Give me Vrabel or Give me Death

[festy1986]

@TommyD4207 you think Brady is why we weren't winning titles lol.

Weird take.

 

[upstater1]

Brady didn't have loaded rosters, exactly. What he did have, though, was a top-5 player at multiple offensive skill positions (X WR, slot WR, TE, pass-catching RB) for pretty much the entire "TFB" era.

I'm talking about the entire roster, not just his offensive weapons. I will grant you that for the most part, he did not have the greatest WRs. And when he had Moss, they didn't win. They didn't win with Brandin Cook either. He won with Branch, Edelman and Welker. Heck, I'd throw in Amendola and Hogan! But I will say, throwing to Gronkowksi, Edelman and Welker isn't bad.

My point was really that the first era dynasty had Seymour, Bruschi, Phifer, McGinest, Harrison, Ty Law, a pretty good OL, while the second dynasty had Ninkovich, Wilfork, Gilmore, Hightower, a great OL, and then a bunch of truly better than average players at every single position with the exception of DE (after Chandler Jones left). It seems we were forever searching for a pass rusher (I hate to bring up Easley, Jermaine Cunningham, etc.) and only Trey Flowers worked out.

We were running on fumes from 2016-2019 as the roster got old and so many picks were traded away or lost in scandal. By 2020, they gutted the team. They brought in a slew of FAs in 2021, but the defense still had very slow players on it like McCourty, Gilmore (hurt), Chung, Hightower, Van Noy (VN is playing well now, but he was very slow in '21 when he actually had to cover).

 

[TheRainMaker]

Brady didn't have loaded rosters, exactly. What he did have, though, was a top-5 player at multiple offensive skill positions (X WR, slot WR, TE, pass-catching RB) for pretty much the entire "TFB" era.

Aside from 2003 on defense and 2007, the rosters weren’t “loaded”. 2004 offensive roster was their best during the 1st Dynasty. In fact, they had many doubters in the early years because of their perceived “weak” rosters.

2012 and 2015 (pre injuries) were their best offense post 2007.

I think Garoppollo was his succession plan.

It did rekindle the fire in Brady though.

After 2013, it looked like Bill was trying to get ready for an eventual departure of Brady. That was quickly scrapped after the 2014 season. I don’t think Jimmy G had anything to do with reigniting a fire in Tom. The drought for a Lombardi was going on 10 years now when the Pats should’ve won multiple times already. Revis signing was like Deion Sanders going to SF and then Dallas in the 90’s. That in itself was morale boost for the team. Brandon Browner also brought some toughness to a pretty soft defense.

 

[upstater1]

And what a horrible, horrendous succession plan that was.

So, you wanted a 1st round draft choice in the middle of the Super Bowl era? Who would that be?

Name a single player in those days we could have drafted.

30 QBs were taken over those years. Only one worked out for any team in the NFL, and that's Dak Prescott. The only QB worth it from 2013 to 2018 taken after the 1st round (i.e. the only QB the Patriots could have taken).

The fact is, the Patriots took the 2nd best QB they could have in that entire 6 year span.

And Robert Kraft gave Belichick hell for coming up with a succession plan for a 37 year old QB. Which is beyond bizarre. It is ownership malpractice. Belichick actually did the smartest thing a GM could do, and both Borady and Kraft took it as a slight against Brady.

That's a bunch of nonsense. Kraft was so enamored of Brady that he sympathized with Brady's complaint that the Patriots were expending resources on a succession plan! Absurd.

According to Kraft, Belichick should have expected that Brady was going to play well until 45!

Are you listening to yourself?

 

[upstater1]

You're deeply unserious. There's nothing to discuss any longer.

Kraft blasted him for having a succession plan 10 years too early. That's what I want from my owner. Brady had 6 or 7 Superbowls left in him when Bill wanted to push him out the door.

You are defending that position? Weird.

What does DRAFTING Mac, by BILL have to do with BILL not having Superbowl caliber quarterback to work with? Is that a real question? Weird.

Brady being mad about Bill throwing that grifter off the property is the only valid point you made. It's also wtf and out of no where and not relevant. You don't wanna get into the petty personal beefs Bill and Tom had. Bill at every moment tried to Lord over Tom as his boss and refused to give the greatest player in NFL history a ****ing break. I don't find that endearing at all. I find that to be weird boomer ****.

