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Actual Pats Fan

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Drew was, is and always will be a class act. If not for the way he handled his demotion the Pats locker room would have been split in two and they probably don't win in 2001.
I'm really inclined to disagree because I saw pouting from him in '01...I'm compelled to point out that Steve Grogan was, is and always will be a class act. If not for the way he handled standing on the sideline, the Pats probably don't make it to the Super Bowl in 1985 [the locker room WAS split]...without Eason's injury and Grogan's play and leadership, they aren't even competitive in 1985.
 

1960Pats

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I'm really inclined to disagree because I saw pouting from him in '01...I'm compelled to point out that Steve Grogan was, is and always will be a class act. If not for the way he handled standing on the sideline, the Pats probably don't make it to the Super Bowl in 1985 [the locker room WAS split]...without Eason's injury and Grogan's play and leadership, they aren't even competitive in 1985.
I didn't look at Drew's reactions in the same way. Too him he wasn't being given a chance.

I agree with your take on Grogan. He was one tough sob too. I remember running into him around that time when I was coming out of and he was heading into the Hilltop steak house in Saugus. It was along the long stretch in the front of the place where the fake cows used to fake graze. It was soon after he had lost his starting job. I can't say when that was exactly but I remember thinking it when I saw him. He didn't seem to be happy and rushed by us as I was turning to let my wife know who he was.
 
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scott99

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I’d have to say that despite the bitterness, Drew was quite good. Second best QB the Pats ever had. And I’m a huge Grogan fan, but Bledsoe was really good.
 

Ian

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I’d have to say that despite the bitterness, Drew was quite good. Second best QB the Pats ever had. And I’m a huge Grogan fan, but Bledsoe was really good.
One thing that might tip the scale on this one is imagine Grogan with the same protection QBs receive now along with the evolution of the passing game. Makes you wonder how much better his passing numbers would have been and how much more effective he might have also been having not taken the abuse he did. He was a really, really good player. Drew was my favorite player when I really started following the team more closely in high school, but I've seen video of enough games during Grogan's prime to realize that he doesn't get enough credit - especially from fans outside that era - for how terrific he really was.
 

Hyped

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One thing that might tip the scale on this one is imagine Grogan with the same protection QBs receive now along with the evolution of the passing game. Makes you wonder how much better his passing numbers would have been and how much more effective he might have also been having not taken the abuse he did. He was a really, really good player. Drew was my favorite player when I really started following the team more closely in high school, but I've seen video of enough games during Grogan's prime to realize that he doesn't get enough credit - especially from fans outside that era - for how terrific he really was.
I would say that Grogan was the toughest QB the Pats have ever had...and probably the best running QB the Pats ever had as well.
 

captain insano

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I’d have to say that despite the bitterness, Drew was quite good. Second best QB the Pats ever had. And I’m a huge Grogan fan, but Bledsoe was really good.
Ill take grogan second. He had a laser sighted cannon for an arm. He was tough as nails. And could run before injuries became an issue. But drew was very good.
 

scott99

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One thing that might tip the scale on this one is imagine Grogan with the same protection QBs receive now along with the evolution of the passing game. Makes you wonder how much better his passing numbers would have been and how much more effective he might have also been having not taken the abuse he did. He was a really, really good player. Drew was my favorite player when I really started following the team more closely in high school, but I've seen video of enough games during Grogan's prime to realize that he doesn't get enough credit - especially from fans outside that era - for how terrific he really was.
You make some great points, and being a fan since 1975, I pretty much saw Grogan's whole Pat's career. My only problem with Grogan, was his INTs. Like most great QBs of that era, he wound up with more INTs than TDs (similar stats to Namath who is in the HOF), but man, I'd say a majority of those INTs were REALLY bad throws. And a lot of them were killers, drive killers, game killers, just bad.

But Grogan truly was a warrior. Nobody played harder than him, nobody gave more, and nobody was a better leader than Grogan during his career. Loved him. Him, Steve Nelson & Russ Francis were my 3 favorites back in the late 1970's. Saw an interesting fact, though I hated when they traded Russ Francis to SF, that draft pick was used to draft Hall Of Famer linebacker Andre Tippett in 1982.
 

scott99

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Ill take grogan second. He had a laser sighted cannon for an arm. He was tough as nails. And could run before injuries became an issue. But drew was very good.
Some of those bombs to Stanley Morgan were a thing of beauty. Used to love Harold Jackson too, when he was teamed up with Morgan.
 

