Do any of these five deserve to get into the Pats Hall of Fame?

[TheRainMaker]

Painful too. But I'm much softer in my old age after everything we've witnessed.

It was painful watching him shred the Pats D with Parcells smiling after each victory. But in an alternate universe, I don’t think BB/TB are not Patriots had Martin stayed.

 

[Stu Pidassle]

In only six seasons, what he did and accomplished here had historic impact and influence on the Patriots and the sport then and to this day. Ernie Adams and Bill Belichick, to name two, attest to this.

And he did it despite the Sullivans. Billy deserves credit for the hiring, as Chuck was 'controversial' over some recruiting violations at Oklahoma. But he and son Chuck not only did whatever they could to sabotage our Super Bowl chances, they drove Fairbanks out of town.

I cannot blame Chuck at all for leaving or how he did. If you need me to recount how the Sullivans undermined him (in even worse ways than Kraft did to Parcells), I can. Even with all that, in later years Fairbanks expressed regret about it.

He and his players are not responsible for Dreith and Tatum. They should be judged on their own merit and contribution.

The Pats history is colorful, to say the least. In comparison the Kraft years are the most stable and successful in so many ways that it can't be quantified. Despite their warts and weirdness, I think you have to give the Sullivans credit for being the second most influential ownership. They had the vision and perseverance to establish the team, even if the on field product was inconsistent.

The underlying question for Fairbanks inclusion in the Pats HOF is whether it is a representation of management or fans. If this is a HOF for the fans, I agree that he should be included.

 

[signbabybrady]

It was painful watching him shred the Pats D with Parcells smiling after each victory. But in an alternate universe, I don’t think BB/TB are not Patriots had Martin stayed.

The Butterfly effect on that one would be nuts.

 

[Actual Pats Fan]

It disgusted Belichick and he knew Parcells better than any of us. Why should we feel any differently?

Parcells is a boisterous and combative character, which contributes a lot to his success. Yeah, Belichick like most people sees it as a **** move.

The relevant issue to me is that Kraft's behavior disgusted Parcells. And me too.

I know, two wrongs don't make a right. The consensus is, Parcells took it out on the team. Bill obviously found himself unable to keep it under wraps and he certainly wasn't keeping it from Will McDonough.

I have to say I would not want to work for Robert Kraft.

 

[Actual Pats Fan]

The Pats history is colorful, to say the least.

And includes a ton of on field success which the media does not acknowledge.

In comparison the Kraft years are the most stable [financially] and successful [with Brady] in so many ways that it can't be quantified.

clarified

Despite their warts and weirdness

Which the Krafts have in just as much abundance as the Sullivans, IMO.

 

[Actual Pats Fan]

It was painful watching him shred the Pats D with Parcells smiling after each victory. But in an alternate universe, I don’t think BB/TB are not Patriots had Martin stayed.

Can't blame/condemn Parcells for competing against us. He wasn't with us anymore.

 

[Boomer B]

Parcells and Moss

Parcells - yes, he screwed us over creating unwanted distraction during the SB, but he put us on the map. He quickly turned around the team, and had great draft classes, which formed much of the basis for our 1st 3 SB teams.

Moss - he accomplished in a few years what most couldn’t do in a career. I’m generally not for guys who only spent a little bit of time here but Moss is the exception. He had the NFL GREATEST OFFENSIVE SEASON OF ALL TIME in a Patriots uniform. Think about that.

 

[Actual Pats Fan]

If Parcells had gone on to coach the Jets 'normally', as in, waited until the season was done to start negotiating, I might be less against him than I am with how he ACTUALLY left.

Parcells couldn't even focus on a SUPER BOWL without making deals for himself. Even worse, you can tell he wasn't paying attention. Leaving Lane on an island against Reggie with predictable results as Drew kept getting clobbered. Kicking to Howard after being told not to. I think there was something about the coverage on Freeman he ignored, too. And then Parcells leaves without even addressing the team.

It disgusted Belichick and he knew Parcells better than any of us. Why should we feel any differently?

What happened is that when Kraft waltzed in and bought the team he expected everyone including Parcells to kiss his ass.

Which Parcells was never going to do. This was never a healthy working relationship. You could make a case that had Orthwein been able to pack it up and move to St. Louis, Parcells' life would have been a lot easier. It's been documented by McDonough in his typical thorough and accurate way, and it reveals the serious issues Kraft has always had. Bill obviously couldn't wait to get out of here (specifically, away from him), and I don't blame him. I know the feeling.

 

[Actual Pats Fan]

Parcells and Moss

Parcells - yes, he screwed us over creating unwanted distraction during the SB, but he put us on the map. He quickly turned around the team, and had great draft classes, which formed much of the basis for our 1st 3 SB teams.

Moss - he accomplished in a few years what most couldn’t do in a career. I’m generally not for guys who only spent a little bit of time here but Moss is the exception. He had the GREATEST OFFENSIVE SEASON OF ALL TIME in a Patriots uniform. Think about that.

