Has Tim Tebow earned a roster spot on the Patriots?

[detpatsfan]

Mark Sanchez is better than Tim Tebow and that's it.
-- Joe Montana


I think a legend like Joe Montana ought to know what he's talking about.

I'm sorry I didn't know Montana cannot be wrong about anything. I apologize.

 

[sb1]

I'm sorry I didn't know Montana cannot be wrong about anything. I apologize.

Never said he couldn't be wrong about anything... but I would say a guy who is arguably the greatest of all time at his position certainly does have a lot of credibility when it comes to opinions about being a quarterback.

Unless you are trying to tell me you know more about who is or isn't a good QB more than an NFL legend and one of the all time greats. That is your opinion, even if it's highly unlikely to have any merit.

 

[detpatsfan]

First of all *he* didn't have a winning record, his team did. QB's do not win games, teams do.

And there is nothing about Tebow's stats that suggest he played at an elite level. Exciting to watch, no doubt. Elite? err...no.

And nobody here "hates" him.

Same team was 1-4 when Tebow took over as the starting qb. Peyton Manning, as great as he is, couldn't even win a playoff game facing an inferior team at home the following year with the same roster. Tebow beat a Steelers team that had Big Ben and superior talent in the playoffs. If it wasn't for him bumping into Belichick and Brady in Foxboro he probably makes it to the AFCG his first year as a starter.

Yeah, let's cut that guy!

 

[detpatsfan]

Never said he couldn't be wrong about anything... but I would say a guy who is arguably the greatest of all time at his position certainly does have a lot of credibility when it comes to opinions about being a quarterback.

Unless you are trying to tell me you know more about who is or isn't a good QB more than an NFL legend and one of the all time greats does. That is your opinion, even if it's highly unlikely have any merit.

Isiah Thomas is one of, if not the greatest point guard of all time yet he did a horrible job as the Knicks GM and made one terrible decision after another as a talent evaluator. Michael Jordan is the greatest player of all time he has run the Charlotte Bobcats into the ground.

Just because you played the game well doesn't mean you're all of a sudden an expert in evaluating talent.

 

[SB39]

After all, he has 4 SB rings, 6 conference championships, etc etc and I'm just a schmuck behind a computer with ill informed opinions.

Well your opinions are certainly ill-informed if you think Belichick has 4 SB rings and 6 conference championships.

(Before you respond that you are including what he did as a defensive coach or coordinator, then the actual numbers are 5 rings with 8 conference championships)

 

[PatriotReign]

Mike Vrabel hadn't played HB until he did. Seemed to work out pretty well.

Making any comparison to one of the NFL's most versatile players when Tebow hasn't done anything to prove he can be as flexible is premature. BB won't call a play unless it's been executed in practice like the Adam Vinatieri fake field goal pass. So it's extremely likely that Vrabel preformed in practice giving BB faith to call the play in a real game.

 

[Demosthenes]

Hopefully you realize I was joking. imo the Tebow fans think the patriots have an extra roster spot that they can spare for Tebow, i couldn't disagree more and think that using that spot for a 4th year project is a complete waste and detrimental to the team. i also believe that we routinely use camp and pre-season to judge whether or not a player has made the team, and it is based upon performance and debated as such, for some reason that is considered to be an unfair method for deciding whether or not tebow should be on the team. I had no problem with Tebow supporters coming to this site and didn't take any issue with them until the debate over whether he should make the team came up as cuts closed in. In all my years as patriot fan, ie...my whole life, i have never ever seen a player come in and play this bad and still have people clamoring for their presence on the team. in every other case where a player has really stunk it up their supporters have generally acknowledged that they played like hell and deserved to be cut, and that is what makes this debate the exception to the rule, as well as the presence of that player's supporters who were actually rooting against the Patriots and for their archrivals the past few years.

Here's the thing though Ivan. Most of us Tebow supporters HAVE said that he stunk it up in the preseason games and that IF those games were the only things Bill was looking at, then yes, Tebow should be cut.

BUT, Bill looks at other things as well. Bill has talked about seeing lots of improvement in Tebow in practice. IF a guy is looked at as a "developmental" player, that is the kind of thing you look for. IS he improving ? Is he picking things up ? Is he getting better day by day?


What it basically boils down to is that you and others appear to take a rather black and white approach. "He didn't look good in preseason games, he needs to be cut."

Some of us take a more measured approach and we think that Bill and Josh do as well.

At the end of the day, here's the one thing your side of the argument can't reconcile. You all saw what Tebow did in 2011 and to you all, it's proof that he's a terrible QB, or not even a QB at all.

