PatsFans.com Menu
PatsFans.com - The Hub For New England Patriots Fans

DL & EDGE Players: Run stuffers, designated pass rushers, hybrids, etc


If you're looking for a solid LDE, and assuming Soloman Thomas isn't on the cards, I'd say Taco Charlton (both a RDE and LDE in our system), DeMarcus Walker, Daeshon Hall and maybe Deatrich Wise. Thomas, Walker and Wise are all candidates to play inside too. I'm a big fan of Tarrell Basham to play RDE similarly to Chandler Jones. Ryan Anderson is another possibility.

Just my opinion, I haven't watched these guys to the extent Reamer has though.

Depends what you're looking for, really. Our defense has morphed since Nink was a prime starter at OLB. If you want an all around guy who could play DE or LB, hold up against the run, drop into coverage, and still rush the passer, then Anderson seems like a natural Nink replacement. Maybe Mathis late round?

Otherwise, @manxman2601 listed some guys I like. Basham, Walker, and Taco are favorites at this point.

Unless I totally misheard during a run today I think Jeremiah really thinks Anderson is a perfect player for the Patriots.

I would feel better about picking him in the upper part of the second round via a tradedown (or one of the Browns 2nd rounders for JG) than at 32. Depending on how the board shakes out of course..
 
Last edited:
Unless I totally misheard during a run today I think Jeremiah really things Anderson is a perfect player for the Patriots.

I would feel better about picking him in the upper part of the second round via a tradedown (or one of the Browns 2nd rounders for JG) than at 32. Depending on how the board shakes out of course..

I'd feel better taking him lower in the 2nd personally. Not sure he has the game making ability to go that high. I want a playmaker in the top 50.
 
Open to taking requests for the next breakdowns. I have so many players still to profile, and I can't decide where to go next. This class is insane.


Good idea.;)
From your list:
Chris Wormley, Carroll Phillips - Pats had official contacts with both (not much film on Phillips though)
Charles Harris - serious DL/ED option fro #32; im curious to read your assessment on his setting edge and overplaying - and how you compare him to other two great DL/ED options Basham and Walker who might be available further down (if Hightower leaves #32 goes to LB I guess) and you can add Wise while you're at it for comparison (Day 2-3 option)
Ryan Anderson - also in light of Hightower situation and due to mixed feelings here

And the possible DL options: Brantley, Adams, Ogunjobi, Tomlinson


Sorry for not making the list much shorter.

Then again: Gilbert - another NE contact - would be nice, Biegel, Vanderdoes and Taylor from DTs .. you're right, the list just doesn't end..
 
Good idea.;)
From your list:
Chris Wormley, Carroll Phillips - Pats had official contacts with both (not much film on Phillips though)
Charles Harris - serious DL/ED option fro #32; im curious to read your assessment on his setting edge and overplaying - and how you compare him to other two great DL/ED options Basham and Walker who might be available further down (if Hightower leaves #32 goes to LB I guess) and you can add Wise while you're at it for comparison (Day 2-3 option)
Ryan Anderson - also in light of Hightower situation and due to mixed feelings here

And the possible DL options: Brantley, Adams, Ogunjobi, Tomlinson


Sorry for not making the list much shorter.

Then again: Gilbert - another NE contact - would be nice, Biegel, Vanderdoes and Taylor from DTs .. you're right, the list just doesn't end..

I gotta say, I'm disappointed in your meager offerings. Can't you put a little effort into compiling a slightly more comprehensive list???
 
Still working through Anderson breakdowns, but I'll give you guys a brief spoiler: he's way more athletic/versatile than I originally believed. If Hightower does move on, Anderson looks more and more like a good bet to replace him. I still have another half dozen games to go through my list, but so far I'm pleasantly surprised by his speed and agility.

Bonus gif. Nice job not selling out his rush upfield. He comes back inside for the counter and gets the sack:

 
Still working through Anderson breakdowns, but I'll give you guys a brief spoiler: he's way more athletic/versatile than I originally believed. If Hightower does move on, Anderson looks more and more like a good bet to replace him. I still have another half dozen games to go through my list, but so far I'm pleasantly surprised by his speed and agility.

Bonus gif. Nice job not selling out his rush upfield. He comes back inside for the counter and gets the sack:



Thanks! One of my first real prospects for BB. Glad of your impressions.

I was just going through some mocks on new CBS board and it was suddenly hard to squeeze good LB (Davis/Raek/Zach-i know you don't like his game but i believe he can be a stud) and good ED (Harris/D Walker/Basham) to #32 and #64.

Then I thought of Anderson of course.. 2 in 1.

I think Anderson is real possibility . bc he'll probably not put Combine on fire..

If he could somehow fall to #64 then Des King-Anderson could be a good start of Draft..
 
Desmond King as a CB or Safety?
 
Desmond King as a CB or Safety?

Well, definitely not EDGE. :p

Depends on scheme. King can do well at corner in some defenses. I think he'd be a terrific safety in every scheme, though, because he has good instincts, toughness, and ball skills. It's the long speed on the perimeter that worries me, but that would be mitigated if he's facing the action and just making plays on the ball.
 