IMO I might go for both based on what you say.

...IF we'd won the Super Bowl both years. We didn't, and unlike in 1976, we deserved to lose.

 

[Boomer B]

IMO I might go for both based on what you say.

...IF we'd won the Super Bowl both years. We didn't, and unlike in 1976, we deserved to lose.

So Tyree catching a ball on his head disqualifies Moss from the Pats HOF?

 

[TheRainMaker]

Can't blame/condemn Parcells for competing against us. He wasn't with us anymore.

You know Parcells and Martin circled the Pats game on their schedule. I do think Parcells tormenting the Pats was one of the reasons Kraft fired Carroll. His decision driving Parcells away backfired badly and he had to take it out on someone.

 

[Tunescribe]

This may not be a good time to mention Tuna was against the makeover Orthwein did a month after hiring him.

Thank for the reminder. Orthwein deserves Hall of Fame consideration for putting this team into DYNASTY uniforms.

 

[Stu Pidassle]

And includes a ton of on field success which the media does not acknowledge.

clarified

Which the Krafts have in just as much abundance as the Sullivans, IMO.

At the end of the day you and I agree on most things with some differences. In the beginning the Pats were a 'typical' AFL team trying to gain respectability. Those teams had their moments and produced many legendary players. Things changed a lot with the establishment of the NFL and the Pats fell a step behind. The Kraft Patriots are definitely more stable financially and ownership only has indirect contribution to on field success. While I know that you have your reasons, BB needs to be acknowledged along with Brady for why the team was more successful under Kraft. The jury is still out on which reign was more weird. Super fan Bob, Matt Millen, cocaine super bowl. Aaron Hernandez, Parcels, etc.. No one would bother to follow sports if it was predictable.

 

[stinkypete]

Moss has the strongest case, followed by Martin, but neither was here long enough.

Hard no to Parcells. He gave up on the team on the eve of the Super Bowl. Raymond Berry did as much with far less than Parcells.

 

[1960Pats]

I know Parcells is a controversial one but I think he should. Between him and Bledsoe they brought relevancy to a team that 5 minutes prior was ready to become the St Louis Stallions. Parcells came into a laughing stock of a franchise and within 2 years had us in the playoffs and later the Super Bowl (granted he had one foot out the door before the opening coin toss).

Don't be falling for that false laughingstock narrative. The Pats had winning teams in every decade of their existence. And there are probably a few teams who were worse, especially in the NFC.

Tuna was good at a few things, but the most impactful were his handling of the press and how well he picked his spots when he moved on, which he did a lot of. He joined teams that were at rock bottom, most times with the top pick in the draft.

And you gave the best reason with your last sentence why Tuna Crap doesn't belong in the Pats HOF. The same goes for Curtis Martin, who gladly rolled out of town with him. Speaking of Martin, how did he qualify for the HOF? I don't remember him being all that special.

 

[1960Pats]

Moss has the strongest case, followed by Martin, but neither was here long enough.

Hard no to Parcells. He gave up on the team on the eve of the Super Bowl. Raymond Berry did as much with far less than Parcells.

I thought I read that Tuna Crap was in touch with the Jets during the entire season.

 

[borg]

- Curtis Martin.....conspired with the enemy
- Randy Moss......limited service, shot his way out
- Bill Parcells.......conspired with enemy, shot his way out
- Darrelle Reviss.....strictly "mercenary"
- Junior Seau.........limited service, Patriots performance was not PHOF worthy

 

[archstanton543]

Don't be falling for that false laughingstock narrative. The Pats had winning teams in every decade of their existence. And there are probably a few teams who were worse, especially in the NFC.

Tuna was good at a few things, but the most impactful were his handling of the press and how well he picked his spots when he moved on, which he did a lot of. He joined teams that were at rock bottom, most times with the top pick in the draft.

And you gave the best reason with your last sentence why Tuna Crap doesn't belong in the Pats HOF. The same goes for Curtis Martin, who gladly rolled out of town with him. Speaking of Martin, how did he qualify for the HOF? I don't remember him being all that special.

They weren't a laughingstock? They're the only team to get banned from MNF. Game blackouts which led to a large portion of the market to become Giants fans. 2-14. 1-15.

They were a laughingstock.

 

[Real fan 02]

Just a guess:

2025 -- Rob Gronkowski
2026 -- Julian Edelman
2027 -- Bill Belichick *
2028 -- Adam Vinatieri
2029 -- Logan Mankins
2030 -- Devin McCourty
2031 -- Wes Welker
2032 -- Dan Koppen
2033 -- Rob Ninkovich
2034 -- Dont'a Hightower

* If Belichick returns to coach in the NFL, the others move up accordingly, due to the four-year retirement clause.

The HOF is supposed to be the highest honor a player, coach, contributing person can recieve as of late it's been questionable. Based on stats alone and how he Trancended the position in the 2010s.. gronk should get in.

 

[signbabybrady]

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