Do any of these five deserve to get into the Pats Hall of Fame?

[p8ryts]

Not really, when you consider the logjam that's about to happen.

Tom is in. Not sure if that bumps anyone back, but the whole 1 per year thing is going to shut all the guys you listed out. Vinatieri gets in. Hightower, Slate, McCourty, Gronk all are locks. That fills in the next five years, plus Bill's clock is now ticking, he gets his own wing across from Brady's wing. Welker deserves to be in. Does Dave Andrews get in? Kevin Faulk and James White? Gilmore? I'd put all those guys in before Martin with Jete cooties, Revis the mercenary, Parcells the turncoat and Junior who just wasn't dominant enough to warrant getting in. I think you make a good case for Randy, but I don't want him ahead of the locks I listed. I have to be missing some other linemen as well. Mankins?

I agree with your locks. no on Andrews Faulk Gilmore and White. Add Julius Adams, Russ Francis, Chuck Fairbanks.

 

[Steve102]

I agree with your locks. no on Andrews Faulk Gilmore and White. Add Julius Adams, Russ Francis, Chuck Fairbanks.

Faulk's in already.

 

[borg]

Note:
All 5 choices are Ring of Honor members on the teams where they made their biggest mark

Note 2.0:
Tuna had 2 losing seasons in 4 years w/ NE, .500 record (32-32) (one 11 win season)
Non-PHOFer Raymond Berry also took NE to the SB, had 4 winning seasons/1 losing season in 5.5 years, .552 winning % (48-39)(two 11 win seasons)

Revis played 1 year in NE

Seau played in only 11 games his final 2 years in NE and started only 2 of those 32

Martin is a Jet.....just ask him

The best argument can be made for Moss but rewarding a guy who shot his way out during his 9 catch/4 game final season with NE has to be factored.

 

[Pape]

The only person on the OPs list that should be in the Patriots Hall of Fame is Bill Parcells... I've waffled on this over the years, but after what happened to BB after being let go? No longer.

Despite the way he left, which was fomented by Kraft effing around with the power structure of the front office, Parcells dramatically changed the fortunes of this franchise. That simply cannot be overstated, nor should it be overlooked.

I know it's a commonly held belief that he tanked Super Bowl XXXI, but he didn't. He would have been the first (and to this day, only) coach to win a title with two different franchises. Based on that achievement alone, if you think he deliberately tanked, then you are being obtuse beyond the point of reason.

Parcells lost a power struggle with a new owner. He got maligned by the press for the acrimonious split. Some criticism was earned, but some not. But, I acknowledge, he did himself no favors afterwards by going to the jete and poison pilling the Curtis Martin contract offer. He might be a **** but he was a great coach while he was here.

Parcells belongs in the Patriots Hall of Fame. Period.

 

[Actual Pats Fan]

So Tyree catching a ball on his head disqualifies Moss from the Pats HOF?

Yup.

Winning a Super Bowl holds tremendous cache with the voters, and it should. 1976 is an outlier due is its unmatched atrociousness.

We committed a dozen suicidal, fatal coaching and strategic blunders, along with failed plays we could have made. We blew it. We didn't deserve to win. Yes Sey & Jarvis too I think were held, but we did too much too keep the Giants in the game.


Now, Dr. Bill Lenkaitis felt we had only ourselves to blame in '76. We weren't perfect by any means...and the guy is a doctor. He's a perfectionist. He doesn't make excuses, just like the Pats this century didn't either. But we can remember (the original broadcast video is conveniently lost) Bill being called three (3) times for holding, bringing back big gains, after he wasn't called for holding the entire regular season.

 

[Actual Pats Fan]

BB needs to be acknowledged along with Brady for why the team was more successful under Kraft.

Hiring Bill is among the handful of utterly brilliant moves by Kraft, easily the best football-related decision he ever made.

 

[Actual Pats Fan]

They weren't a laughingstock? They're the only team to get banned from MNF. Game blackouts which led to a large portion of the market to become Giants fans. 2-14. 1-15.

They were a laughingstock.

Don't be falling for that false laughingstock narrative. The Pats had winning teams in every decade of their existence. And there are definitely most other teams who were worse, especially in the NFC.

fify


There was enough clown show material from the Sullivan ownership to warrant the label.

Two facts counteract it:

1. There was just far too much on field winning. The Giants and Bears, to name two, were absolutely putrid for two decades. Despite some star individuals on the Bears, both franchises were actually worthy of the laughingstock label. Falsely applying it to the Patriots empowered not only ignorance of the team's on field quality, but also tangible prejudice and application of unfair competitive disadvantage predating the Fake-Gates this century by three decades.

