Fear of Maye getting hurt is a dumb reason to not give him snaps

[Huckleberry1]

Absolutely, a top LT and Nix at 23. We all remember.

And then, many here would get to say that we got our LT, of he even was close to the LT's we have had. And then, we could try again among the poor QB's next year and then in 2026.

MAYBE, we would have been OK to move down a bit for Nix or McCarthy or Penix and then picked an LT in the 20's. I'm sure the posters would have gone nuts!
============
The team chose to draft a QB #3. Maybe that was wrong. HOWEVER, I strongly believe that we should have picked a QB in the top ten or perhaps 11 picks.

And, as it played out the Patriots would have been left holding the bag at QB, but there was always Spencer Rattler.

 

[Huckleberry1]

Whether Brisette is bad or not, Maye doesn't seem ready right now and I can't see that changing in a few weeks. Start Brissette for at least the first month. I think our chances of winning any of those games are higher with Maye watching from the sideline.

That said, seeing him in there by late October would be great.

If they can get the OL in good enough shape to protect him then I would be all for starting the 2nd half of the season.

 

[Force Zero Boomer]

EXACTLY! You agree with me!

No, I don't think I do. Where specifically do I agree with you?

You are missing the point in some of that though, the argument has been, you must sit Maye because it has worked historically.

Not my argument.

Well, the evidence says he should start, so that's a dumb argument and that is MY MAIN POINT.

What evidence? And, don't go back to draft position, because that's a product of many factors, some that have nothing to do with the player: draft order, team needs, the talent of evaluators, and probably a few others I can't think of right now.

We will never know about Brady, maybe he should have but we don't have tape of Brady to show he should have started due to Michigan coaches being morons and not having access to all 22 at the time. Now we do so as casual fans we actually can have enough info to have a qualified opinion.

I don't have the knowledge or experience to look at tape of a QB and decide if he's ready. I think most people are digesting what others have said -- including the opinions of sports journalists and other amateurs -- and forming an opinion. That's fine, but it's not real expertise. Some are applying an analytical approach which disregards important factors in favor of looking at draft position (see my comments above). There's a big difference between saying top 5 picks often start in their first season vs. saying they *should* start in their first season.

If your argument is Drake Maye is not ready to start because X, Y and Z say he is not, GREAT, I completely AGREE, however I'd love to know what X, Y and Z are because they don't seem to exist.

Those reasons have been discussed ad nauseum, and you know what the arguments are. But I question your construction: the calculus changes if you substitute "is not ready to start" with "should not start". The are reasons for him not to start outside of his control, and those needs to be considered.

Obviously, the tape on Drake Maye says he should start. The Analytics say he should start. He HAS to start 8-12 games if you want any hope of enticing a Tee Higgins or other free agent to want to come here next off season. Why not all 17 then?

Not everyone agrees with you on the tape. I haven't heard any persuasive analytics (see my comment above for a critique of one such argument). Not sure where the 8-12 games to get a good FA comes from. What if he goes 1-7 and looks terrible? Is that a better position to be in than touting the tantalizing prospect of a blue chip young QB?

I totally believe the patriots brass believe Maye is better than Brissett today. That's not the reason they are not going to start him.

Precise language is important, and perhaps that's the reason people are talking at cross purposes. There are many types of "better." Is he better than JB in terms of physical talent? Yes. Is he better in the sense that he gives the team a better chance to win? You never know. If he turns the ball over a lot (like Zach Thomas), he won't be better than JB. Is starting him the better choice, based on his age, the state of his development and the condition of the team? That's been a long debate here.

If the OL proves to be decent, I think he plays in the second half of the season.

 

[XLIX]

does not make it a rule, but Love sat for 2 years behind Rodgers

And Rodgers sat behind Favre. But neither Rodgers nor Love were top 5 picks, or even top 10 picks.

 

[Kasmir]

It's easy to understand why Brady, Mahomes, Rodgers didn't start their first year. They were all drafted as developmental QB's behind entrenched starters. Their teams didn't need them. That's why they sat.

The Patriots have Jacoby Brissett as their starter. A competent career backup. Brissett isn't going to win with this team.

If Maye can't beat out Brissett that's a problem.

Every other 1st round QB played extensively last week, and many of them looked good. If Maye is so unready that he can't play in a preseason game then he's a raw project and shouldn't have been drafted so high.

We shouldn't have to endure the same pie-in-the-sky BS 49'ers fans were subjected to about Trey Lance for three years.

Most 1st round QB's are busts. That Maye can't even play in a preseason game because he isn't ready makes him the #1 candidate to bust.

Get him on the field. Let's see what we have now, not dream of what he might become someday.