1960Pats

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I’d have to say that despite the bitterness, Drew was quite good. Second best QB the Pats ever had. And I’m a huge Grogan fan, but Bledsoe was really good.
Yes he was. It was just his bad luck that Brady ended up in the Pats' perfect storm with Belichick.
 

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Ill take grogan second. He had a laser sighted cannon for an arm. He was tough as nails. And could run before injuries became an issue. But drew was very good.
Steve even ran in the 80's. Bootleg for winning TD vs. Jets in '85.
I would say that Grogan was the toughest QB the Pats have ever had...and probably the best running QB the Pats ever had as well.
Flutie second.
 

Actual Pats Fan

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One thing that might tip the scale on this one is imagine Grogan with the same protection QBs receive now along with the evolution of the passing game. Makes you wonder how much better his passing numbers would have been and how much more effective he might have also been having not taken the abuse he did. He was a really, really good player. Drew was my favorite player when I really started following the team more closely in high school, but I've seen video of enough games during Grogan's prime to realize that he doesn't get enough credit - especially from fans outside that era - for how terrific he really was.
I simply apply the same standards for Grogan as Brady.

Field awareness, game awareness, and making the big, crucial plays with the game on the line.

I'm kind of surprised Brady hasn't started calling his own plays. He's definitely smart enough, and experienced enough.
 

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I'd say a majority of those INTs were REALLY bad throws. And a lot of them were killers, drive killers, game killers, just bad.
Same for some of Brady's klunkers...

The worst had to be at Candlestick in '80, when they kept Grogan in there with two injured knees on a mud slick.

November 30 at San Francisco 49ers:

Steve Grogan started despite injuries to both knees because backup Matt Cavanaugh (a future Niners backup for Joe Montana) was coming off knee surgery. Grogan was picked off six times in a 21–17 loss and "I got crucified in the newspapers, but no one knew I was playing on two bad knees."

Leigh Montville wrote about it: "After the sixth one, the television announcer cried, 'I don't believe it!' And I yelled back at the TV, 'I don't believe it, either!'"

Some cool highlights very near the end of his career:

 

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Flutie wasn't here long enough to be second anything.
True, if Kiam had kept him he'd be first by a mile.

And the denigration of the team would have been limited to ownership's financial mess, and not on field performance.
 

Actual Pats Fan

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Bledsoe show was good. Brought back a ton of memories from 2001 season and how divided fans were over Brady v Bledsoe.
Finally caught it today.

Illuminating, the family comments about Bill Belichick. "Baseball bats" and "race cars with coaches in the street" etc.

First, the wrongful, hateful contempt for Belichick. I liked, appreciated, and agreed with his very public, specific reasoning over Kosar in Cleveland...and again in this case, Bill went out of his way to describe the simple logic of his criteria in coming to a decision. Me? Personally? I would not have had Belichick's patience. I would think, and to the extent I could, say, "F*ck you, morons." Same as I would regarding CryGate, DefameGate, etc. etc.

Second, this makes Raymond Berry's behavior more understandable regarding Tony Eason. Now, Pats fans were not nearly as fond of Tony as they were Drew, but the same context exists about the player, his family, and ownership's financial commitment, if not emotional attachment.

Berry took the safe route. But also, clearly, he truly and deeply believed that Eason gave the team a better chance to win than Grogan or Flutie.

Which is completely insane, but whatever.


Third, we have to (again) give Bob Kraft credit. A LOT of other owners would have stepped in and overruled the coach. "I pay the bills, I'm the boss," etc. etc.


We had to go through all this, in order to finally win.
 

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I didn't look at Drew's reactions in the same way. Too him he wasn't being given a chance.
Bledsoe: "The 2001 season, you couldn't go write that script because nobody would believe you."

A young, talented team led by a sophomore quarterback drafted after the fourth round who led the team to 11 victories and a first round playoff date with the Raiders, after losing 11 games the previous year, on the cusp of the Super Bowl, with a Hall of Famer who is considered to be the best at his position in the history of the sport, led by a head coach who left behind controversy in his previous head job, not of his own making. [1976]


"We had [Tom Brady] over for dinner probably at least every other week. I really liked this kid. He's never going to be a starter. He's going to be Jason Garrett or any of those guys who is just going to be around forever. He will be a good backup quarterback for a decade plus, but nobody outside of maybe Tom himself would have ever predicted that he was going to go on to be a starter in the league."

O'Connor: Meet Tom Brady's first believer

Yasinskas: Majkowski recalls birth of Favre's legacy
 
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