2. Local Boston media did not like the Billy Sullivan. Period. Many episodes which were unsurprising for a fledgling franchise with a low budget in a new league were in fact colorful, even charming and endearing. They were instead reported in local media in the most disparaging, demeaning, degrading fashion. This not only jaded both rabid and casual local fans' feelings about the team, it empowered national disdain and disrespect of the team and the franchise, along with mistreatment by the league itself.

Yes, the Sullivans had their share of self-caused embarrassment. Believing that, overall, the franchise under them was more laughingstock material than most of the other teams is prejudicial.

 

[Actual Pats Fan]

They weren't a laughingstock? They're the only team to get banned from MNF.

True. People died. It was chaos.

Game blackouts which led to a large portion of the market to become Giants fans.

Actually, they already were and largely remain to this day, Giants fans.

The blackouts had to do with people not being excited about making the trek down Route One for metal seats, cheap beer, and rowdy non-family friendly crowds.

2-14. 1-15.

Most franchises have exactly that, along with worse.

The 2-14 '81 Patriots had by far the best point differential of any team ever like that. It was the single losing season in a 13-year stretch for the franchise.

Pat Sullivan et al. were responsible for releasing Doug Flutie and letting him sit at home in Natick for six months before bolting to Canada.

Erase that and that '90-'92 period, which everyone likes to portray as if it was two decades, disappears.

 

[lancerman]

Big no to Parcells. He had 2 winning seasons and 2 losings seasons. He finished 32-32. He only won playoff games in his last season here and basically kneecapped the team for the Super Bowl and took away their star player. There was also a good 4 years between him leaving and us winning our first Super Bowl.

People give him way too much credit for coming in after a horrible stretch and being a Super Bowl winning coach from New York. It gives off "small town got big city star and overhypes him as a savior".

Moss I can get behind considering he broke the receiving TD record here and nobody has been close since, along with him being the key addition to probably the most famous Patriots team ever.

 

[BennyBledsoe]

Actual Pats...because I value facts: Parcells was hired by James Orthwein, the previous owner.

And it's funny that someone references Belichick in regards to supporting Parcells. Especially when Belichick himself was pissed off at Parcells for how he handled himself leading into the Super Bowl. Parcells' lack of focus was noted MANY times by players and coaches. And then he leaves without even addressing the team? Come on, stop kissing Parcells' backside. And you know that meddling you're talking about? Parcells wanted one of either of three defensive linemen (Cedric Jones, Duane Clemons, or Tony Brackens) over Terry Glenn, despite Bledsoe desperately needing a deep threat.

 

[203Pat]

Don't be falling for that false laughingstock narrative. The Pats had winning teams in every decade of their existence. And there are probably a few teams who were worse, especially in the NFC.

Tuna was good at a few things, but the most impactful were his handling of the press and how well he picked his spots when he moved on, which he did a lot of. He joined teams that were at rock bottom, most times with the top pick in the draft.

And you gave the best reason with your last sentence why Tuna Crap doesn't belong in the Pats HOF. The same goes for Curtis Martin, who gladly rolled out of town with him. Speaking of Martin, how did he qualify for the HOF? I don't remember him being all that special.

Honestly you would be more in the loop than I am on that early Parcells era as I was just a kid. I know in CT we never even started getting the Patriots games on TV until Parcells and Bledsoe showed up. It used to the Giants or Jets at 1 and the Cowboys on at 4 pretty much every week so I have just always equated Parcells with making the team worth watching in my mind.

 

[203Pat]

Faulk's in already.

To me team hall of fames are for guys like Faulk. Obvious the Brady's and Gronk's will be in but theyre also getting gold jackets. Red jackets are for guys like Faulk who had a role and performed well in it. Faulk was never going to make a pro bowl or get notoriety around the league but being honored by the team he played 13 years for is well deserved.

 

[sb1]

Don't be falling for that false laughingstock narrative. The Pats had winning teams in every decade of their existence. And there are probably a few teams who were worse, especially in the NFC.

Tuna was good at a few things, but the most impactful were his handling of the press and how well he picked his spots when he moved on, which he did a lot of. He joined teams that were at rock bottom, most times with the top pick in the draft.

And you gave the best reason with your last sentence why Tuna Crap doesn't belong in the Pats HOF. The same goes for Curtis Martin, who gladly rolled out of town with him. Speaking of Martin, how did he qualify for the HOF? I don't remember him being all that special.

Yeah it feels like Martin is really a Jet more than a Patriot and that sucks. His prime was with them not us. Unrelated but I wish the Pats kept rolling with him in that SB 4th quarter it looked like he had started to figure out the Packers defense and that might have neutralized White going after Drew.

Our HOF is really for anyone who made their career as a Patriot I think and did really well wearing this uniform. With Parcells he was only a .500 coach in NE with 2 playoff appearances including 1 SB run (which they were very lucky to get) out of 4 seasons, and that's with the benefit of the #1 overall pick at QB. Parcells is more known for what he did with the Giants than with us. And we all know the circumstances when he left the team. He also tried to undermine our team once he was a Jet such as the Martin poison pill contract and the compensation the Pats would get in return.

