Great Point by....Felger?????

[FCB02062]

Last night on the CSN show Dbag brought up a fantastic point - and I gotta say I have to agree with the guy...

His point was, and I'm paraphrasing here, basically that in the aftermath of the blown 18 point lead in the 2006 AFC Championship game, Belichick and the Pats organization targeted Indianapolis and designed their teams going forward with an eye on being able to OUTSCORE Indianapolis at home or in the RCA Dome/Lucas Oil Stadium. They highlighted Indianapolis as their major rival - if you're going to win the SB, you need to be able to beat Indianapolis. If you look at their transactions (draft/free agency), Felger's point pretty much holds up - as does the evidence on the field.
In 2007, free agent signings were heavy on the offense - Sammy Morris, Donte Stallworth, Kyle Brady ; and a defense designed to stop the pass and get to the quarterback (theoretically, anyway) - Adalius Thomas, Tory James - remember Thomas was going to be able to "cover" tight ends down the seam? Heck, he even played safety before!
Anyway, to expand on Felger's point, it doesn't look like Belichick or the front office saw Baltimore or the NYJ as a threat, or at least that TYPE of team as a threat. The Patriots built a "finesse" team to run with Indianapolis, getting away from the offenses they had during their SB runs - a team that could run the ball even when the opponent knew they were going to run the ball.
Troy Brown brought up that point exactly - he said when the Pats had Corey Dillon, they knew they could line up, give the ball to Dillon, and ground out the clock with 3, 4, 5 yard runs with a few play action passes mixed in. This team as currently constituted cannot do that.

 

[vyrago]

Troy Brown brought up that point exactly - he said when the Pats had Corey Dillon, they knew they could line up, give the ball to Dillon, and ground out the clock with 3, 4, 5 yard runs with a few play action passes mixed in. This team as currently constituted cannot do that.

Wasn't his nickname "clock-killin' Corey Dillon?"

 

[TomPatriot]

The Patriots built a "finesse" team to run with Indianapolis, getting away from the offenses they had during their SB runs - a team that could run the ball even when the opponent knew they were going to run the ball. Troy Brown brought up that point exactly - he said when the Pats had Corey Dillon, they knew they could line up, give the ball to Dillon, and ground out the clock with 3, 4, 5 yard runs with a few play action passes mixed in. This team as currently constituted cannot do that.

The Pats didn't lose to the Jets because they couldn't run the ball and kill the clock. They ran for almost as many yards as the Jets did.

 

[upstater1]

Felger is wrong once again.

There's nothing wrong with having a powerful offense.

The problem for the Patriots is losing Harrison, Bruschi, Law, Vrabel, McGinest, Seymour, Samuel.

That's the problem.

Felger makes it sound like Belichick planned this by design. "Hey fellas, let's deemphasize defense!"

Blast Belichick all you want for personnel decisions on defense, you may be right.

We drafted Wheatley, let Samuel go, drafted Meriweather who may/may not be working out, signed Adalius Thomas, had a few draft busts and bad trades (Duane Starks, Derrick Burgess), let Seymour go, but don't say they made a deliberate decision to make the defense weak.

The Patriots lost their defensive studs to old age, etc., and didn't replace them adequately. That's what happened.

 

[FCB02062]

The Pats didn't lose to the Jets because they couldn't run the ball and kill the clock. They ran for almost as many yards as the Jets did.

Right, but they were never in a position to run the ball to the kill the clock because they were down 14-3, correct? Also, another point dbag (actually it might have been Curran) made was that you very rarely have a "finesse" offense - there's really no arguing that the Patriots right now are a finesse offense - and a "physical" defense.

 

[Patradomous]

He is absolutley right.
You have to have battle tested defense when the O fails.
do you remeber what happend to the 03 Colts when they went like umteen games without punting> When they punted the first time against the Patriots it went for a saftey.
remember the 07 Pats when they had to make a stand?
remember 10 Pats when their O failed?
How about the 2010 Boise St vs Nevada.Offense has a tough game and special teams and defense chokes.

The Pats beat the Colts when their defense was good enough to beat the offense.
That 06 game by the was the Patriots were totally beat up.I think Rodney and others were out.And i won't even mention the worse penalty Troy Brown has ever seen.

 

[FCB02062]

Felger is wrong once again.

There's nothing wrong with having a powerful offense.

The problem for the Patriots is losing Harrison, Bruschi, Law, Vrabel, McGinest, Seymour, Samuel.

That's the problem.

Felger makes it sound like Belichick planned this by design. "Hey fellas, let's deemphasize defense!"

Blast Belichick all you want for personnel decisions on defense, you may be right.

