Gunner needs to sit a game

[Ice_Ice_Brady]

Gilmore needs to go - what a horrible signing
What the heck was Belichick thinking when he signed Van Noy?
Amendola is a bust - waste of a roster spot ...........................................

The list goes on and on and it looks like we've added Michel and Gunner to the list this year after 3 whole games in which the team has dominated as much as any team in memory. Amazing.

It isn’t like that at all. Gunner is somewhere below the 45th player on the roster in terms of expectations. It’s not like anyone is fuming mad that he’s on the team. He’s a UDFA on the cheap, and it’s not like he’s holding back some superstar from playing.

It’s more just bewilderment that people can’t acknowledge the guy has looked way below what we hoped for so far, and his talent may not be enough beyond preseason scrimmages. If you superimposed a Jets uniform on him and showed all of his returns this season, there would be unanimous agreement that he isn’t cut out for the NFL, and maybe even some chuckles. Again, I hope he improves and Belichick knows talent like no other, but his punt returns have been a sht show with little visual evidence that he’s capable of being a solution.

 

[patfanken]

I mentioned it earlier in the thread, but CLEARLY people have missed it. Julian Edelman, one of the greatest punt returners in league history, has fumbled 12 times over the years including FIVE times in one season. Have some f*cking perspective here.

Until that fumble, Gunner had not only fielded all his previous punts, he had done it smoothly, without even a bobble. When are you guys going to get it. EVERY PR fumbles the ball. EVERY single one of them. Only if he does it on a continual basis will it become a problem.

This is an over reaction in the extreme. I would have loved to have heard you guys back when Brady threw FIVE picks against Denver in a playoff game. Boy would HIS career have been a lot shorter if you guys had any say so.

 

[Ice_Ice_Brady]

I mentioned it earlier in the thread, but CLEARLY people have missed it. Julian Edelman, one of the greatest punt returners in league history, has fumbled 12 times over the years including FIVE times in one season. Have some f*cking perspective here.

Until that fumble, Gunner had not only fielded all his previous punts, he had done it smoothly, without even a bobble. When are you guys going to get it. EVERY PR fumbles the ball. EVERY single one of them. Only if he does it on a continual basis will it become a problem.

This is an over reaction in the extreme. I would have loved to have heard you guys back when Brady threw FIVE picks against Denver in a playoff game. Boy would HIS career have been a lot shorter if you guys had any say so.

The fumble doesn’t bother me. The lack of physical ability/field vision to be successful does.

 

[Doctor DDS]

Gunner has played 3 games in his entire career and returned a total of 13 punts. Whether he ultimately becomes an important player on the roster is fair to speculate but to write him off already seems like a massive rush to judgement. If he had not fumbled that one punt he would not be in the conversation. He's new to the role and I am willing to give him a chance to figure it out.

 

[Oswlek]

The fumble doesn’t bother me. The lack of physical ability/field vision to be successful does.

Didn't you say you were done debating? At the very least I would suggest dispensing with the hyperbole. You come across as being unreasonably staunch in your position.

 

[Ice_Ice_Brady]

Didn't you say you were done debating? At the very least I would suggest dispensing with the hyperbole. You come across as being unreasonably staunch in your position.

It isn’t hyperbole. Having the physical ability to be successful in the NFL is damn hard to have. The guy is obviously a great football player...that isn’t always enough. There’s degrees of greatness, and the NFL is filled with amazing athletes. Feel free to stop following around my scent like a creepy sniffing dog.

I’m actually trying to give the guy a break about a fumble. It happens. My concern is what he actually does when he gets them all, and it not being good enough.

 

[Oswlek]

It isn’t hyperbole. Having the physical ability to be successful in the NFL is damn hard to have. The guy is obviously a great football player...that isn’t always enough. There’s degrees of greatness, and the NFL is filled with amazing athletes. Feel free to stop following around my scent like a creepy sniffing dog.

If it isn't hyperbole, then you don't just appear to be unreasonably staunch in your position.

 

[ctpatsfan77]

It isn’t hyperbole. Having the physical ability to be successful in the NFL is damn hard to have. The guy is obviously a great football player...that isn’t always enough. There’s degrees of greatness, and the NFL is filled with amazing athletes. Feel free to stop following around my scent like a creepy sniffing dog.

I’m actually trying to give the guy a break about a fumble. It happens. My concern is what he actually does when he gets them all, and it not being good enough.

Again, a key point here is that PR might be his most notable duty, but it's not his only duty. He's playing at least two ST units, is a backup WR, and could play DB in a catastrophe/blowout.

