Flankers: OutSide LineBackers

[DaBruinz]

I'd like to know if Adrian is any relation to Raymond.

That being said, I hope that Clayborn shows up at the Combine at 260 and WANTS to do the LB drills vs. the DE drills.

 

[yopats]

Intriguing...a Iowa product that Bb will have the low down on and should be available in the 10 - 14 range at this point...I like his flexibility especially in terms of BB using more and more and more sophisticated sub packages

 

[Off The Grid]

I'd like to know if Adrian is any relation to Raymond.

That being said, I hope that Clayborn shows up at the Combine at 260 and WANTS to do the LB drills vs. the DE drills.

It's an hell of an interesting set of questions you raise, there.

Clayborn actually put on the extra weight to be a good teammate, change positions, and accommodate his Coach, of course.

I tend to think he'll keep it on, but be open to working the drills you mention...possibly in a private work out, shades of Jermaine Cunningham??

Clayborn has the potential to present a major X Factor, this year.

 

[Off The Grid]

*Intriguing...a Iowa product that BB will have the low down on and should be available in the 10 - 14 range at this point...

*I like his flexibility especially in terms of BB using more and more and more sophisticated sub packages

Two excellent points, indeed.

One thing I've laid particular focus on that ~ as far as I can see ~ NOBODY else has ~ probably because most fans find it enraging ~ is the IMMENSE possibilities this Oakland pick offers...in terms of yet MORE Trade Downs!!

Most of the assumptions and projections are that we'll either Stand Pat, Trade Back ~ 2012 ~ or Trade Up ~ for Bowers, perhaps.

I tend to think that we'll do precisely what we usually do: Trade Back AND ~ please forgive me ~ Trade DOWN.

With the OCEAN of Defensive End Talent coming out ~ and likely to come out ~ this year ~ and I am completely alone is saying this, as far as I can tell: I expect that The Law of Supply and Demand will push a lot of Defensive Ends and Flankers a lot further back than most people expect, as GM's scramble for the relatively few High Caliber RB's, WR's, CB's, and QB's!!

In other words: I have a VERY strong feeling that the Raider pick is going to end up around 8 to 10...and that Coach Bill is gonna load up some SERIOUS Depth of Talent, Trading Down, as Defensive Ends and Flankers get pushed back in favor of scarcer commodities!!

 

[DaBruinz]

It's an hell of an interesting set of questions you raise, there.

Clayborn actually put on the extra weight to be a good teammate, change positions, and accommodate his Coach, of course.

I tend to think he'll keep it on, but be open to working the drills you mention...possibly in a private work out, shades of Jermaine Cunningham??

Clayborn has the potential to present a major X Factor, this year.

I have to disagree with you. If Clayborn put the weight on to be a good teammate at the expense of hurting his over-all play, then I would expect him to work to shed that weight prior to the combine. Why? Because that would put him in the 4-3 DE/3-4 OLB category and more highly prized. Also, it would stand that he'd make more money in the long run.

Trying to do the LB drills while at 280-290 and coming across as above average will hurt him. Doing the drills at 265 and looking fantastic can only help him.

 

[Ochmed Jones]

Flankers: OutSide LineBackers

What an incredibly deep Draft Class. Considering how utterly bereft last year’s deep Draft Class was, of 6.4/250-275 pound Athletes who could potentially fit Coach Bill’s prized role, the depth of talent in this year’s crew is simply ASTOUNDING.

A great number of these guys are projected Defensive End Conversions.

Top Tier

*DaQuan Bowers, Clemson ~ 6.4/275
*Robert Quinn, North Carolina ~ 6.5/270
**Aldon Smith, Missouri ~ 6.5/260

Second Tier

Ryan Kerrigan, Purdue ~ 6.3/265
Jeremy Beal, Oklahoma ~ 6.3/265
Akeem Ayers, UCLA ~ 6.4/255
Greg Romeus, Pittsburgh ~ 6.5/270

I have passed over a number of great prospects whose measurements don’t fit our scheme.