Desmond King as a CB or Safety?


both+ST. that would be the point of the highest pick.
a solid guy all over DB depending on game plan and matchups.
he can be your Ryan, Harmon and Chung

Id love to see him work with BB and MP. I believe he's for real. In Foxboro he could become Diamond King.

And then .. just look at this face!

upload_2017-3-3_3-32-18.png
 
Still working through Anderson breakdowns, but I'll give you guys a brief spoiler: he's way more athletic/versatile than I originally believed. If Hightower does move on, Anderson looks more and more like a good bet to replace him. I still have another half dozen games to go through my list, but so far I'm pleasantly surprised by his speed and agility.

Bonus gif. Nice job not selling out his rush upfield. He comes back inside for the counter and gets the sack:


So reminiscent of Ninkovich.
 
Since I didn't do a lot of gifs for Willis, I figured I'd cut a few more after his impressive Combine performance. He definitely has potential, but I'll try to outline some of my concerns. His play speed never matches his timed speed, and it usually comes down to indecision. I think with proper coaching, he can be a pro bowl caliber player; he's simply not there yet, however, which is why I have a tough time giving him anything better than 2nd round grade.

Draftbreakdown just put up a new cut of one of his games. You can see the burst off the edge, but also some troubling tendencies with his technique. I'll go through a few examples and try to explain. On the plus side, he's young and still learning. His coaches love him, so I have no doubt he'd do whatever asked of him if he ended up here. Let's dive in.

Pursuit in the open field looks tentative. He has the speed to get out there and blow up this play, but as is often the case, he's hesitant and overly careful. I like the discipline to play the run first (although I'd prefer him to stay square and squeeze the line, instead of getting upfield), but once he realized it's a pass and moved toward the flat, I don't know why he started to change his angle and break down to make the tackle before he was in range. He ends up leaning and reaching for the runner, and while he makes the tackle, they give up the first down. Is he overthinking? He has all the tools to make a great play. This might sound harsh, but a more decisive player with lesser speed will make a tackle for no gain in this scenario.




This next clip is so disheartening to watch. He labors to disengage. It's helpful to slow the clip down to half speed (click on the gear and adjust speed). He gets a good jump on the snap, and is a full step farther upfield than his linemates. He then gets his hands up, but because of his odd stance he has no power from his lower half in his punch. Instead of extending, and controlling, he just makes contact and keeps running the arc. Notice how many steps he takes after contact: 5 - 6 steps before he ducks under the block and makes his way to the quarterback. By the time he's in the backfield, the QB (Mahomes) has plenty of time to step up and make the throw.



Why am I being so nitpicky? Compare his rush to Derek Barnett working against Cam Robinson, who is a legitimate 1st round pick and should be a starting tackle for a long time in the league. Watch him bend, dip and rip, and keep his feet moving through contact. He takes 3 steps from first contact to beating the block, and then he flattens his angle and is now running parallel to the line of scrimmage toward the quarterback, reducing the distance he needs to cover for the sack. (I'd love to see Barnett fall to our range. Great player. Probably my favorite edge in this draft, other than Walker.)



Another rush, another struggle to disengage. With his testing numbers, he should be threatening the edge a lot harder, and then he should have the quickness and explosion to make a hard inside move. Instead, it's like he's velcroed to the OT. His hands and feet don't work in sync. He doesn't gather his base before contact. He just reaches with his hands and gets pushed backward. His feet go nearly dead on contact. He needs to get low, extend his arms, and then violently come back the other way on this move.



Note: I don't care if players make or don't make the play in college football. I do care, however, if they show transferrable traits. Despite all of his impressive speed, agility testing, and jumping prowess, Willis is a mess on the field who takes himself out of the play more than the blocker does. With the right coach, he can be an absolute force, but he's 1 - 2 years away from a breakout season. I'd like to have him here, but he would be a long-term understudy, not an instant super star like his numbers might indicate.
 
Last edited:
Since I didn't do a lot of gifs for Willis, I figured I'd cut a few more after his impressive Combine performance. He definitely has potential, but I'll try to outline some of my concerns. His play speed never matches his timed speed, and it usually comes down to indecision. I think with proper coaching, he can be a pro bowl caliber player; he's simply not there yet, however, which is why I have a tough time giving him anything better than 2nd round grade.

Draftbreakdown just put up a new cut of one of his games. You can see the burst off the edge, but also some troubling tendencies with his technique. I'll go through a few examples and try to explain. On the plus side, he's young and still learning. His coaches love him, so I have no doubt he'd do whatever asked of him if he ended up here. Let's dive in.

Pursuit in the open field looks tentative. He has the speed to get out there and blow up this play, but as is often the case, he's hesitant and overly careful. I like the discipline to play the run first (although I'd prefer him to stay square and squeeze the line, instead of getting upfield), but once he realized it's a pass and moved toward the flat, I don't know why he started to change his angle and break down to make the tackle before he was in range. He ends up leaning and reaching for the runner, and while he makes the tackle, they give up the first down. Is he overthinking? He has all the tools to make a great play. This might sound harsh, but a more decisive player with lesser speed will make a tackle for no gain in this scenario.




