Good BSPN article on Mac

[moosekill]

Funny how all the “lolz our weapons are fine it was all Mac Jones’s fault give us Zappe and we’re a good team” talkers are quiet this week after the Zappe offense not only got shut out but couldn’t even get in the freaking red zone once against the worst pass defense in the league.

It’s like weapons matter after all to a QB. Any QB. Always did always will. Maybe when we get a good GM we’ll get some.

Not one person said this. You just make **** up over and over to push your narrative. The posts were, Mac sucks, you can't tell what you have until you get rid of Mac. Zappe may suck, or he may be mediocre or he may be great, but we now know what we have with Mac. The next thing we can't tell is how bad are the receviers. If Mac sucks, and zappe sucks how can we tell if the receivers are good or bad. It is a team game and probably if we switched receivers with Miami, the qb's would be better, but would our receivers look better playing with Tua.

 

[sb1]

Not one person said this. You just make **** up over and over to push your narrative. The posts were, Mac sucks, you can't tell what you have until you get rid of Mac. Zappe may suck, or he may be mediocre or he may be great, but we now know what we have with Mac. The next thing we can't tell is how bad are the receviers. If Mac sucks, and zappe sucks how can we tell if the receivers are good or bad.

"Change the QB and the offense is fine. The weapons are fine. The OL is fine, it's just the QB that sucks." Saw this theme plenty of times here.

"Zappe may be great" lmao still fighting the good fight. Zappe's offense was shut out by the worst pass defense in the league. No excuses... he had the starters to himself in practice. The offense didn't even make the Chargers red zone once. Not. Once. Let that sink in. That's 3 straight games in single digit points and counting. The receivers are trash. The TE's are mid. The quarterbacking has been trash. The OL is lousy at pass blocking. The offense is wretched. All facts.

It is a team game and probably if we switched receivers with Miami, the qb's would be better, but would our receivers look better playing with Tua.

Our quarterbacks MIGHT look better... but Miami's receivers wouldn't. And Tua absolutely wouldn't.

Bill is a defensive guy. Always was. Always will be. He simply can't build an offensive team without Brady at QB and the results speaks for itself.

 

[ahmed]

Why? The article was an objective assessment of why Mac has failed. It doesn't whitewash anything or make excuses for his poor performances. In a nutshell, he is incapable of transcending a subpar surrounding cast with individual play.

My comment was not about Mac or even this specific article. Have you never noticed how ESPN constantly drops articles randomly about players or coaches? Not even related to certain events or milestones. I saw an article about Vrabel a day or 2 ago. Same thought crossed my mind.

 

[mike_usagisan]

I agree but your question might mean something else to me, What was BB thinking? I wonder why we have so much cap space when he could have plugged a few holes with it. Did BB really over rated Parker that much? JJSS that much? Did Mac's struggles surprise Bill? We have to be naive to think everything caught Bill by surprise. Is all the cap space next year because the 2024 FA class is so much better? Or because Bill never believed in Mac and didn't want to waste cap dollars until Mac showed something? What was Bill thinking is a great question if posters don't then start assuming BB somehow became an idiot in the last two years. There is a lot of depth to that question.

I think this is a fair point, but we have the cap room because we didn't spend it in last free agency and we don't have a lot of guys on big contracts from the last year or so.

But while it's easy to say Bill should have used that money earlier so we're not in this situation now, the follow up question is who should he have used that money on? Most of the free agent tackles this last free agency have been terrible. While we should have paid Jakobi, does anyone really think he would have saved us this season? He's not a WR1. Who are these amazing receivers Bill should have gotten during free agency that would have fixed Mac? Cap room is great if there are free agents worth spending it on.

For me, it's really a case of we didn't draft OL well enough and WR well enough before free agency and then a bad free agent class couldn't bail us out.

 

[ahmed]

There's a lack of critical thinking going on, on this board. And the worse our record gets the more rabid the defend Bill at all costs! Crowd is getting.

Mac has been god awful this year.

But that doesn't mean juju/parker are suddenly 1500 yard guys and comparable to Hill/waddle with another QB. It doesn't mean we stick our head in the sand and pretend Bill put together a Superbowl roster full of pro bowl talent! And Mac is just holding them back

That's how some posters are acting. I don't need to suspend belief and pretend that juju is somehow the same as AJ brown. Which is what some posters are trying to make the correlation.

Realistically bill put together a 6--11 team at best. And the Poor QB play is making it a 2-15 team. Should we be happy building 6-11 teams?

Who the hell even brought up defending Bill? You people that turn every thread into a hammer Bill thread need to chill.

My original comment that started all this blame Bill mania had nothing to do with him. For the record, I have been wanting Bill fired for a long time. Some of you can't seem to see past bashing him in every thread though.

 

[Real fan 02]

Says a lot of what I've been saying. He's broken, and things are bad enough it's not clear who failed who. That is, did Mac fail the team or did the team fail Mac? We might never know.

I'll keep saying.. last off season is where it all went downhill for Mac and the organization..