 

[XLIX]

It's easy to understand why Brady, Mahomes, Rodgers didn't start their first year. They were all drafted as developmental QB's behind entrenched starters. Their teams didn't need them. That's why they sat.

The Patriots have Jacoby Brissett as their starter. A competent career backup. Brissett isn't going to win with this team.

If Maye can't beat out Brissett that's a problem.

Every other 1st round QB played extensively last week, and many of them looked good. If Maye is so unready that he can't play in a preseason game then he's a raw project and shouldn't have been drafted so high.

We shouldn't have to endure the same pie-in-the-sky BS 49'ers fans were subjected to about Trey Lance for three years.

Most 1st round QB's are busts. That Maye can't even play in a preseason game because he isn't ready makes him the #1 candidate to bust.

Get him on the field. Let's see what we have now, not dream of what he might become someday.

Truer words were never spoken.

 

[Force Zero Boomer]

Last year, he had some great moments, but that tape is littered with guys on D who make players in the 4th quarter of the last preseason game look like All Pros. Really looking forward to seeing him play on Thu.

This is an excellent point. The talent gap between the amateur ranks and the pros is massive. It's the Brian Scalabrine argument, in a nutshell -- and a good one.

 

[Jim Beankie]

This is an excellent point. The talent gap between the amateur ranks and the pros is massive. It's the Brian Scalabrine argument, in a nutshell -- and a good one.

Scal's got over a foot on me, but I think I can take him.

 

[Pape]

I posted this a few times I've not sure if @KCSVEN is talking about this. I dont expect Maye to start at this point but every NEP fan should hope he's the starter by W6-8 based on history
.....


This isn't so much my opinion as opposed to a historical pov on highly drafted QB's and who they have in front of them.

I posted this before but will do so again. Again I'm simply looking at what history tells us.

From 94-23 there were 79 QBs taken in the 1st round. Only 19 threw under 100 passes their rookie year. That list (no order) - Lance, Quinn, Pennington, Grossman, Druckenmiller, Tebow, Losman, Campbell, Russell, Locker, Manziel, Lynch.

Then you have Mahomes.
Mahomes was more than ready his rookie year, looking back. He knew the playbook up & down according to coaches. Players he was up against saw what he could do right away. KC was too cautious bc they had Smith. Who, in fairness, was playing at a very high level. That said it's more than obvious Mahomes was ready to go out the gate.
Palmer behind Kitna. Culpepper behind Cunningham/George. Manning behind Warner. Rivers/Brees. McNair behind Chandler. Love and AR. AR and Favre.

Some of those you understand why they didn't play right away. The other list isn't one you want to be on.

There aren't many good examples you can point to when it comes to a rookie qb, eventually being good but he doesn’t beat out a mediocre starter.

Unique cases/late bloomers
Romo, Young, Warner, Schaub

Favre sat behind Miller who was decent at the time. McNair is a good example. He sat behind Chandler but there aren't many good QBs that couldn't beat out a mediocre QB.

I'm not pounding the table for Maye to start no matter what. Thats as dumb as just wanting him to sit for the sake of it. Those aren't really good sides to be on imo, either one. Im just saying it's not a good sign if he doesn't beat out JB by W6-8. Not fire alarm time but reason to be concerned.

I don't have a problem with Maye eventually taking over the starts in 2024. but recent history shows us out of the last 11 out of the last 24 round 1 qbs taken, 11 of them, all year 1 players with significant paying time (except paxton lynch), are now on their second or third teams, or are out of the league. Thats not a promising statistic.

So, I do have a problem with Maye under center at the start of the year, Until the OL is figured out, especially the left side, why would anyone want to put him in the line of fire? best case he gets put in a position to fail and worse case possibly gets injured, which is not a good way to develop a player,

Three weeks into camp - tell me who is the starting line? We don't have one. We are still trying to figure it out.

Call me when we know what we are dealing with. Then I will think about starting Maye.


and gratz on becoming a mod Bacon

 

[mgteich]

Three weeks into camp - tell me who is the starting line? We don't have one. We are still trying to figure it out.

Mayo said that the staff would like to settle on an OL after pre-season Game 2. I believe him. Given that we had FIVE OT's that seemed and seems reasonable. Fans want to know everything NOW. Belichick used to use the first few games as pre-season games, so deciding after the 2nd pre-season game is early. not to panic!

 

[BaconGrundleCandy]

I can see my post about 1st round qbs has gone over well

Here's hoping we're this year's Texans but realistically most know this is a 2-3 year rebuild with the new regime.

Eventually we have to get more aggressive but luckily we have the resources to do so if we decide to let our balls drop.

Also regarding Mahomes and his rookie year. You understand why KC was cautious, they had a reliable, above average QB in Smith who was playing well. That said when you listen to coaches talk about him knowing the playbook, players talk about what he was already doing in practice and what he did his first year (5000/50/12) It's more than obvious he should have played early. A good amount of players wanted him esp vets who's time was coming to an end.