Josh and Bill saw the same performances that you did, and they saw what happened with the Jets, yet they still released Kafka and brought Tebow in.

I don't think it's a stretch to conclude that they, Josh and Bill, see Tebow differently than you do. Otherwise, they wouldn't have signed him.

 

[sb1]

Same team was 1-4 when Tebow took over as the starting qb. Peyton Manning, as great as he is, couldn't even win a playoff game facing an inferior team at home the following year with the same roster. Tebow beat a Steelers team that had Big Ben and superior talent in the playoffs. If it wasn't for him bumping into Belichick and Brady in Foxboro he probably makes it to the AFCG his first year as a starter.

Yeah, let's cut that guy!

Yup, I forgot...it's Peyton Manning's fault that Rahim Moore fell down and let Jacoby Jones get behind him. Riiight. If that was Tim wearing Peyton Manning's shoes that day, I suspect Tebow apologists would be a lot quicker to point out that play as an excuse instead of blaming the QB... but I digress.

And Tim Tebow didn't "beat" anybody. His TEAM beat the Steelers. Why are some football fans so happy to proclaim their ignorance by insisting that wins are a QB stat and QB's win games?

And LOL @ calling the Super Bowl champs an "Inferior team"

 

[SB39]

Never said he couldn't be wrong about anything... but I would say a guy who is arguably the greatest of all time at his position certainly does have a lot of credibility when it comes to opinions about being a quarterback.

You'd be surprised if you knew just how little some of the all-time greats actually still follow the game. I'm not talking about Montana specifically since I don't know about him, but there are a lot of great old-timers who don't give 2 turds about anything happening today.

Unless you are trying to tell me you know more about who is or isn't a good QB more than an NFL legend and one of the all time greats. That is your opinion, even if it's highly unlikely to have any merit.

The "appeal to authority" logical reasoning in fallacious. What do you do when 2 all-time greats disagree on something?

 

[Triumph]

Keeping Tebow means that there will be drama if he doesnt play over Mallet who has actually made huge strides in improving as an NFL QB. I dont want to see the development of Mallet postponed because of Tebow Time.

Keeping Tebow because he can emulate a read option QB doesnt work either. Tebow is no threat to throw the football to one of his own players. Kapernick and others are dangerous because they also have a passing game to respect. The Pats may as well have one of the RBs play read option QB and use Tebows roster spot on a DB or WR.

 

[PatriotReign]

Here's the thing though Ivan. Most of us Tebow supporters HAVE said that he stunk it up in the preseason games and that IF those games were the only things Bill was looking at, then yes, Tebow should be cut.

BUT, Bill looks at other things as well. Bill has talked about seeing lots of improvement in Tebow in practice. IF a guy is looked at as a "developmental" player, that is the kind of thing you look for. IS he improving ? Is he picking things up ? Is he getting better day by day?


What it basically boils down to is that you and others appear to take a rather black and white approach. "He didn't look good in preseason games, he needs to be cut."

Some of us take a more measured approach and we think that Bill and Josh do as well.

At the end of the day, here's the one thing your side of the argument can't reconcile. You all saw what Tebow did in 2011 and to you all, it's proof that he's a terrible QB, or not even a QB at all.

Josh and Bill saw the same performances that you did, and they saw what happened with the Jets, yet they still released Kafka and brought Tebow in.

I don't think it's a stretch to conclude that they, Josh and Bill, see Tebow differently than you do. Otherwise, they wouldn't have signed him.

Kafka is about to be jettisoned from the QB needy Jag's for an UDFA who's outperformed him so that's not saying much about his talent level.

 

[sb1]

Isiah Thomas is one of, if not the greatest point guard of all time yet he did a horrible job as the Knicks GM and made one terrible decision after another as a talent evaluator. Michael Jordan is the greatest player of all time he has run the Charlotte Bobcats into the ground.

Just because you played the game well doesn't mean you're all of a sudden an expert in evaluating talent.

No it does not, but they still have a helluva lot more credibility than Joe Fan does when it comes to that. If Montana says that Mark Sanchez is better than Tebow then he has a very credible reason/s to say so.

Like for example: Tebow fans say that "Tebow beat the Steelers".... the absurd notion that a QB wins games aside... Sanchez's team won 4 road playoff games, including wins in Manning and Brady's home fields. Edge Sanchez.

 

[sb1]

You'd be surprised if you knew just how little some of the all-time greats actually still follow the game. I'm not talking about Montana specifically since I don't know about him, but there are a lot of great old-timers who don't give 2 turds about anything happening today.
The "appeal to authority" logical reasoning in fallacious. What do you do when 2 all-time greats disagree on something?