 

[holyredeemer]

Gunner is currently 15th in the league in PR avg. @ 6.77yds. If he averaged 2 more yds a return, he would be right behind Sproles @ #9. Has he lit the world on fire? No, but he hasn’t been piss poor either. Let’s also not act as if the PR blocking unit has been giving him a ton of breathing room either. It’s been 3 games, he’ll improve. The PR unit as a whole will improve as well. As others have noted, he plays ST’s, backs up at WR (which he is only going to improve at) and can play D if **** hits the fan. I have faith that he will be a completely different player as time goes on. I also realize he could just stop progressing and never amount to much of anything, but that time hasn’t come.

 

[Ice_Ice_Brady]

If it isn't hyperbole, then you don't just appear to be unreasonably staunch in your position.

I think we need to turn this thread into something metaphysical. The nature of perception and reality, and in turn the universe, is at stake here. But honestly, hyperbole would be jumping on the hate wagon about a single miscue or saying the guy sucks. I just think he’s a bubble player in terms of talent and appears to be outside the bubble as actual games are taking place now. The guy isn’t dog crap by any means, but it seems he lacks that extra gear or elusiveness required.

I’ll reiterate: I’ve been wrong plenty of times and right plenty of times regarding young players. If I’m wrong and Gunner turns out to be a solid player, I’ll gladly acknowledge that this is an overreaction. My expectations just weren’t high for him to begin with. However, I don’t think I’m seeing confirmation bias here. Hope I’m wrong and I can eat some tasty crow.

 

[Ice_Ice_Brady]

@Wordsmyth ...I think you’re going to run out of your bag of Red Xs on this subject. I’m thinking these need to be allotted like challenge flags.

P.S. Did you consider my feelings? How will I be able to flame a player with hyperbole again after this carnage? @Oswlek, how about some green check marks, you know, just to show you’re a good guy and some things (like my fragile self-esteem) are more important than football? Someone please help!

 

[mgteich]

We've benched one of the best punt returners in the history of the NFL.

We've replaced him with an average punt returner.

In order to secure this reduction in production, we use up an active roster spot, further reducing production and/or flexibility.
====
That being said, it is probably the right thing to do.
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What I don't understand is why folks think that somehow using an active roster spot on an average punter is a good thing (rather than a necessary one). Using a roster spot for an average point returner is done out of desperation, fear of using one our WR's for that role.

 

[Oswlek]

Using a roster spot for an average point returner is done out of desperation, fear of using one our WR's for that role

Or because he looked better than average in the preseason, particularly for someone with limited experience and who offers other special team value.

This doesn't absolve him of being average so far (I'd say he's actually been below average to this point), nor does it diminish the clear desire to keep Edelman safe. But "desperation" is several steps too far.

 

[mgteich]

Over the past several years, many players looked "better than average" or even great in the preseason and never played for the patriots, especially wide receivers. Many play/played for other teams.

Or because he looked better than average in the preseason, particularly for someone with limited experience and who offers other special team value.

This doesn't absolve him of being average so far (I'd say he's actually been below average to this point), nor does it diminish the clear desire to keep Edelman safe. But "desperation" is several steps too far.

 

[Oswlek]

Over the past several years, many players looked "better than average" or even great in the preseason and never played for the patriots, especially wide receivers. Many play/played for other teams.

So?

 

[TommyD4207]

Or because he looked better than average in the preseason, particularly for someone with limited experience and who offers other special team value.

This doesn't absolve him of being average so far (I'd say he's actually been below average to this point), nor does it diminish the clear desire to keep Edelman safe. But "desperation" is several steps too far.

Were there real expectations from this guy, other than 'Someone other than Edelman to field punts" though?

It's a lot tougher to return punts against NFL players, as opposed to UPS drivers.

 

[PatsWickedPissah]

Unless Thah Gunnah is dropping lotsa punts in practice he needs to play Sunday. No Squirrel to return punts please!
EDIT: Read Ken's post about Edelperson's punt drops & Brady's 5 picks in a game losing a lead to Denver.
Kid is also the last backup WR in case the starters go down again. Better than Slater swatting down long balls like an angry hornet attack.

 

[tasmlab]

Is that the same Juilian who stepped in for an injured Welker in his second game as a rookie and had over 100 receiving yards, and averaged 10.5 yards per punt return that season?

It’s laughable to compare the skills Edelman had in 2009 to Gunner’s skills in 2019. Edelman was clearly a good punt returner breaking everyone’s ankles. Has Gunner made a single defender miss yet?

Just for fun, here's JEII his rookie season and BB picking on Welker:

 

[Oswlek]

Were there real expectations from this guy, other than 'Someone other than Edelman to field punts" though?

It's a lot tougher to return punts against NFL players, as opposed to UPS drivers.

I think there were. IMO, it's telling that Gunner has even been taking the "hands" punts that Faulk and Welker got in Edelman's early days. That speaks to Gunner being more than just a body.

 

[PatsWickedPissah]

"Way to compete!"

ROTFL