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Its pretty much impossible to play worse defense than that. You can't give up 3 consecutive easy TDs without resistance in the second half of a playoff game and hope to win.

Sure the offense didn't do its part, but the defense was equally as bad.
This was a total team loss.

They were doing what they were told to do. And so were the refs.
 
Then how is our offense so successful?
The point I am not making is not if you can make such an argument but that there is absolutley no evidence it limits the offense.

It's sounds good in principle, but if it were that simple then we wouldn't be setting records every year in different offensive categories.

You aren't taking into account how much of that is offset by superior playcalling or scheme design.

You also aren't taking into account how important Gronkowski would have been in attacking the Ravens nickel defense with the running attack, which is yet another way to make teams choose their poison and will likely be more effective moving forward.

I think we all would like a younger and more complete WR (including BB), but we are not necessarily agreeing on the right way to acquire that kind of player. We are also not agreeing on the level of "need" that the offense has for this player either, so that is a popular debate.

What do you mean if it were that simple? What am I claiming as simple. The offensive is historic partially due to the fact the NFL has become a passing league and primarily due to the fact that we have the best QB in football, The best TE in football, another top 5 TE, the slot machine and the best offensive line coach in football making sure 12 has time to do what he has to do. I never referenced the AFCCG so I don't know how the leap was made that I'm selling short the loss of Gronk. . I don't think any guy who can run a 4.4 and can run a go route is the "answer" because there is no "answer", so much has to go right for a team to win a SB that one facet can't explain away short comings.

If we go into next season with Branch, and Brandon Lloyd as our primary "X" receivers I don't think many people will expect a result in the much different than last months. Our offense is great but I don't think its complete. Like the Giants said after last years superbowl loss, if there is one knock on this team its that we don't necessarily strike quickly. We don't have a single receiver who will consistently win the 1on1. Brady can't throw jump balls and let his receiver make a play. I think adding another dynamic to the offense will do nothing but help. It would open things up underneath and when teams want to sell out on 3rd and 2 and throw 8 in the box trying to bully our receivers/TE's we could throw that back shoulder fade to pick up 15 yards at worst. I also think a lot of our recent playoff loses have A lot to do with poor game planing and adjustments. A record setting offense shouldn't be getting shut out in a half.

I hope that we draft a guy who will develop into a COMPLETE wideout this year. I believe that upgrading the wide receiver position is as big of a need as any this offseason. I don't know where you would place but in my opinion the only other logical place for it to fall would be right behind the secondary.
 
I think what this board consistently misses is the distinction of what went wrong in a game, and what needs to be changed to make the team better. That seems to be why we get square peg in round hole comments such as the playoff losses have been to similar teams when it isn't close to accurate.
Sometimes you play poorly. When that happens the moronic thing to do is to change for change sake and get rid of yor strengths.

Deion Branch can be improved upon. For my money, I would prefer it be a bigger Demaryius Thomas type. Like I said, you improve at WR3 and you also have another capable red zone threat should Gronk bite the dust again before the postseason.

EDIT: For the record, there are quite a few WR's who fit the bigger, physical type in the draft that can be had in rounds 2, 3, and beyond, so it's not out of the question.
 
A more consistent similarity is turnover differential, as well as the lack of a pass rush or ability to stop long drives, or even be competitive on the key ones.

Football is a complementary game. Would a great pass rusher help this team? Yes, he would. I'm not sure what that has to do with our problems on offense. The Patriots get a lot of turnovers during the regular season because (1) teams have to take chances to keep up with our offense and (2) non-playoff QB's generally suck. In the postseason, we can't score, so the opposition can play more conservatively and relaxed, and the QB's are better and less likely to make poor decisions.
 
I don't know how you can give a defense a pass that:
Allowed 3 consecutive TD drives (changing the game from 13-7 to 13-28)
Those drives totalled 197 yards
The Ravens only faced a 3rd down once on all 3 combined and ran for 11 yards on 3rd and 2

Its pretty much impossible to play worse defense than that.
You can't give up 3 consecutive easy TDs without resistance in the second half of a playoff game and hope to win.

Sure the offense didn't do its part, but the defense was equally as bad.
This was a total team loss.

I didn't give the defense a pass. I said that, all things considered, I think it played well enough to give the team a win had the offense been able to punch it in a couple of more times. Even though Talib was lost fairly early on, the first six drives of the Ravens went for five punts and one TD. Like I said, the flood gates broke open after that. Part of that was the defense being gassed, part of it was the Ravens finally pinpointing its weaknesses. In all though, the offense got shut out in the second half and managed one touchdown in several trips into Baltimore territory. It's a team loss, sure. But the offense deserves more blame for this one. And this is coming from a guy that has generally shifted the blame to the defensive side of the ball for the last couple of playoff losses.
 
I'm curious if the people claiming the lack of deep threat is such a critical need, could give a list of the WRs in the NFL that fit that description. Please give a list that has at least 10-15 players. That way it is a realistic list of the type of player we would have if we focussed on it and we at least as good at that spot as 1/3-1/2 of the teams.