Third Tier

Jabaal Sheard, Pittsburgh ~ 6.3/255
Mark Herzlich, Boston College ~ 6.4/245
*Vince Brown, NorthWestern ~ 6.5/265
*Quint Coples, North Carolina ~ 6.6/270
*Frank Alexander, Oklahoma ~ 6.4/250
*Vinny Curry, Marshall ~ 6.4/250
*Justin Houston, Georgia ~ 6.3/260

Late Round Dark Horses

Sam Acho, Texas ~ 6.3/260
Pierre Allen, Nebraska ~ 6.4/265
Cliff Matthews, South Carolina ~ 6.4/270
Ricky Elmore, Arizona ~ 6.5/260
Brookes Read, Arizona ~ 6.3/260
Ryan Winterswyk, Boise State ~ 6.4/265
Karl Klug, Iowa ~ 6.3/270
Brandon Bair, Oregon ~ 6.6/270
Christian Anthony, Grambling ~ 6.4/275

Binkie Alert!!

God help me: I'm gonna have to break these guys down, one by one, in individual posts. The truth of the matter is that I've got a ManCrush on no less than a DOZEN of these guys.

With speculation that Rosters are going to expand by about 10% after the CBA is finally agreed to, I'd love to see us get extremely aggressive in a Draft that offers ASTONISHING Depth of Talent at this position. If it were up to me, we'd not only hit this position twice in the Top 64, we'd follow up in the late rounds with two more, with a mind towards fielding no less than 6 Flankers on our Final Roster, which could possibly go as high as 60.

OLB as run stoppers and possessing ability to make opposing QB's dump the ball quicker than they want is our #1 priority.

I see Bowers as a pure DE in a 4-3. I can't see him as a DE or OLB in a 3-4.
I can't see Quinn being on the Pats draft board. Loads of on and off the field issues. Leave him for the Raiders.
Smith is JAG from what I have seen on the field.

Kerrigan is the real deal; excellent against the run and pass and goes non stop on every play. Plays with great hands and leverage. Smart and has good instincts. Needs to learn to cover. Perfect projection for our defense.
Watched Beal last night and was not impressed.
Ayers gets pushed around a lot, can;t see BB going in his direction.
Romeus - if healthy- is an excellent candidate to play the old Vrabel role. But back injuries scare me. That is why I had Vollmer rated as a fifth rounder.
Herzich looks like a tremendous fit for us at ILB. SSSLLLOOWWWWW poke Spikes, say hello to bottom end of the depth chart.
Mathews of SC is a guy I like a lot as an OLB for us. The run stopping and pass rushing are excellent.The motor could be better, but hey not everybody is a Kerrigan. I would not be upset if BB took him in the second round. Can't wait to see him in the rematch with Auburn.
Blair and Anthony are excellent wild cards. Not great 3-4 prospects now, but wow what great potential as boom or bust.

 

[Off The Grid]

It's an hell of an interesting set of questions you raise, there.

Clayborn actually put on the extra weight to be a good teammate, change positions, and accommodate his Coach, of course.

I tend to think he'll keep it on, but be open to working the drills you mention...possibly in a private work out, shades of Jermaine Cunningham??

Clayborn has the potential to present a major X Factor, this year.

I have to disagree with you. If Clayborn put the weight on to be a good teammate at the expense of hurting his over-all play, then I would expect him to work to shed that weight prior to the combine. Why? Because that would put him in the 4-3 DE/3-4 OLB category and more highly prized. Also, it would stand that he'd make more money in the long run.

Trying to do the LB drills while at 280-290 and coming across as above average will hurt him. Doing the drills at 265 and looking fantastic can only help him.

You certainly may be right.

I would argue that he'd be more likely to get drafted earlier and make more chips as an End ~ where there's a fresher resume to reassure and entice GM's ~ than as a Flanker.

But that's just my best guess.

And I certainly hope I'm wrong: I would love to have him show up at 260 or 270.

