Has Tim Tebow earned a roster spot on the Patriots?

[Demosthenes]

Don't really agree with the first point and unless there's a Welker injury I don't see any reason to think the latter will come to fruition either...

dead man walking

You can "Dead man walking" all you want Ivan. Fact of the matter is that thoughts about Welker are split in the Pats community from what I've seen and there are vast differences of opinion wrt him.

My position is that while he showed versatility while with the Phins, he didn't jump out and the page or give any indication that he'd be one of the most productive receivers in the NFL.

Go look at this numbers with Miami. They pale in comparison to the kinds of stats he put up here. Had he remained in Miami or gone to most other teams, he wouldn't have the status or acclaim that he has now.

In short, the Pats and Brady MADE Welker. This isn't to say that he's a talentless hack, by any means. He's very good at what he does. But his "greatness" came from playing here.

 

[PatsDeb]

You're probably right, but Tebow's problem is he can't read defenses quickly and he can't throw accurately. That doesn't mean he doesn't know which plays the Pats plan to run against the Bills and Jets and which personnel groupings they plan to use. If neither Sanchez nor the rookie can go for a few weeks, wouldn't Tebow be the best stop-gap for the Jets? The Jets and the Pats have used such gamesmanship before, so why wouldn't they use it again?

How could I forget that the Bills have done it to us too, with Lawyer Milloy.

 

[Brady6]

You're probably right, but Tebow's problem is he can't read defenses quickly and he can't throw accurately. That doesn't mean he doesn't know which plays the Pats plan to run against the Bills and Jets and which personnel groupings they plan to use. If neither Sanchez nor the rookie can go for a few weeks, wouldn't Tebow be the best stop-gap for the Jets? The Jets and the Pats have used such gamesmanship before, so why wouldn't they use it again?

I think Tebow was psychologically destroyed in NY; so no he wouldn’t be the best stop gap in my opinion he would likely just further deteriorate as a player if he returned there. I believe Tebow needs to be on the Patriots, Packers, or Saints if he is going to be on a roster in 2013, someplace with a strong starting QB where he can fly under the radar (by Tebow standards) for a season or 2 and rebuild his mental game.

 

[goheels22002]

Really? With all his new receivers you don't think Brady and his new crew have been working on specific plays to get them through the first few weeks? You don't think Tebow knows which routes Amendola excels on or Thompkins? I don't think anyone is going to offer anything to BB for Tebow, even a bag of golf tees. The question I was answering is whether he would be cut before the season starts, and while I thought he would be cut, now I am not so sure. I think BB might keep him to prevent him from falling into enemy hands for a few weeks, if for nothing else, then to give no advantage to the first two opponents while Brady and his receivers get their game going.

Seriously, I do not think Tim Tebow could shed light on what the Patriots do elsewhere because he is not capable of going through route progressions. The Patriots passing game is built on adjustments to the defense. Brady can check down out of any play called based on what he sees, and the receivers' job is to see the coverage and run the route it provides them depending on down and distance.

The Patriots do not run set plays regardless of what the defense is doing. That is the genius of this offense.

Randy Moss and Wes Welker were masters of this with Brady at the controls. Brady knew what they would do if the defense took something away.

From what I saw at training camp and in the two pre-season games, I honestly do not believe that Tim Tebow can read a defense. It's similar to Ochocinco. He could run fast and catch a football, but he could not read a defense and did not know where he was supposed to go.

Tim Tebow had a zero QB rating in the game that was his big chance to show what he could do - a zero. That wasn't because he can't play football. It's because he can't play this kind of football.

The only situation in the NFL right now where a team looks at the defense and says, "Here's what we do. Stop us," is the Minnesota Vikings with Adrian Peterson. It's amazing to behold, but that's how good he is. Everybody else is adjusting like crazy and trying to exploit the other team's weakness or take away their strength. The Patriots just do it better than most.

 

[Kontradiction]

You can't expect to waltz in, offer nothing and get free insults in return. Freeloader.