 

[Sect140]

Says a lot of what I've been saying. He's broken, and things are bad enough it's not clear who failed who. That is, did Mac fail the team or did the team fail Mac? We might never know.

Both.

 

[n1997y]

There's a lack of critical thinking going on, on this board. And the worse our record gets the more rabid the defend Bill at all costs! Crowd is getting.

Beautiful example of a self-validating statement.

Second half of that demonstrates the truth of the first half by totally ignoring how rabid the Bill bashers have gotten and their inability to tolerate anything short of total allegiance and agreement with them.

Who the hell even brought up defending Bill? You people that turn every thread into a hammer Bill thread need to chill.

My original comment that started all this blame Bill mania had nothing to do with him. For the record, I have been wanting Bill fired for a long time. Some of you can't seem to see past bashing him in every thread though.

As I was saying….

QED

 

[n1997y]

I agree but your question might mean something else to me, What was BB thinking? I wonder why we have so much cap space when he could have plugged a few holes with it. Did BB really over rated Parker that much? JJSS that much? Did Mac's struggles surprise Bill? We have to be naive to think everything caught Bill by surprise. Is all the cap space next year because the 2024 FA class is so much better? Or because Bill never believed in Mac and didn't want to waste cap dollars until Mac showed something? What was Bill thinking is a great question if posters don't then start assuming BB somehow became an idiot in the last two years. There is a lot of depth to that question.

Thanks for helping me realize a hidden undertone to many of the Bill Bashers’ posts. I just realized part of this is a fresh manifestation of the Brady ball washers / Team Anti-Bill using it to claim BB was always an idiot saved from revelation only by TB12’s greatness. I’ve underestimated the importance of posts stating that, not realizing that it’s not about Bill as much as it’s another way of honoring their idol. Building TB up by tearing BB down. Not recognizing that what made the two of them a great partnership was working together, just as what makes the current locker room a failure is not working well together.

 

[Grogan14]

If we draft a QB in 2024 with a Top 5 pick expectations will be even higher. T Lawrence was the first overall pick so expectations are so high he will fail at Jacksonville? So we should trade down into the 2nd round to draft a QB to drop expectations? What?

Ratcheted up the pressure in Y2? Nothing changed. Mac had to read defenses, set his feet, find the open receiver, etc. Having to perform your job at a high level is part of professional sports. This is nothing unique to Mac. Mac sucks. Mac is not a starting NFL QB. Move on.

BB broke Mac. BB ruined Mac. The excuses start. Maybe Mac does not have the talent to be a NFL QB. Over three quarters of the guys drafted to be a starting NFL QB fail. Every failed QB is because a head coach failed and ruined them? BB is responsible for Mac's actions - BB made him do it. No, Mac is a weak minded person who is not a starting NFL QB. Billion dollar business, lost marbles, and a capitalist society? What? Mac failed because BB made him do it, because the USA is a capitalist society. Lol

The whining and sniveling to defend Mac is embarrassing.

Not defending Mac. He is a bad qb.
But 2 things can be true at the same time
Mac sucks
But Bill amplified the suckage

By the way…..who drafted Mac?
Bill is at least 50% responsible

Devin Mccourty agrees by the way

Devin McCourty admits Patriots more at fault for Mac Jones' struggles

Devin McCourty put the onus on the Patriots for Mac Jones’ shaky development.

patriotswire.usatoday.com

 

[ctpatsfan77]

It's as if Bill honestly thought the system was why the Patriots won with jags and not Brady elevating and making up for his poor roster mistakes.

Brady still had top tier talents (top 3 at their positions) from 2007 on.

 

[mike_usagisan]

By the way…..who drafted Mac?
Bill is at least 50% responsible

Who else should he have drafted? The three QBs ahead of Mac are garbage. If he had gone the vet route for Jimmy G., we're probably looking at the Raiders offense from earlier this year. There are only so many good QBs around and they're really hard to get. People can hate on Bill for drafting Mac, but tell me who he should have got, even with the benefit of hindsight?

 

[One-If-By-Sea]

Thanks for helping me realize a hidden undertone to many of the Bill Bashers’ posts. I just realized part of this is a fresh manifestation of the Brady ball washers / Team Anti-Bill using it to claim BB was always an idiot saved from revelation only by TB12’s greatness. I’ve underestimated the importance of posts stating that, not realizing that it’s not about Bill as much as it’s another way of honoring their idol. Building TB up by tearing BB down. Not recognizing that what made the two of them a great partnership was working together, just as what makes the current locker room a failure is not working well together.

Yes, when Mac decided to not work together, which would have required Mac to address his shortcomings, Mac was going to fail. Some posters want to say that it was all Patricia's fault or all BB's fault.

In Mac's first year he collapsed over the last 5 or 6 games with McDaniels, in Y2 Mac was a failure with Partricia and Judge, in Y3 Mac collapsed further with O'Brien. At what point do people stop blaming coaching?

 

[VrabelJr]

Who else should he have drafted? The three QBs ahead of Mac are garbage. If he had gone the vet route for Jimmy G., we're probably looking at the Raiders offense from earlier this year. There are only so many good QBs around and they're really hard to get. People can hate on Bill for drafting Mac, but tell me who he should have got, even with the benefit of hindsight?