Regarding doing Flanker drills at Defensive End weight: I'm thinking that if he's focused on selling himself as an End, but some GM's were interested in testing him to see his versatility, then why not? They're smart enough to make allowances for the extra beef, and it seems to me that it can only enhance his stock.

But, again: I could be wrong. I'm not even remotely expert on these matters.

 

[Off The Grid]

Flankers: OutSide LineBackers

What an incredibly deep Draft Class. Considering how utterly bereft last year’s deep Draft Class was, of 6.4/250-275 pound Athletes who could potentially fit Coach Bill’s prized role, the depth of talent in this year’s crew is simply ASTOUNDING.

A great number of these guys are projected Defensive End Conversions.

Top Tier

*DaQuan Bowers, Clemson ~ 6.4/275
*Robert Quinn, North Carolina ~ 6.5/270
**Aldon Smith, Missouri ~ 6.5/260

Second Tier

Ryan Kerrigan, Purdue ~ 6.3/265
Jeremy Beal, Oklahoma ~ 6.3/265
Akeem Ayers, UCLA ~ 6.4/255
Greg Romeus, Pittsburgh ~ 6.5/270

I have passed over a number of great prospects whose measurements don’t fit our scheme.

Third Tier

Jabaal Sheard, Pittsburgh ~ 6.3/255
Mark Herzlich, Boston College ~ 6.4/245
*Vince Brown, NorthWestern ~ 6.5/265
*Quint Coples, North Carolina ~ 6.6/270
*Frank Alexander, Oklahoma ~ 6.4/250
*Vinny Curry, Marshall ~ 6.4/250
*Justin Houston, Georgia ~ 6.3/260

Late Round Dark Horses

Sam Acho, Texas ~ 6.3/260
Pierre Allen, Nebraska ~ 6.4/265
Cliff Matthews, South Carolina ~ 6.4/270
Ricky Elmore, Arizona ~ 6.5/260
Brookes Read, Arizona ~ 6.3/260
Ryan Winterswyk, Boise State ~ 6.4/265
Karl Klug, Iowa ~ 6.3/270
Brandon Bair, Oregon ~ 6.6/270
Christian Anthony, Grambling ~ 6.4/275

Binkie Alert!!

God help me: I'm gonna have to break these guys down, one by one, in individual posts. The truth of the matter is that I've got a ManCrush on no less than a DOZEN of these guys.

With speculation that Rosters are going to expand by about 10% after the CBA is finally agreed to, I'd love to see us get extremely aggressive in a Draft that offers ASTONISHING Depth of Talent at this position. If it were up to me, we'd not only hit this position twice in the Top 64, we'd follow up in the late rounds with two more, with a mind towards fielding no less than 6 Flankers on our Final Roster, which could possibly go as high as 60.

OLB as run stoppers and possessing ability to make opposing QB's dump the ball quicker than they want is our #1 priority.

I see Bowers as a pure DE in a 4-3. I can't see him as a DE or OLB in a 3-4.

I can't see Quinn being on the Pats draft board. Loads of on and off the field issues. Leave him for the Raiders.

Smith is JAG from what I have seen on the field.

Kerrigan is the real deal; excellent against the run and pass and goes non stop on every play. Plays with great hands and leverage. Smart and has good instincts. Needs to learn to cover. Perfect projection for our defense.

Watched Beal last night and was not impressed.

Ayers gets pushed around a lot, can;t see BB going in his direction.

Romeus - if healthy- is an excellent candidate to play the old Vrabel role. But back injuries scare me. That is why I had Vollmer rated as a fifth rounder.

Herzlich looks like a tremendous fit for us at ILB. SSSLLLOOWWWWW poke Spikes, say hello to bottom end of the depth chart.

Mathews of SC is a guy I like a lot as an OLB for us. The run stopping and pass rushing are excellent.The motor could be better, but hey not everybody is a Kerrigan. I would not be upset if BB took him in the second round. Can't wait to see him in the rematch with Auburn.

Bair and Anthony are excellent wild cards. Not great 3-4 prospects now, but wow what great potential as boom or bust.