Whatever you say, Butch. Don't you have a Melissa Etheridge concert to attend?

 

[fnordcircle]

With our first two opponents being division rivals and a mess at QB, I wonder if BB would keep Tebow until after we play the Jets in Week 2 just to make sure neither the Bills nor the Jets sign him, either to play or to give away the playbook.

Belichick has never really struck me as the sort to make personnel decisions based on fear of what division rivals might do. I also think the 'knows the playbook' thing is overrated since most of these guys aren't exactly committing it to memory and it's kept on the tablets they give them and collect when they send a player packing.

 

[Suddyfan]

Belichick has never really struck me as the sort to make personnel decisions based on fear of what division rivals might do. I also think the 'knows the playbook' thing is overrated since most of these guys aren't exactly committing it to memory and it's kept on the tablets they give them and collect when they send a player packing.

We have a bingo!

If people cared that much they wouldn't cut anyone for fear of them being signed. They would get 53 guys and stick with them. Just because you have a playbook doesn't mean you know what the heck they are going to be running on any given play. Besides how much of the actual playbook is run? I coach youth football and we have several different "sets" with many different plays in each set... yet we may use maybe 15 different plays in any game (we typically run 55-65 offensive plays per game).

I feel like I can give my play book to the opposing coach and say, "here game plan for this" it would drive them nuts!

 

[Awesomo 3000]

No it's not. That would mean that the question in the thread title is a loaded question. While the question specifically asked in the O.P. is a loaded question, the one in the thread title is not.

This doesn't really make any sense. It's not loaded in the first sentence, it's just loaded in the rest of the o.p...?

The last time a player on this roster earned a spot and cost someone else their's when practice performance was weighed too heavily was Sergio Brown prior to the 2011 season. His performance in practice had supposedly made Brandon Meriweather and James Sanders expendable (at least that was the argument given here, specifically citing media reports). He wasn't impressive at all, and that's putting it kindly, in preseason games. As it turns out, letting at least one of those guys go was a mistake and we fielded the second worst pass defense of all time to that point.

You seem to be implying that it was a simple either/or issue there. Keeping Brown didn't mean that they absolutely had to get rid of Meriweather. Brown has to be compared to at least 5 more of the other inactive/bubble players to make it that kind of mistake. I'd be willing to bet that there were at least a few members at the bottom at that roster that contributed zero to the team that year. That's the way it is with just about every team, every year.

Every single year, on every single team in the NFL, players are cut, who were expected to contribute. This isn't breaking news, or controversial. But insert Tebow's name into the mix, and suddenly, many otherwise sane people flip out, and it becomes a travesty of monumental proportions that Tebow would be kept over some other roster bubble player. (referring to some of the more "intense" posters here, and crazy video blogger peoples)

The next offseason, Brown was given his walking papers. So yes, practice should be weighed, but you'd have to be more specific as to how heavily you'd like it to be weighed. As for Tebow, he was largely generating mixed reviews in practice and looked anywhere from incosistent to horrible in the actual games. Based off of what we've seen and heard, if I were to go by how he's performed alone, I wouldn't say that he's earned or deserves a roster spot. But, as I said before, that may not be the team's plan for him. The team could very well be keeping him around to give the defense read option looks in practice, and that could be how he gets a roster spot.

You're saying that there might be more to "earning" a roster spot than only preseason game play, right? That's fine by me. According to o.p., we're only allowed to judge on the preseason games we've watched. Having a discussion or argument with you seems bearable. When someone like the o.p. comes in and makes arguments against my imaginary opinions, with imaginary conditions, and doesn't even listen or respond sanely to posts, it becomes something else.

This and some of Ivan's posts are pretty good examples of why every Tebow thread that has ever been started on this forum suck... badly.

Have you noticed how he likes to tell "Tebowites" exactly what their opinions are, then insult them for these "opinions", and go off on these tangents based on nothing but his own imagination? You can't even have a semi sane conversation with somebody doing that, especially when they're belligerent about it.