This next clip is so disheartening to watch. He labors to disengage. It's helpful to slow the clip down to half speed (click on the gear and adjust speed). He gets a good jump on the snap, and is a full step farther upfield than his linemates. He then gets his hands up, but because of his odd stance he has no power from his lower half in his punch. Instead of extending, and controlling, he just makes contact and keeps running the arc. Notice how many steps he takes after contact: 5 - 6 steps before he ducks under the block and makes his way to the quarterback. By the time he's in the backfield, the QB (Mahomes) has plenty of time to step up and make the throw.



Why am I being so nitpicky? Compare his rush to Derek Barnett working against Cam Robinson, who is a legitimate 1st round pick and should be a starting tackle for a long time in the league. Watch him bend, dip and rip, and keep his feet moving through contact. He takes 3 steps from first contact to beating the block, and then he flattens his angle and is now running parallel to the line of scrimmage toward the quarterback, reducing the distance he needs to cover for the sack. (I'd love to see Barnett fall to our range. Great player. Probably my favorite edge in this draft, other than Walker.)



Another rush, another struggle to disengage. With his testing numbers, he should be threatening the edge a lot harder, and then he should have the quickness and explosion to make a hard inside move. Instead, it's like he's velcroed to the OT. His hands and feet don't work in sync. He doesn't gather his base before contact. He just reaches with his hands and gets pushed backward. His feet go nearly dead on contact. He needs to get low, extend his arms, and then violently come back the other way on this move.



Note: I don't care if players make or don't make the play in college football. I do care, however, if they show transferrable traits. Despite all of his impressive speed, agility testing, and jumping prowess, Willis is a mess on the field who takes himself out of the play more than the blocker does. With the right coach, he can be an absolute force, but he's 1 - 2 years away from a breakout season. I'd like to have him here, but he would be a long-term understudy, not an instant super star like his numbers might indicate.


Great job, reamer.

I don't take too much on Combine # but in his case they opened potential on some of his Qs. Moreover, he really looked good in drills (in little that I could see).

My feeling lately is that he has upside to most competition and despite clumsiness he does look like a football player and he certainly has a football heart.

He reminds me a little of watching Valentine on tape last yr. He will probably not last until 3rd round unfortunately (although who knows in this insane class) but I would feel very good about the Flowers-Willis duo in 2018. I think they would go well together.
__

PS
you can call me crazy - but many times in life I go by the face.
I trust this one:
upload_2017-3-7_23-38-1.png
 
Last edited:
I'd advise people to watch Willis' Texas game tape. A destructive force. On the other hand, his Stanford tape was less good.

Yeah, he has some really good tape for sure. I should mention that I actually like Willis, and I think I was the first one to bring him up on this board as a potential fit. I just have concerns that keep me from stamping him as the Next Big Thing. If he's there at 64, or if we acquire a mid round 2nd and he's available, I'd be happy with the pick.
 
Yeah, he has some really good tape for sure. I should mention that I actually like Willis, and I think I was the first one to bring him up on this board as a potential fit. I just have concerns that keep me from stamping him as the Next Big Thing. If he's there at 64, or if we acquire a mid round 2nd and he's available, I'd be happy with the pick.
I just posted my scouting report on Willis. It looks like we see things very similarly. On a side note, do you know how hard it is not to look at this thread? I have to power through about 10 more guys before I can really dive into this, but I can tell you put a lot of time and hard work into this and you deserve a lot of praise. Glad to see someone's work I respect see these prospects in a similar fashion.
 
Heard a rumor that Takk McKinley only got a 3 on his Wonderlic. I don't know if that's true or not, but if so, it's a pretty big red flag. He had learning disabilities and poor scores in high school. We demand a lot from players. Just something to mull over.
 
Yeah, he has some really good tape for sure. I should mention that I actually like Willis, and I think I was the first one to bring him up on this board as a potential fit. I just have concerns that keep me from stamping him as the Next Big Thing. If he's there at 64, or if we acquire a mid round 2nd and he's available, I'd be happy with the pick.

Are you starting to get the feeling we are better off in the top 18, or around the mid 40s? I feel we will get pretty well the same guy at 32 that we would get at 45, so I am thinking a trade back (or up) would make a lot of sense. Then move up from one of our 3rds with the extras from a trade back.

There just aren't very many guys in our range that don't come with some warts. Some warts more significant than others.
 


TRANSCRIPT: Patriots QB Drake Maye Conference Call
Patriots Now Have to Get to Work After Taking Maye
TRANSCRIPT: Eliot Wolf and Jerod Mayo After Patriots Take Drake Maye
Thursday Patriots Notebook 4/25: News and Notes
Patriots Kraft ‘Involved’ In Decision Making?  Zolak Says That’s Not the Case
MORSE: Final First Round Patriots Mock Draft
Slow Starts: Stark Contrast as Patriots Ponder Which Top QB To Draft
Wednesday Patriots Notebook 4/24: News and Notes
Tuesday Patriots Notebook 4/23: News and Notes
MORSE: Final 7 Round Patriots Mock Draft, Matthew Slater News
Back
Top