Giants ok with third round pick in exchange for Osi Umenyiora

[MoLewisrocks]

Well, we gave up a 2nd rd pick for a 30 year old Corey Dillon....in the 2nd-to-last year of his contract, too. He was already making 3 million and change, too.

We didn't extend Dillon until after that SB win either, in April 2005 (to a lucrative deal too)

So, yeah. Somewhat similar situation. A one year "prove it," scenario. Dillion for a 2nd. Osi for a 3rd. Both inherited under an old contract for 3 million plus...

Not bad, really...

Yup, and that extension was one of the worst moves Bill ever made and it was probably driven by the value of the pick they'd traded as much as need for cap space thereafter. The cap is remaining flat for the next three years.

Ernie Accorsi is a lot like Ozzie Newsome in one respect...if they aren't interested in extending a guy or retaining him in FA or are willing to trade him for a mid round or later pick - you might want to ask yourself why would I want to.

 

[patsfan13]

If the Pats could work out a resoanable extension for Osi, IOW a contract for < VW is making it would be a great trade even for a 2nd rnd pick.

As a 1 year rental not so much.

 

[PatsWickedPissah]

Remember president people. BB traded for Ted Washington renting him for a year to fix the atrocious 2002 run defense. Won the SB.

 

[Ring 6]

If Osi will accept a role that has him playing 50-60% of the snaps rushing the passer, thereby staying fresh for 4 quarters and for 5 months, we should do this in a heartbeat.
I'm afraid he is more concerned that his role is 'star of the team' though.

 

[PATRIOTSFANINPA]

The Giants are not trading Osi and certainly want to keep him on the team for the rest of his career.

Osi is a Giant now and will likely be one in 2012 and beyond....He isn't going anywhere.

 

[PATRIOTSFANINPA]

Remember president people. BB traded for Ted Washington renting him for a year to fix the atrocious 2002 run defense. Won the SB.

Lets not forget Tractor Traylor who was pretty darn good as Washington's replacement in 2004.

 

[patfanken]

keep in mind the Pats would likely get a 3rd or 4th round pick back a year later in the form of a compensatory pick once Umenyiora signed elsewhere as a free agent.
.

That's a great point that I hadn't considered. The Pats are sure to get back a LEAST a 4th rounder as a comp pick if they couldn't work out a deal and a 3rd is likely. I'm starting to like this more and more

 

[Shockt327]

If Osi will accept a role that has him playing 50-60% of the snaps rushing the passer, thereby staying fresh for 4 quarters and for 5 months, we should do this in a heartbeat.
I'm afraid he is more concerned that his role is 'star of the team' though.

Isn't this a false dilemma?

Osi's role of this team would essentially make him Carter's replacement. Carter often played games where he played virtually every defensive snap. Before his injury, his snap percentages must have been more like 80%.

I don't really see this as a problem...

 

[ivanvamp]

Osi Umenyiora: If you trade for me, you won’t have to redo my contract | ProFootballTalk

He's may be just saying that, but at this point he's interested mostly in playing time--which will help him get a contract later. For a 3rd round pick and less than $4M, it's worth considering.

For a 3rd round pick and less than $4 million, it's absolutely worth considering, and it's almost certainly worth doing. I am not a good enough x's and o's guy to know if he would "fit" into the Pats' system, but from what I've seen, BB is flexible enough to make good use of a guy who is, frankly, a tremendous football player.

 

[PatsWickedPissah]

That's a great point that I hadn't considered. The Pats are sure to get back a LEAST a 4th rounder as a comp pick if they couldn't work out a deal and a 3rd is likely. I'm starting to like this more and more

Jints front orifice might have agita about trading him to the Patriots though

Lots of scenarios where this could make them look bad, really bad.

 

[Reckedtrek]

Jints front orifice might have agita about trading him to the Patriots though

Lots of scenarios where this could make them look bad, really bad.

I'm completely okay with this.

 

[Sivy]

This again??

 

[Shockt327]

keep in mind the Pats would likely get a 3rd or 4th round pick back a year later in the form of a compensatory pick once Umenyiora signed elsewhere as a free agent.

That's a great point that I hadn't considered. The Pats are sure to get back a LEAST a 4th rounder as a comp pick if they couldn't work out a deal and a 3rd is likely. I'm starting to like this more and more

Can we get confirmation on this?