LOVE it. I disagree with you on some ~ most dramatically, on Smith!! ~ but we can always count on you to bring fresh, ballsy insight.

***

~ Bowers is a BEAST against the Run AND on the Pass Rush, so I'm surprised at your assessment. Perhaps you don't think he can drop back in coverage effectively.

~ Concur about Quinn. Too many issues, with us having other great options.

~ STRONGLY disagree about Smith!! Here's hoping that most GM's agree with YOU, though!!

~ Agree 100% on Kerrigan. His relentless Blue Collar Work Ethic simply SCREAMS "New England Patriots!!" :rocker:

~ Agree on Beal. He's a very popular projection for us, but I don't like his Run Defense.

~ Ayers is an EXTREMELY popular pick for us, and an AWFUL one. Concur.

~ Romeus scares me, as well. Pass.

~ Can't agree with you ~ or the other 99% ~ on Spikes. I still believe in that kid.

~ LOVE Herzlich, though: His name means "Hearty", which is HIGHLY appropriate, I'm sure we can all agree.

~ I agree with you on Matthews, and while I concur that he IS a bit BiPolar, I LOVE his Motor, and think he just needs...direction.

~ Absolutely love Bair. Unfortunately, I see him as a 4-3 Tackle.

~ BIG fan of Anthony!! Shhhhhhhhh!!

 

[cstjohn17]

On Clayborn he seems like a a poor height / weight fit for the Patriots, at least based on past drafts. Most players tend to get bigger after college, the idea that he will drop weight seems unrealistic. He could possibly be a fit at DE if he can get up to 300 but even then I don't think he would be a three down player for the Pats which pretty much rules him out for round 1.

As of now, my real early read is that the Pats may look at skills positions (RB, WR) early because they will be under valued. There could be a run on the defensive line in the first part of round 1 making other areas more attractive.

 

[DaBruinz]

On Clayborn he seems like a a poor height / weight fit for the Patriots, at least based on past drafts. Most players tend to get bigger after college, the idea that he will drop weight seems unrealistic. He could possibly be a fit at DE if he can get up to 300 but even then I don't think he would be a three down player for the Pats which pretty much rules him out for round 1.

As of now, my real early read is that the Pats may look at skills positions (RB, WR) early because they will be under valued. There could be a run on the defensive line in the first part of round 1 making other areas more attractive.

Where the heck do you get that most players gain weight after college?? It all depends on the type of eating habits the player takes on. And, since many teams have nutritionists on staff now and actually teach these kids how to eat properly, that's even more UNLIKELY.

I'm sorry, but I don't believe you have the foggiest clue what you are talking about when it comes to weight and players or what the Pats look for in their height/weight ratios.

And We're talking about Clayborn as a OLB potential if he were to lose the 20 lbs he put on for this season. That would put him in the 265 range.

 

[Off The Grid]

On Clayborn he seems like a a poor height / weight fit for the Patriots, at least based on past drafts. Most players tend to get bigger after college, the idea that he will drop weight seems unrealistic.

The idea that he might drop weight ~ which is all we said ~ is unusual, but hardly unrealistic.

As of now, my real early read is that the Pats may look at skills positions (RB, WR) early because they will be under valued. There could be a run on the defensive line in the first part of round 1 making other areas more attractive.

Wow. REALLY??

The RB's are OVER valued, my good man.

And it's very hard to imagine that we'd look at WR in the first round.

A RUN on D Linemen in the early 1st??

More likely that they get pushed back, simply because there are so many quality options, there, and so very few at WR + RB, which are much more likely to be OVER valued, because of the ancient law of Supply and Demand.

 

[cstjohn17]

Where the heck do you get that most players gain weight after college?? It all depends on the type of eating habits the player takes on. And, since many teams have nutritionists on staff now and actually teach these kids how to eat properly, that's even more UNLIKELY.

I'm sorry, but I don't believe you have the foggiest clue what you are talking about when it comes to weight and players or what the Pats look for in their height/weight ratios.

And We're talking about Clayborn as a OLB potential if he were to lose the 20 lbs he put on for this season. That would put him in the 265 range.