With hindsight Christian Darrisaw (OT, Vikings) but I agree with you. We needed a QB and everyone thought we robbed the league blind when we drafted Mac. Turns out 2021 draft class looks like crap all across the board just about.

 

[One-If-By-Sea]

Not defending Mac. He is a bad qb.
But 2 things can be true at the same time
Mac sucks
But Bill amplified the suckage

By the way…..who drafted Mac?
Bill is at least 50% responsible

But you are defending Mac. Saying that the coaching ruined Mac is defending him. You did not say BB amplified the suckage. You said "BB is responsible for breaking him mentally and not supporting him", and "Bill broke him so bad that Mac had to ask for advice outside the organization". Bill broke him so bad Mac was not responsible for his own actions? Ridiculous. No-one is responsible for anything they do because there is a big green monster making them do it?

Of course BB has some responsibility. But that is not what you wrote. We have no idea what happened at the Patriots. Some posters have stated that Kraft has no involvement in personnel matters even though Kraft has said he does have involvement in personnel matters . Some posters say that Mac was great in Y1 even though he cratered in last 5 or 6 games. And now working together as a team is not important because the coaching forced Mac to go outside the organization. It is all excuses, whining, and whinging that is embarrasing.

 

[sb1]

The Jones pick was not a mistake at the time. Trading up for him (or Fields) would have been but that didn’t happen.

It’s hard not to blame the coaching for Jones face planting when two failed coaches in over their heads were in charge of driving his second year. Now that was a mistake.

 

[Grogan14]

Who else should he have drafted? The three QBs ahead of Mac are garbage. If he had gone the vet route for Jimmy G., we're probably looking at the Raiders offense from earlier this year. There are only so many good QBs around and they're really hard to get. People can hate on Bill for drafting Mac, but tell me who he should have got, even with the benefit of hindsight?

Bill had multiple chances to draft franchise qb after Brady and before Mac

Lamar Jackson
Jaylon Hurts

Or other non franchise qbs better than Mac
Davis Mills
Sam Howell

Or Veteran free agents to push Mac in TC
Baker Mayfied
Mariotta
Trubisky
Mike White
Tyrod Taylor
Gardner Minshew



Nobody forced BB to take Mac, he should own it

 

[Thelonious]

All in all, I think Mac could have become - might even still become, elsewhere - an average NFL starter. Bill's negligence, both as GM and as HC, made this impossible here. Mac is not good enough to overcome such negligence and stupidity. I'm not sure who, other than perhaps a few stellar outliers, could have done so. The net is that we do not as yet know what Mac's actual upside might be. We are left knowing now only what we knew when he was drafted: that his upside potential is probably limited at "average." The data is so corrupted by Bill's failures that no more definitive evaluation can be made. If I had to quantify the causes for Mac's failures here, I would put the blame at about 75% on Bill, and my solution, my way of avoiding a repeat of this ugly interlude, would be to fire it's main architect: Belichick. His fanboys will need to find another binky. The team has to get going on the rebuild, and ****yfooting any longer around the obvious facts of Bill's failures is a waste of time.

 

[Steve102]

If we draft a QB in 2024 with a Top 5 pick expectations will be even higher. T Lawrence was the first overall pick so expectations are so high he will fail at Jacksonville? So we should trade down into the 2nd round to draft a QB to drop expectations? What?

Ratcheted up the pressure in Y2? Nothing changed. Mac had to read defenses, set his feet, find the open receiver, etc. Having to perform your job at a high level is part of professional sports. This is nothing unique to Mac. Mac sucks. Mac is not a starting NFL QB. Move on.

BB broke Mac. BB ruined Mac. The excuses start. Maybe Mac does not have the talent to be a NFL QB. Over three quarters of the guys drafted to be a starting NFL QB fail. Every failed QB is because a head coach failed and ruined them? BB is responsible for Mac's actions - BB made him do it. No, Mac is a weak minded person who is not a starting NFL QB. Billion dollar business, lost marbles, and a capitalist society? What? Mac failed because BB made him do it, because the USA is a capitalist society. Lol

The whining and sniveling to defend Mac is embarrassing.

That guy hates Bill. Everything he posts is colored by that.

 

[VrabelJr]

Bill had multiple chances to draft franchise qb after Brady and before Mac

Lamar Jackson
Jaylon Hurts

Or other non franchise qbs better than Mac
Davis Mills
Sam Howell

Or Veteran free agents to push Mac in TC
Baker Mayfied
Mariotta
Trubisky
Mike White
Tyrod Taylor
Gardner Minshew



Nobody forced BB to take Mac, he should own it

You're literally faulting BB for not identifying every good late 1st round and beyond QB in recent years. People would have lost their mind if we took Jackson in the first round in 2018 coming off the Super Bowl loss to Philly. Jalen Hurts in 2020 is questionable but I recall everyone on this board wanting Jake Fromm anyway.