We drafted Wheatley, let Samuel go, drafted Meriweather who may/may not be working out, signed Adalius Thomas, had a few draft busts and bad trades (Duane Starks, Derrick Burgess), let Seymour go, but don't say they made a deliberate decision to make the defense weak.

The Patriots lost their defensive studs to old age, etc., and didn't replace them adequately. That's what happened.

Don't think he's saying he "tried" to make the defense weak; it's more of an redesign argument - he "redesigned" the offense to outscore teams and "redesigned" the defense to be able to cover four and five receivers...

 

[PABLITO1017]

The Pats didn't lose to the Jets because they couldn't run the ball and kill the clock. They ran for almost as many yards as the Jets did.

i agree. the Pats were definately more balanced than in recent years. if you look back on the Jets game the pats ran the ball fairly well. The pressure on brady and the uncharactoristic mistakes (botched fake punt) put the Pats in the early hole. had the patriots been able to establish a decent lead i think they would have been able to manage the clock just fine. This offence is loaded with weapons and sure a more polished back could help, but for the most part this offence is fine. i mean wasn't it the best in the league for the most part?? eliminate the mistakes and tighten up the D and this team will improve.

the pats weak link is on the defensive side of the ball. if these young guys can improve and if the pats can get a few more studs on that side of the ball, this team can and will get back to the superbowl.

 

[upstater1]

Don't think he's saying he "tried" to make the defense weak; it's more of an redesign argument - he "redesigned" the offense to outscore teams and "redesigned" the defense to be able to cover four and five receivers...

As far as the offense goes the point is to score points on every drive, so i don't see how that's a bad thing.

I'm not sure as well about the last point about the defense. Of course you have to cover WRs. That's where the Patriots are deficient. He NEEDS to design a D that stops them.

Have the Patriots been deficient in stopping the run? No. They do well there.

The lack of a pass rush and problems at CB have hurt the redesign of the defense.

But look at all the assets expended: Derrick Burgess, Terrence Wheatley, J Wilhite, J Sanders, B Meriwether, Patrick Chung, Gus Scott, Duane Starks, Leigh Bodden, Shaun Springs, J Cunningham, Darius Butler, Devin McCourty.

He sure as hell is trying to redesign that defense. It just hasn't worked yet.

 

[Disco Volante]

What? The Patriots have built a team that's been able to own Pittsburgh every year and Pittsburgh have been the true class of the AFC since 2005, not the Jets or Ravens.

 

[Boston Boxer]

Last night on the CSN show Dbag brought up a fantastic point - and I gotta say I have to agree with the guy...

His point was, and I'm paraphrasing here, basically that in the aftermath of the blown 18 point lead in the 2006 AFC Championship game, Belichick and the Pats organization targeted Indianapolis and designed their teams going forward with an eye on being able to OUTSCORE Indianapolis at home or in the RCA Dome/Lucas Oil Stadium. They highlighted Indianapolis as their major rival - if you're going to win the SB, you need to be able to beat Indianapolis. If you look at their transactions (draft/free agency), Felger's point pretty much holds up - as does the evidence on the field.
In 2007, free agent signings were heavy on the offense - Sammy Morris, Donte Stallworth, Kyle Brady ; and a defense designed to stop the pass and get to the quarterback (theoretically, anyway) - Adalius Thomas, Tory James - remember Thomas was going to be able to "cover" tight ends down the seam? Heck, he even played safety before!
Anyway, to expand on Felger's point, it doesn't look like Belichick or the front office saw Baltimore or the NYJ as a threat, or at least that TYPE of team as a threat. The Patriots built a "finesse" team to run with Indianapolis, getting away from the offenses they had during their SB runs - a team that could run the ball even when the opponent knew they were going to run the ball.
Troy Brown brought up that point exactly - he said when the Pats had Corey Dillon, they knew they could line up, give the ball to Dillon, and ground out the clock with 3, 4, 5 yard runs with a few play action passes mixed in. This team as currently constituted cannot do that.

absolutely agree!

 

[Ron Sellers]

In my opinion the shift in emphasis was not so much because the Pats were focused on the Colts; it was in response to the change in the "point of emphasis" that Polian and the rules committee made, instructing referees to not allow defenders to hit potential receivers and call those penalties more tightly. There was sound logic to that decision.

It appeared to me that the referees got away from that directive this year, especially in the playoffs. I'm sure the Patriots staff noticed that, and will react accordingly.

As for "finesse offense", "physical offense", etcetera, I think that has more to do with reputations than anything in fact. The Packers utilized a zone defense, tricking the Bears by dropping Clay Mathews into coverage when Chicago thought he would be rushing the QB - leaving a player on the other side open for the sack. So by using brain rather than brawn to get to the quarterback, does that make them a "finesse defense"?