Also I'm still wondering how I'm wrong on Bill drafting Mac. That has me shook. Now I'm wondering if that was someone else. ****.

10 years too early?!?!?!?

Brady was 37!!!

You thought Belichick should wait until Brady was 47 to draft a QB?

You call me unserious?

The 49ers brought on Steve Young when Joe Montana was 31.

31!!!!!!

And you think 37 is too early?

The stuff you're writing tonight is absolutely insane

The funny thing is I believe Kraft agrees with what you're writing.

 

[festy1986]

So, you wanted a 1st round draft choice in the middle of the Super Bowl era? Who would that be?

Name a single player in those days we could have drafted.

30 QBs were taken over those years. Only one worked out for any team in the NFL, and that's Dak Prescott. The only QB worth it from 2013 to 2018 taken after the 1st round (i.e. the only QB the Patriots could have taken).

The fact is, the Patriots took the 2nd best QB they could have in that entire 6 year span.

And Robert Kraft gave Belichick hell for coming up with a succession plan for a 37 year old QB. Which is beyond bizarre. It is ownership malpractice. Belichick actually did the smartest thing a GM could do, and both Borady and Kraft took it as a slight against Brady.

That's a bunch of nonsense. Kraft was so enamored of Brady that he sympathized with Brady's complaint that the Patriots were expending resources on a succession plan! Absurd.

According to Kraft, Belichick should have expected that Brady was going to play well until 45!

Are you listening to yourself?

None of this deserves my attention. You tell me why Bill is planning the succession plan for a QB who has 4 Superbowl wins left in him, 5 appearances and a half dozen other AFC titles games?

Your logic makes sense if I only focus on Brady's age. It doesn't make sense if I focus on his performance.

Brady never had a year in the NFL that said this dude is done.

But if we take that position, why is it that Bill did this in 2014 but not in 2019?

Also. Jimmy sucked.

 

[festy1986]

10 years too early?!?!?!?

Brady was 37!!!

You thought Belichick should wait until Brady was 47 to draft a QB?

You call me unserious?

The 49ers brought on Steve Young when Joe Montana was 31.

31!!!!!!

And you think 37 is too early?

The stuff you're writing tonight is absolutely insane

The funny thing is I believe Kraft agrees with what you're writing.

Jimmy was drafted in 2014 ya?

Brady retired in 2022 ya?

4 Superbowls later right?

 

[lancerman]

I would have liked us to hire Harbaugh last year. Instead we got the disaster that was Mayo because of a handshake promise that Kraft made years ago. OOF.

Kraft was naive fool tbh. He knew Bill's program was outdated and a problem, but instead of having the balls to start over he thought "hmm maybe the guy at top is the only problem and if I get rid of him we can keep everything else". It was dumb. The minute he decided (rightfully) to move on, was the minute he should have cleaned house. But he's an old guy and I'm sure too much change scared him

 

[lancerman]

And what a horrible, horrendous succession plan that was.

People can ***** about this but the fact is Jimmy G would have been a disaster. Wasting time on him is probably the biggest reason the 49'ers under Shanahan haven't won a title yet. Dude played 2 full seasons and most of one other season since he's been in the league. The year we won a Super Bowl after getting rid of him was a year he went on IR after 3 games.

 

[festy1986]

People can ***** about this but the fact is Jimmy G would have been a disaster. Wasting time on him is probably the biggest reason the 49'ers under Shanahan haven't won a title yet. Dude played 2 full seasons and most of one other season since he's been in the league. The year we won a Super Bowl after getting rid of him was a year he went on IR after 3 games.

The pick is whatever to me but saying this was them addressing the succession plan but Kraft stepped in is hyperbole.

Yes Kraft stepped in. Yes this was Bills succession plan. No it wasn't the right move or the right time. Brady had plenty left in the tank.

Bill was antsy to move on from Brady for a long time. It was his big fat ego.

 

[Real fan 02]

1st time HC’s are not the problem. The lack of experience is. Mayo didn’t have much coaching experience and never ran a defense which was why he was a terrible hire.

Every good HC got their start from someone giving them a chance. They didn’t just teleport into being a successful HC.