I'm not posting for your, or anybody else's "entertainment". I'm just pointing out the lunacy in some of this guy's posts. I try to inject some humor on the way, but I'm no comedic genius.

 

[mgteich]

I simply don't understand how anyone can believe that Tebow has "earned" a roster spot. He may get one, or not. However, he has done nothing to "earn" the roster spot.

 

[Ironman44]

I simply don't understand how anyone can believe that Tebow has "earned" a roster spot. He may get one, or not. However, he has done nothing to "earn" the roster spot.

Exactly that's why the Poll is garbage and ludicrous.

Except Ivan thinks its not and instead he will argue its an in depth scientific study, when in reality he is just doing it to tweak the 10 Tebow fans on the site, who by the way have conceded (before this thread) that Tebow has stunk it up in the pre season games.

 

[sb1]

You can "Dead man walking" all you want Ivan. Fact of the matter is that thoughts about Welker are split in the Pats community from what I've seen and there are vast differences of opinion wrt him.

My position is that while he showed versatility while with the Phins, he didn't jump out and the page or give any indication that he'd be one of the most productive receivers in the NFL.

Go look at this numbers with Miami. They pale in comparison to the kinds of stats he put up here. Had he remained in Miami or gone to most other teams, he wouldn't have the status or acclaim that he has now.

In short, the Pats and Brady MADE Welker. This isn't to say that he's a talentless hack, by any means. He's very good at what he does. But his "greatness" came from playing here.

You probably know he was a special teams dynamo with the Dolphins but as a receiver he did have 15.0 YPC in 2005 and 10.3 YPC in 2006. Both those numbers stand up to his stats as a Patriot. And that was with Harrington and Culpepper throwing to him. I actually think he might have been the best offensive weapon the Dolphins had in 2006....

There's a good reason why the Patriots were willing to cough up a second round pick for him.

 

[ATippett56]

I simply don't understand how anyone can believe that Tebow has "earned" a roster spot. He may get one, or not. However, he has done nothing to "earn" the roster spot.

Don't tell that to some people because it's not a case of whether Tim Tebow has "earned" a roster spot, but because it's Tim Tebow he "deserves" a roster spot.

As of today taking account the most recent roster maneuvers, one could argue that two offensive players will be cut that are worthy of a roster spot if the offense was limited to 25 roster players:

QB (2): Brady, Mallett
RB (6): Ridley, Vereen, Blount, Washington, Bolden, Develin
TE (5): Gronkowski, Fells, Hoomanawanui, Ballard, Sudfeld
WR (6): Amendola, Edelman, Thompkins, Dobson, Boyce, Slater
OT (4): Solder, Vollmer, Cannon, Svitek
OG (2): Mankins, Connolly
OC (2): Wendell, Stankiewitch

 

[Demosthenes]

You probably know he was a special teams dynamo with the Dolphins but as a receiver he did have 15.0 YPC in 2005 and 10.3 YPC for in 2006. Both those numbers stand up to his stats as a Patriot. And that was with Harrington and Culpepper throwing to him. I actually think he might have been the best offensive weapon the Dolphins had in 2006....

There's a good reason why the Patriots were willing to cough up a second round pick for him.

In 2005, Ashley Lelie had 42 catches and 18.3 YPC with Jake Plummer throwing to him. Justin McCareins had 43 and 16.6 with a combination of Bollinger, and old Testaverde and a beat up Pennington. Lee Evans had 48 and 15.5 with Holcomb and Losman.

Strangely, I don't seem to recall any of those three guys becoming household names or top receivers in the game.

Welker had decent enough stats in Miami, but he couldn't crack the starting lineup and he didn't get that many targets/catches in Miami's offense. Look at his last season in Miami and compare it to his first season here:

Miami - 67 687 10.3
Pats - 112 1175 10.5

WR's don't really make their "names" based on YPC, especially not 10.5. They get considered as "elite" based off of total yards and # of receptions.

