Give me Vrabel or Give me Death

[lancerman]

I just never understood the “why Jimmy” line of thinking. Firstly, Jimmy is a good player. Durability has been an issue, but when on the field, he’s won at a high clip.

Secondly, the fact the Brady is one of one and went on a run of three (unreal, when you think about it) SB victories and two near misses in 2015 (crazy injuries) and 2017 (D was a mess) is unbelievable. That unparalleled success didn’t seem hampered by JG’s existence.

While Brady did win 4 SBs after Jimmy’s arrival, I cannot fault any front office who wants to look ahead while they field a 35+ year old QB in this league. It’s prudent and smart to do so.

And we know now that Jimmy would have been a mistake. Every QB on the Niner’s has won at a “high clip” when the stars were healthy. Jimmy played two full NFL seasons. He was on IR a year that Bill intended to have him in place of Brady.

 

[upstater1]

There's no need to repeat your self across multiple threads. We get it. He was 37.

He also wasn't close to done.

I'm glad you thought he was. We can rule out your ability to make a reasonable judgment.

It doesn't matter that he wasn't close to done.

What matters is that you prepare for him getting old.

If he's still playing great at 41, you keep him... No one forces you to get rid of him. You draft a QB when he's 37, and if by the end of that QBs rookie contract your old QB is still playing great, then you get rid of the rookie contract QB!

WHICH IS WHAT HAPPENED.

Lynch tried to pry Brady from the Patriots 4 years later and Belichick LAUGHED at him.

This is called being a good GM.

Too bad Kraft didn't understand this. I know Brady's feelings got hurt, but that's TOUGH. This is life.

 

[festy1986]

It doesn't matter that he wasn't close to done.

What matters is that you prepare for him leaving.

If he's still playing great at 41, you keep him...

WHICH IS WHAT HAPPENED.

Lynch tried to pry Brady from the Patriots 4 years later and Belichick LAUGHED at him.

This is called being a good GM.

Too bad Kraft didn't understand this. I know Brady's feelings got hurt, but that's TOUGH. This is life.

The only thing you need to worry about is that the very succession plan you keep talking about was a failed experiment. It was too early. Brady wasn't perpetually hurt like your comparison earlier in Montana.

Jimmy isn't a good NFL player so why go so hard in attaching him to Bill when in reality you would really want to distance your self from that mistake.

I don't fault Bill for trying. It's his job. I fault him for getting it wrong.

 

[upstater1]

Are you hearing your self? The guy Bill chose as his replacement failed miserable compared to Brady over the same time.

Are you hearing your self?

It's not like Bill passed on Jackson. Twice.

Dude you gotta eat this one. You're wrong.

You're out of your mind.

As I wrote, there was no one in that period except for Dak Prescott who the Patriots could have drafted who would have been better than Garoppolo (a guy who actually was the starting QB for a Super Bowl team). No one. Not one single QB.

You actually blame Belichick for not drafting Jackson? After the Kraft freakout!?!??! That's on Kraft.

By 2019, Kraft had already read Belichick the riot act and considered replacing Brady a fireable offense. In that year, the Patriots actually traded multiple picks for WRs to appease Brady. A 1st, a 2nd, a 4th, and expended a lot of resources by bringing in free agents as well.

Not to mention the thing you WILL NEVER ADDRESS. Brady while still under contract with the Patriots made illegal maneuvers to join the archrival Dolphins.

Let's face facts about what this is really about: Brady showed his hand in the Dynasty when he got really upset at the treatment of Guerrero! That is what broke up the Patriots and Brady -- it was how Guerrero was treated.

 

[upstater1]

The only thing you need to worry about is that the very succession plan you keep talking about was a failed experiment. It was too early. Brady wasn't perpetually hurt like your comparison earlier in Montana.

Jimmy isn't a good NFL player so why go so hard in attaching him to Bill when in reality you would really want to distance your self from that mistake.

