Dugger not running with the starters

[Steve102]

I mean... I might have ranted... that's on brand, but I don't recall it. I don't have a real dog in this hunt. If he's here, fine, if he's not, fine. I get that Vrabel is really purging the old blood, so I am kinda on the IMVWT program right now.

 

[mgteich]

We got that for wannabe starter Milton or was it a 6th? So you saying we don't get anything for veterans that have had some productive seasons? Dugger was not to long ago regarded as a top 15 safety, Jennings is amongst the top edge setters in the game? I say a 5th.. you and @Steve102 have to consider that...

Did someone have to pay Milton $10M? Of course not,

Whoever trades for Dugger will pay him over $10M for his 2025 play.

If we truly don't want him, it is we who should give up a 6th and Dugger for a 2028 7th.

 

[Real fan 02]

How did I get dragged into this? Did I comment on this some where and forget?

Sorry steve.. friendly fire..

 

[mgteich]

The reason to cut him is to keep a player who projects to be more impactful on the game day roster.

I don't think that our player 53 would be more valuable than Dugger. Besides, keeping him gives us a chance to trade him in a month when teams have greater needs.

 

[Steve102]

Sorry steve.. friendly fire..

 

[Toofy]

I don't think that our player 53 would be more valuable than Dugger. Besides, keeping him gives us a chance to trade him in a month when teams have greater needs.

Unless dugger flat out sucks and is probably done as a NFL player.

 

[RobertWeathers]

I don't think that our player 53 would be more valuable than Dugger. Besides, keeping him gives us a chance to trade him in a month when teams have greater needs.

In theory, that's logical but as it pertains to Dugger there are two angles to his "value". There is value on game day to the Patriots and there is market value.

His market value sucks. Even when they applied the transition tag to him when he was producing there were crickets. They'd be lucky to get a 6th or a 7th for him now.

As I said in subsequent post, it depends on how frequently the player plays and his role on the team. Right now it seems Dugger has a very limited role on D and there are other younger players ahead of him on core special teams and defense.

 

[Hammer of Thor]

A little more detail and context from Jordan Schultz:

 

[mgteich]

In theory, that's logical but as it pertains to Dugger there are two angles to his "value". There is value on game day to the Patriots and there is market value.

His market value sucks. Even when they applied the transition tag to him when he was producing there were crickets. They'd be lucky to get a 6th or a 7th for him now.

As I said in subsequent post, it depends on how frequently the player plays and his role on the team. Right now it seems Dugger has a very limited role on D and there are other younger players ahead of him on core special teams and defense.

A 6th or 7th would be huge. Someone would pick up his contract. Are you saying that no one would take a 6th to take his contract?

 

[RobertWeathers]

A 6th or 7th would be huge. Someone would pick up his contract. Are you saying that no one would take a 6th to take his contract?

I'm saying because of his contract and sub-par 2024 performance, the NEP would be very fortunate to get anything in a trade.

 

[mgteich]

I'm saying because of his contract and sub-par 2024 performance, the NEP would be very fortunate to get anything in a trade.

I'm suggesting that we should consider GIVING a 6th AND Dugger for a 2027 7th.

 

[RobertWeathers]

I'm suggesting that we should consider GIVING a 6th AND Dugger for a 2027 7th.

Oh LOL. Sign me up.

 

[Real fan 02]

The reason to cut him is to keep a player who projects to be more impactful on the game day roster.

Exactly correct

 

[Real fan 02]

Did someone have to pay Milton $10M? Of course not,

Whoever trades for Dugger will pay him over $10M for his 2025 play.

If we truly don't want him, it is we who should give up a 6th and Dugger for a 2028 7th.

Why would we give up a player who's been productive, a veteran at that for 6th and 7th.. Dugger still has value for a team he's not a scheme fit here.

 

[Steve102]

I'm saying because of his contract and sub-par 2024 performance, the NEP would be very fortunate to get anything in a trade.

The return would be greater, IMO, if they ate some of his salary. I know you know more about the $$ on these guys than me, but that seems like the way to go.

 

[RobertWeathers]

The return would be greater, IMO, if they ate some of his salary. I know you know more about the $$ on these guys than me, but that seems like the way to go.

I agree. If I were another GM that is exactly what I would ask the Pats to do.

 

[Bill Lee]

Besides, keeping him gives us a chance to trade him in a month when teams have greater needs.

Chance perhaps, but given we're talking about an aging box safety with a big contract coming off an injury, I'd say that chance is small.

If another team finds themselves in need of a safety they can either trade for another team's backup, or take someone off another team's practice squad and put that player on their roster, or issue a tryout for recently cut FA safeties and see if they find someone that they can use.

I understand the value of a top-notch safety, but here I feel we're talking about a replacement-level safety given how most teams use the safety position these days.

Why would we give up a player who's been productive, a veteran at that for 6th and 7th.. Dugger still has value for a team he's not a scheme fit here.

Because teams don't pay for past production, or at least they shouldn't.

A little more detail and context from Jordan Schultz:

Note the part about the Pats needing to eat some money to even have a conversation.

To me this sounds like the prototypical cap casualty: We like him, but not at this price.

It sucks for the player. For the team, he'll just be one of over a thousand players being cut on cut-down day so it can be pitched as an "unfortunate business decision". The fact he's still on the field at the end of the first two pre-season games is a pretty strong sign of what their intentions are.

On NFL cutdown day, each team must reduce their active roster from 90 to 53 players. This means that a total of 37 players per team will be cut, with over 1,100 players being released league-wide according to Bleacher Report and Sports Illustrated.

 

[Real fan 02]

Chance perhaps, but given we're talking about an aging box safety with a big contract coming off an injury, I'd say that chance is small.

If another team finds themselves in need of a safety they can either trade for another team's backup, or take someone off another team's practice squad and put that player on their roster, or issue a tryout for recently cut FA safeties and see if they find someone that they can use.

I understand the value of a top-notch safety, but here I feel we're talking about a replacement-level safety given how most teams use the safety position these days.



Because teams don't pay for past production, or at least they shouldn't.



Note the part about the Pats needing to eat some money to even have a conversation.

To me this sounds like the prototypical cap casualty: We like him, but not at this price.

It sucks for the player. For the team, he'll just be one of over a thousand players being cut on cut-down day so it can be pitched as an "unfortunate business decision". The fact he's still on the field at the end of the first two pre-season games is a pretty strong sign of what their intentions are.

Agreed. The injury habe comprised Dugger he told Phil Perry that his injury was misdiagnosed last season by the teams staff. This should not he a suprise to anyone everything was misdiagnosed last season... so in turn he had have surgery for the ankle. This has severely affected his game. Dugger is a down hill, box safety he could thrive in that role. He still is useful. However a player who's younger, plays a more impactful position like Jennings could net more in trade compensation. I could see the team doing a injury settlement with Dugger should no team trade for him. He has been a great locker room guy and he was a good player for this organization.

 

[Real fan 02]

I agree. If I were another GM that is exactly what I would ask the Pats to do.

IMO it's unlikely a team's going to take Dugger coming off a down season, his cap hit, and a major ankle surgery.. at age 29.. feeling like it may come down to the team and he doing a injury settlement?

 

[Real fan 02]

I don't think that our player 53 would be more valuable than Dugger. Besides, keeping him gives us a chance to trade him in a month when teams have greater needs.

As we know his salary is the roadblock.. as for Jennings his position on the edge as we have plenty of guys ahead of him that offer more versatility.. Jones, Ponder, Swinson for example all younger guys with upside..