Did McDaniels abandon the shotgun most of last sunday's game or did I miss it?

[PATRIOTSFANINPA]

I didn't get a chance to look at the game or highlights again as every loss is too painful to view for awhile but I was wondering why the shotgun was not used as often as it was in the past few games.

I think we all know Cassel has done well in running the ball and passing from the shotgun position but if I remember correctly the shotgun was not used much on sunday and since Cassel at this point has very poor pocket presence it was not to his strengths against such a fierce and good defensive line of Pittsburgh,Matt had absolutely no idea of where any defender was coming from towards the pocket.

In Harrison's 2 strip sacks on Cassel,did any come from a shotgun formation?

Did the weather affect the decision to forgo the shotgun?

 

[lostjumper]

My guess woudl be the cold driving rain had something to do with the desicion...

 

[ctpatsfan77]

In Harrison's 2 strip sacks on Cassel,did any come from a shotgun formation?

All of the sacks came in the shotgun.

 

[maverick4]

All of the sacks came in the shotgun.

We use shot-gun WAY TOO much.

It tells the defense we are passing, the DE's just tee off on our slow offensive tackles and don't worry about the run. We get killed for it, but our OC just loves it, over 1/3 the plays he calls are shotgun formations this season.

 

[Deus Irae]

We use shot-gun WAY TOO much.

It tells the defense we are passing, the DE's just tee off on our slow offensive tackles and don't worry about the run. We get killed for it, but our OC just loves it, over 1/3 the plays he calls are shotgun formations this season.

 

[FreeTedWilliams]

The play I really questioned was the 2 and 1 at the Pittsburgh 31 yard line on the openiong drive of the second half. The Pats come out in shotgun with an empty backfield. 2nd and one, at the very least line up under center, a great play-action down, or just run it for the first down and put yourself into field goal range at the very least. Instead he goes shotgun empty backfield. Cassel gets sacked 2and one becomes 3rd and 7, incomplete and have to punt.

Pittsburgh gets the ball, goes downfield kicks a field goal, Slater fumbles, touchdown, down by ten points in minutes. That 2nd and one call really truned the game.

 

[maverick4]

The play I really questioned was the 2 and 1 at the Pittsburgh 31 yard line on the openiong drive of the second half. The Pats come out in shotgun with an empty backfield. 2nd and one, at the very least line up under center, a great play-action down, or just run it for the first down and put yourself into field goal range at the very least. Instead he goes shotgun empty backfield. Cassel gets sacked 2and one becomes 3rd and 7, incomplete and have to punt.

Pittsburgh gets the ball, goes downfield kicks a field goal, Slater fumbles, touchdown, down by ten points in minutes. That 2nd and one call really truned the game.

Completely abandon any advantage that comes with deception or taking advantage of situations like a 2nd and 1 where even if you are passing, at least start in a formation that has the threat of a run. To go shot-gun in that situation is all you need to know about our offense, just telegraphing what we are doing without awareness, context, or subtlety.

 

[emoney_33]

The play I really questioned was the 2 and 1 at the Pittsburgh 31 yard line on the openiong drive of the second half. The Pats come out in shotgun with an empty backfield. 2nd and one, at the very least line up under center, a great play-action down, or just run it for the first down and put yourself into field goal range at the very least. Instead he goes shotgun empty backfield. Cassel gets sacked 2and one becomes 3rd and 7, incomplete and have to punt.

Pittsburgh gets the ball, goes downfield kicks a field goal, Slater fumbles, touchdown, down by ten points in minutes. That 2nd and one call really truned the game.

Yea let's blame the shotgun on a sack, pitt driving the football down the field and a fumble on the kickoff... amazing!

Let's choose specific plays and analyze them based on their outcome and subsequent plays and forget specific plays that have great results (like Faulk's huge run to put the team in position to score at the end of the 1st half).

 

[emoney_33]

Completely abandon any advantage that comes with deception or taking advantage of situations like a 2nd and 1 where even if you are passing, at least start in a formation that has the threat of a run. To go shot-gun in that situation is all you need to know about our offense, just telegraphing what we are doing without awareness, context, or subtlety.

Or you can go back and watch the Faulk run that put us in position to score at the end of the first half and quit with your blind hatred...

Running out of the shotgun has brought a lot of success the last 2-3 weeks, but forget the facts, just spout out hypotheticals and theories.

 

[ctpatsfan77]

The play I really questioned was the 2 and 1 at the Pittsburgh 31 yard line on the openiong drive of the second half. The Pats come out in shotgun with an empty backfield. 2nd and one, at the very least line up under center, a great play-action down, or just run it for the first down and put yourself into field goal range at the very least. Instead he goes shotgun empty backfield. Cassel gets sacked 2and one becomes 3rd and 7, incomplete and have to punt.

Since I wasn't able to watch the game, I can only posit a guess--in theory, going five wides has a chance of opening up holes in the middle of the field for Cassel to run, or at least sneak, for the first down.

If there's one playcalling tendency over the last few years that has annoyed me, it's not the empty backfield, it's where they try to go for a home run when a steady stream of singles and doubles is working.