Roethlisberger passed for 268 yards per game and Brady passed for 244 yards per game. The Patriots ran for more yards, and more yards per carry than the Steelers this year. Shouldn't that mean the Steelers have a "finesse offense" and the Patriots have a "physical offense"?

As for Felger, he's perfectly capable of making a valid point - although I'm not going to completely agree with what he is saying here. You just have to recognize that he often says things for the purpose of creating a discussion, because if there is no discussion and debate then sports talk radio usually loses much of its audience.

 

[chicowalker]

Didn't we blow out the Jets this, beat the Steelers pretty soundly and beat the Ravens this year? For a team that was built to beat the Colts but not those kinds of teams, they certainly were capable of handling those teams.

I understand it's the offseason, and we're a week of a hugely disappointing loss (to one of those teams), but the team lost last week because they didn't make plays -- not because of any structural / strategic issue.

The Pats were 14-2 and, imo, were the best team in the NFL this year (which, even if true, is now irrelevant). But they didn't play their game last week. They made mistakes to start the game and after that continued not to make big plays, while the Jets did make some.

The team does have weaknesses, like all NFL teams. I'd like to see the O line and pass rush shored up and would love to see impact guys added anywhere on the field except QB and TE.

 

[SVN]

BB built the offense in 2007 because he saw an opportunity with what he saw in urban meyer's offense .Doubt anything to do with beating the colts or rules. His biggest strength is accepting change. This year he went back to more of running/passing team with BOB. He is not stuck with one idea or one goal to beat X team. If anything he has not been able to his defensive players from 2007 . if anything must be critiqued its the defensive replacements and missing on maroney/chad jackson etc .

 

[seven]

The problem with Felger's analysis is the Pats reworked the D and the O this year, I would argue to beat the Jets. Felger somehow ignores the Moss deal,
how much different the O scheme became. And 45-3. The plan had come together, big time. 14-2.
Rebuilding year really became hyped like the dynasty renewed.

Pats had good enough personnel to win. Take three moments, the pick, Crumpler's drop, the fake punt fiasco, change any two, they win.
Maybe one of them does it.

This is how most big games go.
One play changed in the three SB victories? The idiot helmet catch vs the Giants , etc.

A couple of different calls here and there on choice of play to run, it is different. Jets played their game of the year, especially the secondary.
Play that game 10 times, Pats win 7.

 

[Ice_Ice_Brady]

The Patriots have put together an awesome offense, but at a high cost. Most notably, I think their defense is suffering from the draft of 2006 with the busts of Laurence Maroney and Chad Jackson. This forced them to go offensive again in 2007 and forced them into a desperate free agent move with Adalius Thomas. My guess is the Pats wanted to rebuild the defense beginning in '07 but had no choice because Jackson and Maroney were such utter failures. Losing the SpyGate pick didn't help either.

If you look at how teams perform in the NFL, you can usually look back 3-4 years and see how their draft was back then.

The bottom line is, the Pats would have been better served with a gradual replacement plan on defense, not a complete demolition and rebuild. While they are improving, teams like the Steelers are able to seemlessly groom players into the roles left behind by other great ones. Think about how many player the Pats lost almost all at once: Samuel, Seymour, Bruschi, Harrison, Vrabel, Colvin. These guys were the leaders of the team and key to winning championships.

 

[OldPatsfans]

What Felger wrote is nothing new. Everyone was excited with Moss, Stallworth, Welker. Everyone knew it was to out-Colts the Colts.

But what happened on the defense was not BB's intention IMHO. Things just did not work out. BB got Rosy Colvin, but who could predict he had such a freaky hip injury? Who could have foreseen Adalius Thomas? All the core D players of the 2003 2004 got older.

We were not so lucky in drafting and FA signing for defense. Until this year. But have faith, the future is likely to be good with these draft picks. I'm already over this year. Look forward to next season.

 

[Real American Hero]

What? The Patriots have built a team that's been able to own Pittsburgh every year and Pittsburgh have been the true class of the AFC since 2005, not the Jets or Ravens.

This is certainly not lost on me and has been eating away at me at least since we lost last weekend. The Steelers are on the verge of their 3rd title in 5 seasons which puts them in "dynasty" discussion yet it feels like they've mostly managed to dodge all the other top teams from this era (one win over the Colts in a 2006 divisional game). Is that really possible? Who is their chief rival? The Ravens?

 

[Deus Irae]

This is the same Felger who said that Moss was the problem, that the Patriots would get to the AFCCG without Moss, and that the team would be better without Moss stretching the defense.

He was wrong on all 3 counts.

 

[Patstopia]

The team was better without Moss. No doubt about it!