Correct me if I'm wrong but I'm pretty sure Appeal to Authority reasoning is only fallacious if the so called "Authority" is not really a legitimate authority on the subject matter.

I would say Montana is.

And like I said Montana certainly would have more credibility on the subject than Joe Average Fan would.

 

[manxman2601]

Making any comparison to one of the NFL's most versatile players when Tebow hasn't done anything to prove he can be as flexible is premature. BB won't call a play unless it's been executed in practice like the Adam Vinatieri fake field goal pass. So it's extremely likely that Vrabel preformed in practice giving BB faith to call the play in a real game.

Considering practices are now closed, we have no idea whether Tebow is practising it or not. But considering that Tebow has been practising acting as the Punt protector as an option QB, taking part in fumble drills and has made a career out of his ability as a short yardage and goalline runner, I don't think it's at all premature to suggest that type of role for Tebow personally.

 

[PatriotReign]

Keeping Tebow means that there will be drama if he doesnt play over Mallet who has actually made huge strides in improving as an NFL QB. I dont want to see the development of Mallet postponed because of Tebow Time.

Keeping Tebow because he can emulate a read option QB doesnt work either. Tebow is no threat to throw the football to one of his own players. Kapernick and others are dangerous because they also have a passing game to respect. The Pats may as well have one of the RBs play read option QB and use Tebows roster spot on a DB or WR.

Mallet may have a cannon but his accuracy hasn't improved and he constantly stares down receivers instead of going through his progressions. He still has room to improve, but I think we pick up another QB next year and try to move Mallet.

 

[sb1]

You'd be surprised if you knew just how little some of the all-time greats actually still follow the game.

Montana should have said "I couldn't care less about Tim Tebow strug-a-ling!"

 

[Demosthenes]

Never said he couldn't be wrong about anything... but I would say a guy who is arguably the greatest of all time at his position certainly does have a lot of credibility when it comes to opinions about being a quarterback.

Unless you are trying to tell me you know more about who is or isn't a good QB more than an NFL legend and one of the all time greats. That is your opinion, even if it's highly unlikely to have any merit.

I'm guessing that you didn't see the "Faces of Tebow" NFLN piece ? The one with Steve Young and some other notable QBs talking about Tebow ?

 

[Brady6]

Tom Brady regular season stats from 2000:

1 for 3 for 6 yards, 33% completion percentage 0 tds

Brady didn't do much better than Tebow. Both players were learning new offenses. Would you have cut Tom Brady too?

I think you’re being blinded by the rock hard abs on Tebow in your signature, because comparing Tom Brady as 6th round selection playing in 1 game and throwing 3 passes as rookie to Tim Tebow at this juncture in his career is the most absurd thing I have ever read a fan write in a football forum. Tebow is entering his 4th season, has played in 35 games and thrown the football 361 times to go along with 197 rushing attempts during his time in the NFL.

You can be the biggest fan in the world of Tebow and that is fine but come on, don’t throw nonsense up against the wall and hope it sticks, Brady is considered by most to be the best draft selection ever, Tebow as he currently stands would be considered to be in the top 20 of all time draft busts. In Brady’s first 3 years in the NFL he had 4188 more passing yards, 29 more touchdowns, with a 17% higher completion percentage, oh yeah he also won a Super Bowl championship during that period.

 

[detpatsfan]

No it does not, but they still have a helluva lot more credibility than Joe Fan does when it comes to that. If Montana says that Mark Sanchez is better than Tebow then he has a very credible reason/s to say so.

Like for example: Tebow fans say that "Tebow beat the Steelers".... the absurd notion that a QB wins games aside... Sanchez's team won 4 road playoff games, including wins in Manning and Brady's home fields. Edge Sanchez.

Montana and Elway hate Tebow because he does not fit the whole stereotype of a drop-back quarterback that they think you have to be to be succesful in the NFL. The fact remains Tebow did beat the Steelers. Sanchez won playoff games because Mangini's defense played extremely well and the Jets had a very good running game.

 

[sb1]

I'm guessing that you didn't see the "Faces of Tebow" NFLN piece ? The one with Steve Young and some other notable QBs talking about Tebow ?

Unfortunately no I did not... I will have to check it out when it comes on again.

Bottom line is, if a guy who may be the greatest of all time says such a thing then I am paying attention to it. Granted...that statement may have been said tongue in cheek with the intent to boost Sanchez instead of slamming Tebow...