RK hired mayo out of his affection for him as a man. Someone he embraced a a player and then a position coach. I think they started to sense during the season that maybe it was premature to have hired mayo. The team worsened as the season went along. Even though the roster is bad good coaching would have allowed lesser players to be better. Bill thrived doing this. As a fan I would like mayo and a innovative OC. It's also reported that AVP is gone too. So why's covington still here? Defense was terrible.

 

[Real fan 02]

Same here, I still think Mayo will be a good HC if he keeps at it, NE is just not a place for someone who doesn't know what they are doing, especially post-BB. The fans and media have such a high bar for coaching that a new guy will get swallowed whole unless he wins right away

As I mentioned Mayo should have taken one of the many DC options offered to him. It would have absolutely helped him in his HC tenure. I guess we can call it the Jerod rust era.

 

[Real fan 02]

I what universe??

At the hyde park YMCA men's league

 

[farn]

Jimmy was drafted in 2014 ya?

Brady retired in 2022 ya?

4 Superbowls later right?

I just never understood the “why Jimmy” line of thinking. Firstly, Jimmy is a good player. Durability has been an issue, but when on the field, he’s won at a high clip.

Secondly, the fact the Brady is one of one and went on a run of three (unreal, when you think about it) SB victories and two near misses in 2015 (crazy injuries) and 2017 (D was a mess) is unbelievable. That unparalleled success didn’t seem hampered by JG’s existence.

While Brady did win 4 SBs after Jimmy’s arrival, I cannot fault any front office who wants to look ahead while they field a 35+ year old QB in this league. It’s prudent and smart to do so.

 

[festy1986]

I just never understood the “why Jimmy” line of thinking. Firstly, Jimmy is a good player. Durability has been an issue, but when on the field, he’s won at a high clip.

Secondly, the fact the Brady is one of one and went on a run of three (unreal, when you think about it) SB victories and two near misses in 2015 (crazy injuries) and 2017 (D was a mess) is unbelievable. That unparalleled success didn’t seem hampered by JG’s existence.

While Brady did win 4 SBs after Jimmy’s arrival, I cannot fault any front office who wants to look ahead while they field a 35+ year old QB in this league. It’s prudent and smart to do so.

Yes. Tom is a outlier. A unicorn.

Jimmy though should be in the prime of his career right now and has already been relegated to almost out of the league. He really didn't amount to much.

 

[upstater1]

None of this deserves my attention. You tell me why Bill is planning the succession plan for a QB who has 4 Superbowl wins left in him, 5 appearances and a half dozen other AFC titles games?

Your logic makes sense if I only focus on Brady's age. It doesn't make sense if I focus on his performance.

Brady never had a year in the NFL that said this dude is done.

But if we take that position, why is it that Bill did this in 2014 but not in 2019?

Also. Jimmy sucked.

He was 37!

It's GM malpractice not to plan a succession.

Why is this so difficult for you to understand?

Belichick should've known Brady would play well until 45?

Are you listening to yourself?

Well, Kraft relies on fans like you.

 

[upstater1]

Jimmy was drafted in 2014 ya?

Brady retired in 2022 ya?

4 Superbowls later right?

Again, he was 37!

Joe Montana was 31 when Steve Young joined the team.

37 is OLD.

If you think 37 isn't old enough to implement a succession plan, I don't know what to tell you. It obviously is.

 

[festy1986]

He was 37!

It's GM malpractice not to plan a succession.

Why is this so difficult for you to understand?

Belichick should've known Brady would play well until 45?

Are you listening to yourself?

Well, Kraft relies on fans like you.

Are you hearing your self? The guy Bill chose as his replacement failed miserable compared to Brady over the same time.

Are you hearing your self?

It's not like Bill passed on Jackson. Twice.

Dude you gotta eat this one. You're wrong.

 

[festy1986]

Again, he was 37!

Joe Montana was 31 when Steve Young joined the team.

37 is OLD.

If you think 37 isn't old enough to implement a succession plan, I don't know what to tell you. It obviously is.

There's no need to repeat your self across multiple threads. We get it. He was 37.

He also wasn't close to done.

I'm glad you thought he was. We can rule out your ability to make a reasonable judgment.

 

[Stu Pidassle]

It did rekindle the fire in Brady though.

Brady ruined the succession plan by defying age and continuing to perform long after his chronological expiration date. He was so good for so long the team had to trade his replacement and allowed the team to participate in two more super bowls. For any other fanbase that would be a good thing.