I don't fault Bill for trying. It's his job. I fault him for getting it wrong.

Too early????!!!

37 is too early.

I would say thank god someone like you doesn't make serious decisions for the Patriots, but I fear that Kraft is inflicted with the same fanboy madness that disallows dispassionate decisions when they need to be made.

Who was the real steward of the Patriots back then? It's not Kraft, that much is evident in the Dynasty. It was Belichick.

 

[festy1986]

You're out of your mind.

As I wrote, there was no one in that period except for Dak Prescott who the Patriots could have drafted who would have been better than Garoppolo (a guy who actually was the starting QB for a Super Bowl team). No one. Not one single QB.

You actually blame Belichick for not drafting Jackson? After the Kraft freakout!?!??! That's on Kraft.

By 2019, Kraft had already read Belichick the riot act and considered replacing Brady a fireable offense. In that year, the Patriots actually traded multiple picks for WRs to appease Brady. A 1st, a 2nd, a 4th, and expended a lot of resources by bringing in free agents as well.

Not to mention the thing you WILL NEVER ADDRESS. Brady while still under contract with the Patriots made illegal maneuvers to join the archrival Dolphins.

Let's face facts about what this is really about: Brady showed his hand in the Dynasty when he got really upset at the treatment of Guerrero! That is what broke up the Patriots and Brady -- it was how Guerrero was treated.

Bill got it wrong. He drove the team into the ground.

It's his legacy.

I'm not out of my mind because you can't see what is literally in your face.

 

[festy1986]

Too early????!!!

37 is too early.

I would say thank god someone like you doesn't make serious decisions for the Patriots, but I fear that Kraft is inflicted with the same fanboy madness that disallows dispassionate decisions when they need to be made.

Who was the real steward of the Patriots back then? It's not Kraft, that much is evident in the Dynasty. It was Belichick.

Are you repeating your self for a reason? If that reason is you think I didn't comprehend you or hear you then please be advised I did.

 

[upstater1]

Bill got it wrong. He drove the team into the ground.

It's his legacy.

I'm not out of my mind because you can't see what is literally in your face.

37 is old.

If you can't understand that, you're absolutely lost.

You'll see in the future the real problems we have as Patriot fans, and they are the Krafts.

 

[upstater1]

Are you repeating your self for a reason? If that reason is you think I didn't comprehend you or hear you then please be advised I did.

Because I can't believe the utter stupidity of thinking 37 is too young for a succession plan

 

[festy1986]

37 is old.

If you can't understand that, you're absolutely lost.

You'll see in the future the real problems we have as Patriot fans, and they are the Krafts.

I understand its old to boomers. Not in today's NFL.

Christ.

No one is defending the Krafts.

You said Kraft ruined Bills succession plan by forcing out Jimmy and choosing Tom. I assume you did, if could of been signbrady as well since you both are making the same indistinguishable argument but let's assume it was you.

Was that not the right move? Did Jimmy not flame out of the league while Brady won 4 more Superbowls and went to 5?

So how can the Krafts take the blame for the succession plan failing but on the other hand not get credit for making sure our hof QB was here for 3 more Superbowl wins?

 

[festy1986]

Because I can't believe the utter stupidity of thinking 37 is too young for a succession plan

Wait.

Are you advocating for Jimmy in 2016-22 over Brady 16-22?

I won't wait for your answer. I know you aren't.

Bill was too early.

Your time for arguing if he was too early or not was in 2014. Not in 2025. We know he was too early. It's a fact.

 

[signbabybrady]

Bill got it wrong. He drove the team into the ground.

It's his legacy.

I'm not out of my mind because you can't see what is literally in your face.

You're definitely out of your mind if you don't think Bill's legacy is firmly intact and I have no idea why you would think a foot note in his story changes his legacy in any way. His legacy is 8 time champion period. There's like 5 people who think like you and they are all on here the rest world thinks he's the best coach ever.

