, and no matter what you guys complain about its going to happen.

Also you will be surprised how they will use him to win throughout the season then all of you guys will be tuggin his junk Tebow fans.

Facts:
1. Tebow will make the team
2. Tebow will be #2 backup sometimes this season
3. Tebow will be the successor to Brady and have much success

The reason you all debate it is because you know deep down its true and you hate it.

obvious troll is obvious

 

[Ironman44]

Cause someone had to in this insane thread .....

Skip Bayless - All He Does Is Win - Tebow Song - YouTube

 

[Demosthenes]

you cant have it both ways. if you trumpet Tim beating the #1 defense you similarly have to agree that the Pats were horrible on defense. They ranked 31st in the league.. giving up 411 YPG.

That's one thing that does drive me crazy about massive tebow fans. You shout from mount Olympus "beat the #1 defense in a playoff game" then you try and minimize how bad he looked against one of the worst defenses in the past few years.

Ummm, in 2011, the Steelers were top ranked in points allowed iirc.

 

[Kontradiction]

I was addressing the preposterous notion that "Quarterbacks don't win games". The simple fact is that QBs have ALWAYS gotten credit for wins, and they get the blame for losses. We all talk about how many SBs different QBs have won. We talk about what the QBs won/loss record is. We talk about how many playoff games a QB has won or lost.

Sure, when you dive in and start analyzing games to see who was largely responsible for the wins, sometimes it is the QB, sometimes it isn't. Doesn't change the fact that the QB still gets the credit.

This isn't a controversial position. If outside of this conversation I asked most Pats fans how many SB's Brady has won, most of them would say 3. Players at other positions aren't looked at the same way. They get talked about in terms of how many SB winning teams they played on.

Quarterbacks get credit for wins by the casual fan because they're the most recognizable position on the team. Brady won three Super Bowls when he had an excellent defense and a competent to great running game to compliment him, for example. Since the defense got old and went under reconstruction and the team placed more on his shoulders, they haven't won one. Again, if wins were all about the quarterback, there would be one of the same two teams winning the big one every year. But, based on your post, it sounds like you're largely in agreement that wins aren't all about the quarterback just judging by this sentence...

Sure, when you dive in and start analyzing games to see who was largely responsible for the wins, sometimes it is the QB, sometimes it isn't.

 

[Ironman44]

Tim Tebow Sound FX Week 14 HD - YouTube