Again this isn't really a "I want him to start/I don't want him to start" conversation. No real fan wants Maye to play when he's not ready but everyone should want him to beat out JB at some point and become the clear-cut QB1. It's not a death nail but when you look at the list, you want him to show that franchise potential a lot sooner than later.

 

[Brewskies]

Yes the OL sucks....but preseason is the time to get him game experience and snaps.
There are only 2 more preseason games. They probably won't play him in final game.

Take the leash off, toughen him up and let him learn. I do not expect him to start at the beginning of the season but stop treating him like he is 4 years old.
I am beginning to think they should not have drafted him if they are so concerned that he will get hurt with a bad OL.

This is going to be a LONG rebuild.
I hope this is not a sign of things to come with Mayo and his staff. I know he is a players coach......but putting your #3 overall pick in a bassinet is not a way to inspire your players to be tough.

You make some good points, very good points. It may be more than trying to protect Maye. It could be that the Patriots don't want to show their fan base, must sell tickets, that Maye was a mistake as a NFL QB. Belichick said he was a risk. Other professional sports people said he was a risk. The biggest fix needed was he feet, so they said. It could be more, so why show the football world he was a mistake and the rebuild will be longer. Kraft hates being wrong, better yet, wrong again. Personally I think Maye was the wrong selection for the Patriots with their OL issues and a long rebuild with new staff people and Kraft. Staff people are coach, GM or whatever the Pats want to call Eliot Wolf's position, along with the coaching staff.

 

[KCSVEN]

Any chance Tyrod Taylors doctor is available to help Jacoby Brissett with any procedures? Remember when Tyrod Taylor was Jacoby Brissett and Justin Herbert was Drake Maye? The Chargers were going to sit Herbert and play Tyrod until the doctor accidentally punctured a lung and Herbert had to play and put up and all-time great rookie QB year?

This is EXACTLY where we are at! Should we start Tyrod Taylor or Justin Herbert? Except Maye is better than Herbert as a prospect and Taylor was a better player than Brissett but otherwise, same, same.

 

[h0c2000]

 

[Pape]

Mayo said that the staff would like to settle on an OL after pre-season Game 2. I believe him. Given that we had FIVE OT's that seemed and seems reasonable. Fans want to know everything NOW. Belichick used to use the first few games as pre-season games, so deciding after the 2nd pre-season game is early. not to panic!

no one has stood out, and i see that as an indicator of a problem.

 

[XLIX]

He is not pro material. Didn't even average 200 yards per game in college. Minnesota over-drafted.

 

[Pape]

no one has stood out, and i see that as an indicator of a problem.

FOXBORO -- It would be hard to put a buff and shine on how the Patriots offense performed in Tuesday's joint practice with the Eagles.

They had more sacks allowed (15) than passes completed (14) with Jacoby Brissett and Drake Maye behind center. They averaged one penalty for every 10 offensive reps (seven on 70 plays).

Training camp stock watch: Pats o-line struggles amid Eagles sack-fest

It was a rough day for the Patriots offensive line in Tuesday's joint practice vs. the Eagles. Phil Perry has an in-depth breakdown in his new stock watch.

sports.yahoo.com

15 sacks...

jfc

 

[Force Zero Boomer]

Mayo said that the staff would like to settle on an OL after pre-season Game 2. I believe him. Given that we had FIVE OT's that seemed and seems reasonable. Fans want to know everything NOW. Belichick used to use the first few games as pre-season games, so deciding after the 2nd pre-season game is early. not to panic!

I know I'm having a hard time waiting to see how all this pans out.

 

[Grogan14]

So if Drake plays now and sucks, are we going to say, "Well, he sucks. Let's draft a new QB in the 2025 draft."?

Congratulations. You're now advocating that we do business like the Jets.

Let the coaching staff get him ready and play him when they think he's ready.

Not saying he should play in regular seaon.
Get him lots of preseaon snaps to speed up learning curve

 

[XLIX]

So if Drake plays now and sucks, are we going to say, "Well, he sucks. Let's draft a new QB in the 2025 draft."?

Congratulations. You're now advocating that we do business like the Jets.

Let the coaching staff get him ready and play him when they think he's ready.

The Jets' problem isn't the way they "do business," it is the parade of losers they have wasted high draft picks on.

In the past 15 years, they have drafted 3 quarterbacks in the top 5 overall: Mark Sanchez (#5 overall), Sam Darnold (#3 overall - could have had Josh Allen or Lamar Jackson), Zach Wilson (#2 overall). Their problem is their drafting sucks, not that they jettisoned any of those guys too soon.