I almost forgot how smart you are, thank you for reminding me. Your clueless guesses are just as relevant as my clueless guesses.

It is not just football players, it is called nature. Men in their early twenties tend to fill out not slim down. Clayborn is more than likely not going to be exception. IMO, he looks like a 4-3 end or a 4-3 DT with an outside shot of becoming a 3-4 DE. In the end, nice player but not a fit for the Patriots.

 

[IllegalContact]

Where the heck do you get that most players gain weight after college?? It all depends on the type of eating habits the player takes on. And, since many teams have nutritionists on staff now and actually teach these kids how to eat properly, that's even more UNLIKELY.

I'm sorry, but I don't believe you have the foggiest clue what you are talking about when it comes to weight and players or what the Pats look for in their height/weight ratios.

And We're talking about Clayborn as a OLB potential if he were to lose the 20 lbs he put on for this season. That would put him in the 265 range.

I would bet that more players gain weight than lose weight between the end of their college careers and the beginning of their rookie season in Sept. I would not say they get fatter, but many of them need to add muscle/bulk to play the same position in pros as in college.

 

[Ochmed Jones]

Where the heck do you get that most players gain weight after college?? It all depends on the type of eating habits the player takes on. And, since many teams have nutritionists on staff now and actually teach these kids how to eat properly, that's even more UNLIKELY.

I'm sorry, but I don't believe you have the foggiest clue what you are talking about when it comes to weight and players or what the Pats look for in their height/weight ratios.

And We're talking about Clayborn as a OLB potential if he were to lose the 20 lbs he put on for this season. That would put him in the 265 range.

This is true. The nutritionists and medical staffs will custom a diet to each player depending on a huge variety of issues. They will take blood before, during and after the season and learn all kinds of things about how each players body responds and reacts to different foods, supplements and vitamins. It's top notch stuff but only if the players follow it.

Clayborn looks maxed out to me as far as weight goes, I agree that if he loses 15 to 20 pounds, he would be an intriguing candidate for OLB. I lot of guys get mental blocks about not having their hand in the dirt. Not sure if Clayborn is one of them, but he seems to me like the type that would enjoy mixing it up with the big boys more than covering TE's and RB's out of the backfield.

PS: Saw Cuunningham in coverage twice during the Lions game and it was ugly with a capital U.

 

[D-Money]

Clayborn has had a really down year.I dont know if he's in shape.He had a big year last year.

 

[DaBruinz]

I almost forgot how smart you are, thank you for reminding me. Your clueless guesses are just as relevant as my clueless guesses.

It is not just football players, it is called nature. Men in their early twenties tend to fill out not slim down. Clayborn is more than likely not going to be exception. IMO, he looks like a 4-3 end or a 4-3 DT with an outside shot of becoming a 3-4 DE. In the end, nice player but not a fit for the Patriots.

Unfortunately for you, I use facts. You pull stuff out your rear end.

It's NOT nature that athletically active men on strict diets tend to fill out (don't you mean get fat? ). Also, if you'd seen many of these guys after their playing days are done and they are no longer taking in 4 to 5 THOUSAND calories a day, many have dropped weight. Particularly amongst the linemen.

Again, you offer up nothing factual to support your ludicrous argument.

 

[Off The Grid]

DaQuan Bowers: A TREMENDOUS Argument + Discussion on the Legendary Site: PatsFans.com!!

Seriously: Some REALLY meaty Insight into both sides of the DaQuan Bower Debate.

 

[Ochmed Jones]

Clayborn has had a really down year.I dont know if he's in shape.He had a big year last year.

After last year, offenses are game planning for him this year.

PS: Klug is the best plyer on that defense.

 

[bbell31]

Robert quinn or jeremy beal r my top pix for olb. aldon bowers wont work. Patrick peterson, ingram, daniel thomas, ots, five techs all for 1st round lux

 

[SirApropos]

If Oakland continues to stink it up I actually think we will have a shot at Robert Quinn and I see him as the only OLB BB would take in Round 1.