 

[jboston19]

I don’t believe any do, although Parcells should be considered. The rest would be celebrating excellent careers spent mostly elsewhere.

Parcells did help turn the team around. I felt like he was here longer but then again, at his departure, he’d been here about a quarter of the amount of time that I’d been alive up to that point. Haha.

 

[Spiral]

What about Tim Fox?

Also, if Jon Morris, Matt Light and Leon Gray are in, what about Pete Brock?

Mike Holovak should also be in.

 

[InRodWeRust]

Painful too. But I'm much softer in my old age after everything we've witnessed.

The pain was dulled when we got that one glorious year from Robert Edwards . . . . but then . . . the incident

 

[Actual Pats Fan]

Actual Pats...because I value facts: Parcells was hired by James Orthwein, the previous owner.

Of course.

And it's funny that someone references Belichick in regards to supporting Parcells. Especially when Belichick himself was pissed off at Parcells for how he handled himself leading into the Super Bowl. Parcells' lack of focus was noted MANY times by players and coaches. And then he leaves without even addressing the team? Come on, stop kissing Parcells' backside. And you know that meddling you're talking about? Parcells wanted one of either of three defensive linemen (Cedric Jones, Duane Clemons, or Tony Brackens) over Terry Glenn, despite Bledsoe desperately needing a deep threat.

100% all supports No, Never for him in the Pats' Hall, which I point out repeatedly to the mostly media who want it. What mitigates it is the tangible good he did for the franchise, including coming here when there were other highly interested suitors. all with much less of a mess for him to inherit. And, Kraft. Unfortunately, I can personally attest to not being able to be totally focused in a situation where I am under the authority and to a degree at the mercy of a train wreck.

True about Glenn. That worked out, but the manner in which it happened was such that it's even surprising that Parcells didn't quit the job right then and there.

 

[Actual Pats Fan]

Unrelated but I wish the Pats kept rolling with him in that SB 4th quarter it looked like he had started to figure out the Packers defense and that might have neutralized White going after Drew.

...and allowed us to keep possession and score, instead of repeatedly turning the ball over to them with Drew's sacks and picks.

 

[captain stone]

There are 11 members of the New England Patriots in the Pro Football Hall of Fame.

Six of them are also in the team's own Hall of Fame:
- John Hannah (1991 Pro HoF, 1991 Pats HoF)
- Nick Buoniconti (1992 Pro, 1992 Pats)
- Mike Haynes (1997 Pro, 1994 Pats)
- Andre Tippett (2008 Pro, 1999 Pats)
- Ty Law (2019 Pro, 2014 Pats)
- Richard Seymour (2022 Pro, 2020 Pats)

Five others are in the Pro Football Hall of Fame, but not in the Patriots Hall of Fame.
- Curtis Martin, 2012 Pro HoF (Pats 1995-1998; NFL 1995-2005)
- Randy Moss, 2018 Pro HoF (Pats 2007-2010; NFL 1998-2012)
- Bill Parcells, 2013 Pro HoF (Pats 1980, 1993-1996; NFL 1980-2010)
- Darrelle Revis, 2023 Pro HoF (Pats 2014; NFL 2017-2017)
- Junior Seau, 2015 Pro HoF (Pats 2006-2009; NFL 1990-2009)

Do any of those last five merit inclusion to the New England Patriots Hall of Fame?

Parcells has been nominated five times, and creates quite a bit of division in regards to his debate. Personally I say no, though some fans - and many in the media who do the nominating - are very much in the pro-Tuna camp.

None of the others have ever been nominated.

In my opinion three seasons should be the bare minimum for consideration; that would eliminate Revis.

Seau was here for four years, but he joined the team late in both of his last two seasons; that may eliminate him as well.

That leaves Randy Moss and Curtis Martin.

Moss was with the Patriots for the most games (56 including playoffs), unless you include Parcells' 1980 season as a linebackers coach under Ron Erhardt. Moss is one of only four players to catch 50 touchdown passes as a Patriot, and ranks 12th in career receiving yards (3,904). The only receivers who averaged more than his 15.1 yards per catch played before the turn of the century, when the passing game was much different than it is now.

Martin ranks third all-time in rushing yardage and sixth in rushing touchdowns. He also ranks 2nd, 9th and 11th for most rushing yards in a single season, as well as 3rd and 4th for most rushing touchdowns in a single season.


Are there any from this group that should be in the Patriots Hall of Fame, in your opinion?

None of the Above.

 

[Stu Pidassle]

The pain was dulled when we got that one glorious year from Robert Edwards . . . . but then . . . the incident

That was one of the worst situations for the team and the player. He seemed like a good guy who definitely worked hard to even come close to a comeback.