 

[Demosthenes]

Don't tell that to some people because it's not a case of whether Tim Tebow has "earned" a roster spot, but because it's Tim Tebow he "deserves" a roster spot.
As of today taking account the most recent roster maneuvers, one could argue that two offensive players will be cut that are worthy of a roster spot if the offense was limited to 25 roster players:

QB (2): Brady, Mallett
RB (6): Ridley, Vereen, Blount, Washington, Bolden, Develin
TE (5): Gronkowski, Fells, Hoomanawanui, Ballard, Sudfeld
WR (6): Amendola, Edelman, Thompkins, Dobson, Boyce, Slater
OT (4): Solder, Vollmer, Cannon, Svitek
OG (2): Mankins, Connolly
OC (2): Wendell, Stankiewitch

Now you are just flat out lying and being disingenuous.

 

[SDI_Gator]

Don't tell that to some people because it's not a case of whether Tim Tebow has "earned" a roster spot, but because it's Tim Tebow he "deserves" a roster spot.

Find me a quote where any one of the Tebow fans says "deserve". I said hope, but not deserve.

I hope Tebow makes the roster. I have never said he deserves a spot, quite contrary, he has looked horrible in the 2 games. Against Philly he was ok at best, and downright tragic against Tampa.

 

[ATippett56]

Now you are just flat out lying and being disingenuous.

Boo Hoo!

Cry me a river!

 

[sb1]

In 2005, Ashley Lelie had 42 catches and 18.3 YPC with Jake Plummer throwing to him. Justin McCareins had 43 and 16.6 with a combination of Bollinger, and old Testaverde and a beat up Pennington. Lee Evans had 48 and 15.5 with Holcomb and Losman.

Strangely, I don't seem to recall any of those three guys becoming household names or top receivers in the game.

Welker had decent enough stats in Miami, but he couldn't crack the starting lineup and he didn't get that many targets/catches in Miami's offense. Look at his last season in Miami and compare it to his first season here:

Miami - 67 687 10.3
Pats - 112 1175 10.5

WR's don't really make their "names" based on YPC, especially not 10.5. They get considered as "elite" based off of total yards and # of receptions.

Those guys aren't really relevant in a conversation just about Welker but I'd say Lelei was underrated and underappreciated by the Broncos. McCareins was a good special teamer himself but Welker was better. Neither of those guys were complete like Welker. That attribute of Welker had in no way, shape or form anything to do with Brady. And YPC may matter less than those other two metrics but 67 catches is not a small sample size and 10.5 is still nothing to sneeze at at all.

Completely disagree that he was "made" in New England. I know that's a popular opinion but that doesn't make it so. And like I said if the Patriots felt that way they certainly wouldn't have given up a second round pick for him.

 

[ATippett56]

Find me a quote where any one of the Tebow fans says "deserve". I said hope, but not deserve.

Quite frankly, I don't have to do anything. :snob:

 

[Fawn Lebowitz]

In 2005, Ashley Lelie had 42 catches and 18.3 YPC with Jake Plummer throwing to him. Justin McCareins had 43 and 16.6 with a combination of Bollinger, and old Testaverde and a beat up Pennington. Lee Evans had 48 and 15.5 with Holcomb and Losman.

Strangely, I don't seem to recall any of those three guys becoming household names or top receivers in the game.

Welker had decent enough stats in Miami, but he couldn't crack the starting lineup and he didn't get that many targets/catches in Miami's offense. Look at his last season in Miami and compare it to his first season here:

Miami - 67 687 10.3
Pats - 112 1175 10.5

WR's don't really make their "names" based on YPC, especially not 10.5. They get considered as "elite" based off of total yards and # of receptions.

Welker had Gus Frerotte, Joey Harrington and Cleo Lemon throwing to him. Miami knew exactly what they had in Welker, but couldn't match the offer so they traded him to the Pats.

 

[SDI_Gator]

Quite frankly, I don't have to do anything. :snob:

Very true. You are allowed to smear people without repercussion, glad this is still the internet.

To each his own.