"deep threat" isn't a "critical" need its more of a luxury that would be extremely useful. We were a stop away from winning the SB last year without a "deep threat" we don't need one to win but it would make things a hell of a lot easier. Im more interested in a receiver who can threaten 1 on 1 coverage all over the field consistently. It just so happens that these receivers come down with a lot of big plays and are generally regarded as "number 1" receivers.


AFC East: Stevie Johnson
AFC South: TY Hilton, Cecil Shorts, Andre Johnson
AFC North: Torrey Smith, Mike Wallace, Antonio Brown, Emanuel Sanders, AJ Green
AFC West: Dwayne Bowe, Demaryus Thomas, Eric Decker, Jon Baldwin, Moore
NFC East: Victor Cruz, Hakeem Nicks, Desean Jackskon, Maclin, Dez, Garcon
NFC south: Julio Jones, Roddy White, Steve Smith, Lance Moore, Vincent Jackson
NFC North: Marshall, Nelson, Harvin, Johnson
NFC West: Yactree, Fitz

This is in my opinion a quick list of guys who are not only "deep threats" but guys who are developing or on the verge of being complete receivers.
 
If I'm a corner playing against Brandon Lloyd or Dieon Branch. Im getting up in their face at the line and getting my hands on them. Im playing anything underneath 1st and over the top 2nd. I'll give them a step on anything down the field because I know they won't run away from me. Defenses obviously have to defend the entire field but against us the most certainly can and do cheat up.

It's sounds good in principle, but if it were that simple then we wouldn't be setting records every year in different offensive categories.

You aren't taking into account how much of that is offset by superior playcalling or scheme design.

You also aren't taking into account how important Gronkowski would have been in attacking the Ravens nickel defense with the running attack, which is yet another way to make teams choose their poison and will likely be more effective moving forward.

I think we all would like a younger and more complete WR (including BB), but we are not necessarily agreeing on the right way to acquire that kind of player. We are also not agreeing on the level of "need" that the offense has for this player either, so that is a popular debate.

What do you mean if it were that simple? What am I claiming as simple. The offensive is historic partially due to the fact the NFL has become a passing league and primarily due to the fact that we have the best QB in football, The best TE in football, another top 5 TE, the slot machine and the best offensive line coach in football making sure 12 has time to do what he has to do. I never referenced the AFCCG so I don't know how the leap was made that I'm selling short the loss of Gronk. .

I'm not really sure what I said that is confusing you, but I'll try to explain myself better. Keep in mind we are probably in agreement for the most part, besides some of the specifics.

If it were as simple as other teams getting in their faces and cheating up the the LOS, then how did they average 36 points a game this year? Like I said it sounds good in principle, but it just isn't that simple. Obviously talent is going to come into play too, as teams like SEA with better CBs are going to make things more difficult, and that's also likely what is sometimes happening in the playoffs as well, we're seeing more complete defenses and schemes that are well thought out. Sometimes you just have to give credit to the other guys too.

I believe that Belichick and McDaniels know the limitations of their receivers, and that is why superior scheme design and playcalling are so important to our success. Our offense is predicated upon cerebral strengths starting at the QB, who is probably better than any other in the game at reading and adjusting to the opposition's alignment. The object is to take advantage of personnel mismatches and pre-snap reads and adjustments, which is also another reason why it's important for everyone to be on the same page so they can read the same things. Things like this are some of the reasons why Welker is able to get open despite being double covered, or Brady is able to look good with horrible receiving options (not claiming any specifics or years). They are able to outfox the defense and react quicker than their opponent in many of the cases. It isn't just about depending upon Llyod to beat his coverage, or worrying about who is cheating up to the LOS.

Our current offense was set up to allow Brady to have the quickest release in all of football this year, at 2.47 seconds per average throw. That obviously makes the offensive line look good, hides their weaknesses, and takes advantage of quick mismatches within the 2-3 second window where Welker and the shorter route runners make their living.

If we acquired a deep threat WR (I agree with you that we could use an upgrade for a more physical WR, and I agree that having the kinds of speed and skills would make an overall "complete" receiver, so we're on the same page there) Brady would not necessarily be able to take advantage of these traits as much, which would probably lead to more QB hits, more forced throws (Moss 2009 and 2010) and also more turnovers.

As far as referencing Gronk, I meant as an offset to what you were claiming happens to the outside receivers (cheating up and playing more physical). Obviously he offsets some of those problems by stretching the field and catching passes down the seam, which opens things up just as much as a guy like Anquan Bolden (a popular choice lately for example) would do, and possibly even better because he has more of a size advantage which creates more mismatches. I didn't mean to imply that you were suggesting anything about Gronk in general, I was just using him as an example to how we currently have a player who makes other teams have to choose their poison.

My example of the Ravens game was just to point out how that would have been a lot more useful both in the pass and run.

Like I said, we're in agreement with needing a better receiver, and I would have to guess that it's so obvious Belichick wants it too. I just think that we need to keep in mind that it needs to either be done in the draft or through a lower level move which would be cost efficient, which is also what I believe you suggest as well in your last post.

Hopefully they draft a guy in the first couple of picks and also take their chances on some of the lesser known names in free agency too, but I expect at least one/two better receivers this year if you include the upgrade from Branch also.
 
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