So, if you can get a 3rd rd compensation pick in return for letting Osi hit the free agent market (and sign a Julius Peppers contract) then, well, the downside to trading away that initial 3rd rd pick becomes a moot point.

 

[Ring 6]

Isn't this a false dilemma?

Osi's role of this team would essentially make him Carter's replacement. Carter often played games where he played virtually every defensive snap. Before his injury, his snap percentages must have been more like 80%.

I don't really see this as a problem...

Because last years defense was so good?

 

[patfanken]

Because last years defense was so good?

No but Carter was.

 

[patfanken]

Jints front orifice might have agita about trading him to the Patriots though

Lots of scenarios where this could make them look bad, really bad.

Actually there's only one scenario, if the Pats meet the Giants again in the superbowl this year

 

[Shockt327]

Because last years defense was so good?

What does this have to do with anything?

Your argument was that Osi would have to take a more limited role to play in NE; 50-60% of the reps. Which would lower Osi's status as a "star" player. Which would inhibit his ultimate goal of scoring a big time contract, once his current deal is up.

Again, I disagree.

I'm saying Osi would be replacing Andre Carter. Carter, I believe, got 80% of the snaps, pre-injury. So, I think that counters your initial claim about Osi seeing limited reps. So, what's inhibiting Osi from scoring a huge contract? The previous player in that role, Andre Carter, got an invite to the Pro Bowl. Carter, until his injury, got the kind of attention that Osi wants to get (or, rather, maintain) so he can ink a lucrative contract in 2013.

So, I believe your initial argument created a false dilemma, that's all.

 

[jmt57]

Can we get confirmation on this?

So, if you can get a 3rd rd compensation pick in return for letting Osi hit the free agent market (and sign a Julius Peppers contract) then, well, the downside to trading away that initial 3rd rd pick becomes a moot point.

It would come down to depending (a) how big a contract Umenyiora signed elsewhere, and (b) the net number of other team's free agents signed vs own free agents lost by the team.

I'm guessing Osi's contract would be high enough to put him in the tier for at least a 4th round compensatory pick, and more likely a 3rd.

However in this hypothetical the gaining of that comp pick could be negated by the Pats signing other team's free agents that had not been cut. Those are the two major factors that go into determining compensatory picks.

Also keep in mind it would be the following year that the comp pick would be awarded, so if he bolted following the 2012 season the comp pick would be awarded for the 2014 (not 2013) draft.

 

[PatsWickedPissah]

Actually there's only one scenario, if the Pats meet the Giants again in the superbowl this year

So for example the scenario where Pats win SB with Jints missing the playoffs DOESN'T make the FO look bad?

 

[Ring 6]

What does this have to do with anything?

A lot. You are saying we used an undersized DE in the base all year last year so we can do it this year, and I am saying we did it last year isn't a good reason.

Your argument was that Osi would have to take a more limited role to play in NE; 50-60% of the reps. Which would lower Osi's status as a "star" player. Which would inhibit his ultimate goal of scoring a big time contract, once his current deal is up.

Because we are a 34 team that was forced into a 43 last year, and we willl be a better defense in 34. Also beause Uminyeora is injury prone and playing him 30 snaps a game instead of 60 willl actually make him a more productive player for us, because he can go all out in the situaitons he is best suited for and be fresh both late in games and late in the season, and be less of an injury risk at his advanced age.

Again, I disagree.

I'm saying Osi would be replacing Andre Carter. Carter, I believe, got 80% of the snaps, pre-injury.

Probably more than that.

So, I think that counters your initial claim about Osi seeing limited reps.

Only if we play the same scheme as last year, which failed, and do it with a player who is not as good as Carter, especially in run defense.

So, what's inhibiting Osi from scoring a huge contract? The previous player in that role, Andre Carter, got an invite to the Pro Bowl. Carter, until his injury, got the kind of attention that Osi wants to get (or, rather, maintain) so he can ink a lucrative contract in 2013.

I could care less about what contract he wants.
I only want him in a nickel/dime 30-35 snap a game role.
I see him as a guy with a huge ego who won't accept the role I would like to sign him for.

So, I believe your initial argument created a false dilemma, that's all.

Its a real dilemma, you just misunderstood it.