 

[maverick4]

If there's one playcalling tendency over the last few years that has annoyed me, it's not the empty backfield, it's where they try to go for a home run when a steady stream of singles and doubles is working.

How is that not a perfect example of what you just complained about? Going 5 wide, not for a QB sneak but an actual pass play on 2nd and 1, without even trying to keep up a threat of a run, is exactly going for a home run instead of going for a double.

 

[FreeTedWilliams]

Yea let's blame the shotgun on a sack, pitt driving the football down the field and a fumble on the kickoff... amazing!

Let's choose specific plays and analyze them based on their outcome and subsequent plays and forget specific plays that have great results (like Faulk's huge run to put the team in position to score at the end of the 1st half).

I wasn't blaming the shotgun, I was blaming the lack of a RB, 2nd and one, have a back in the backfiled, go play action, but to come out with an empty backfiled on 2nd and one, is just plain dumb, it removes the entire advantage of being in 2nd and one.
.

 

[MrBigglesWorth]

We use shot-gun WAY TOO much.

It tells the defense we are passing, the DE's just tee off on our slow offensive tackles and don't worry about the run. We get killed for it, but our OC just loves it, over 1/3 the plays he calls are shotgun formations this season.

that is so "silly"

this offense scored the most point in nfl history last year.

 

[MrBigglesWorth]

The play I really questioned was the 2 and 1 at the Pittsburgh 31 yard line on the openiong drive of the second half. The Pats come out in shotgun with an empty backfield. 2nd and one, at the very least line up under center, a great play-action down, or just run it for the first down and put yourself into field goal range at the very least. Instead he goes shotgun empty backfield. Cassel gets sacked 2and one becomes 3rd and 7, incomplete and have to punt.

Pittsburgh gets the ball, goes downfield kicks a field goal, Slater fumbles, touchdown, down by ten points in minutes. That 2nd and one call really truned the game.

sounds like the superbowl!!!!!! just when they went for it on 4th down after a sack instead of playing conservative and running the ball for field goal range

 

[letekro]

Yea let's blame the shotgun on a sack, pitt driving the football down the field and a fumble on the kickoff... amazing!

Let's choose specific plays and analyze them based on their outcome and subsequent plays and forget specific plays that have great results (like Faulk's huge run to put the team in position to score at the end of the 1st half).

Reason will get you nowhere on this board, friend.

 

[ctpatsfan77]

How is that not a perfect example of what you just complained about? Going 5 wide, not for a QB sneak but an actual pass play on 2nd and 1, without even trying to keep up a threat of a run, is exactly going for a home run instead of going for a double.

Again, without seeing the tape, I can't say how good or bad the call was in that specific case. But when you have a QB who can run the way Cassel can, it's not inherently a bad idea.

And even if the pass is incomplete, there's still third down. The "home run" I'm talking about is trying for 20 yards on 3rd-and-1.

 

[Rob0729]

Although I thought McDaniels called a bad game on Sunday, I don't think it had anything to do with abandoning the shotgun. I blame him like I blamed Weis before him for the inability to convert 3rd downs. When you go Ofer on 3rd down until the last one in garbage time, it was a poorly called game.

I won't argue this predictability in the shotgun other than early in the game, even the dominant Steelers defense were getting tricked on the draw out of the shotgun. If the Pats weren't forced to pass almost exclusively in the second half, Faulk might have been the first RB to gain 100 yards on the Steelers in a long time the way he was running early.

 

[TealSox]

Completely abandon any advantage that comes with deception or taking advantage of situations like a 2nd and 1 where even if you are passing, at least start in a formation that has the threat of a run. To go shot-gun in that situation is all you need to know about our offense, just telegraphing what we are doing without awareness, context, or subtlety.

I hear what you are saying....

and I think they should had employed a "pistol" offense that Thigpen and the Chiefs used to beat the Raiders last weekend. I was at the game and I thought it was near genius given the fact that Thigpen lines up in short-shotgun formation with a running back three yards behind him.

While he was lined up in the shotgun, the threat of the run was just as likely.

On the topic of the Pats...

I guess we all know that the short pass is an extension of the running game. I just wasn't going to work against the Steelers in the rain.

 

[ALP]

I hear what you are saying....

and I think they should had employed a "pistol" offense that Thigpen and the Chiefs used to beat the Raiders last weekend. I was at the game and I thought it was near genius given the fact that Thigpen lines up in short-shotgun formation with a running back three yards behind him.

While he was lined up in the shotgun, the threat of the run was just as likely.

On the topic of the Pats...

I guess we all know that the short pass is an extension of the running game. I just wasn't going to work against the Steelers in the rain.

that formatino sounds realy fun.....but i suppose the rb gets a better view of the d standing next to the qb

 

[maverick4]

that is so "silly"

this offense scored the most point in nfl history last year.

Having the most talented players doesn't mean your play calling was perfect.

We telegraph plays the same way the Rams used to telegraph their plays of slants and in cuts, which were stopped by us. We telegraph the same way the Colts of 01-04 played, in which we worshipped regular season stats and then routinely got stopped in the playoffs.