 

[festy1986]

You're definitely out of your mind if you think Bill's legacy is firmly intact and I have no idea why you would think a foot note in his story changed his legacy in any way. His legacy is 8 time champion period.

Bill is the best coach of all time.

He also drove the team into the ground.

That is literally not up for debate. That's how he left this team.

 

[upstater1]

Wait.

Are you advocating for Jimmy in 2016-22 over Brady 16-22?

I won't wait for your answer. I know you aren't.

Bill was too early.

Your time for arguing if he was too early or not was in 2014. Not in 2025. We know he was too early. It's a fact.

Kraft thinks like you, and he held the RIGHT thing to do against Belichick, which is crazy, and it's why you see our dysfunctional owner still refuse to acknowledge the error of his ways. He blames this year on Mayo, and he refuses to see that he himself is the problem.

 

[festy1986]

Kraft thinks like you, and he held the RIGHT thing to do against Belichick, which is crazy, and it's why you see our dysfunctional owner still refuse to acknowledge the error of his ways. He blames this year on Mayo, and he refuses to see that he himself is the problem.

Are you saying Bill was correct to push Brady out and Kraft was wrong in vetoing that decision?

 

[signbabybrady]

Bill is the best coach of all time.

He also drove the team into the ground.

That is literally not up for debate. That's how he left this team.

No matter how many times you choose to be a **** about it it still doesn't alter his legacy.

 

[festy1986]

No matter how many times you choose to be a **** about it it still doesn't alter his legacy.

And nothing you say will change how he ****ed this franchise no Vaseline out the door.

 

[upstater1]

Are you saying Bill was correct to push Brady out and Kraft was wrong in vetoing that decision?

I explained myself multiple times.

How can this still be a mystery to you?

I wrote Belichick was absolutely right to plan for the succession for a very old QB.

He was right not to trade that old QB when that old QB was 41. He laughed in the face of suitors.

What is wrong - and where you are absolutely wrong -- was Kraft interpreting Bill's commonsense preparations as some nefarious plot. The only reason Kraft thinks like that is because he was a fanboy, instead of looking after the longterm health of the franchise.

Let me ask you this: do you honestly believe that Belichick and Kraft were unaware that Brady showed up on Ross's yacht while he was under contract with the Patriots? Of course they knew!! They know these things in the NFL. They are never kept secret, they are never a mystery. But you will deny this ever happened.

 

[signbabybrady]

And nothing you say will change how he ****ed this franchise no Vaseline out the door.

 

[festy1986]

I explained myself multiple times.

How can this still be a mystery to you?

I wrote Belichick was absolutely right to plan for the succession for a very old QB.

He was right not to trade that old QB when that old QB was 41. He laughed in the face of suitors.

What is wrong - and where you are absolutely wrong -- was Kraft interpreting Bill's commonsense preparations as some nefarious plot. The only reason Kraft thinks like that is because he was a fanboy, instead of looking after the longterm health of the franchise.

Let me ask you this: do you honestly believe that Belichick and Kraft were unaware that Brady showed up on Ross's yacht while he was under contract with the Patriots? Of course they knew!! They know these things in the NFL. They are never kept secret, they are never a mystery. But you will deny this ever happened.

Bill was right not to trade his 41 year old QB? Did you NOT say that was Kraft decision earlier?

You won't find me *****ing about drafting Jimmy G in any 2014 thread I promise you. It meant nothing to me.

Those of us who knew Brady wasn't done wasn't worried a single bit.

This dolphin story you have brought up multiple times is confusing to me. Are you asking me if I'm offended Brady forced his way out of here and while under contract tried to get to Miami?

Not really. Don't care. Bill already broke Brady down after 20 years of being a miserable prick.

This idea that I think you're trying to perpetrate is that it wasn't Bill and Kraft that pushed Brady out but Brady who actively made that happen is a lie.

Give Brady the contract he wanted when he asked for it and it's not a problem.