DEFENSIVE LINE - ONLY FIVE DL'S ON OUR TOP FIVE DEFENSE?

[Real fan 02]

Is Barmore is worth this much to ghe Defense, we certainly should have signed another Barmore at a similar price in free agency.

Those types of players are so tough to find.. guys like big Seymour, Chris Jones.. Julius peppers.. Those guys with cat like quickness, speed and power at 6'6.

 

[Real fan 02]

How much easier did Barmore and Judon make the secondary's job?

Much easier. However it works hand and hand. How much easier did ty and Rodney make it for the front to get after the passer?

 

[Ring 6]

Guyton, springs, burgess, whilthite, Wheatley, Philip adams, sterling moore...

You left this out on purpose... like you always do. Those Great ALL PRO players I mentioned above were more than adequate replacements by your logic. LOL

Stop trying to defend your incorrect statement. I don’t really care to discuss stuff with you any more because you clearly just throw stuff out there, it’s wrong and then you backtrack and try to change what you said. It’s not worth my time

 

[Real fan 02]

Stop trying to defend your incorrect statement. I don’t really care to discuss stuff with you any more because you clearly just throw stuff out there, it’s wrong and then you backtrack and try to change what you said. It’s not worth my time

Stop being childish it's a forum. I put that stat up there deal with it. You know it's true so stop ignoring the obvious. Anyways who cares!

 

[Clonamery]

Stop being childish it's a forum. I put that stat up there deal with it. You know it's true so stop ignoring the obvious. Anyways who cares!

The indelible mark of rightness cares.

 

[Ring 6]

Stop being childish it's a forum. I put that stat up there deal with it. You know it's true so stop ignoring the obvious. Anyways who cares!

It’s fine that’s your MO. You throw stuff out there and then don’t care about accuracy.
Not my style. I don’t say things unless I check them out and think them through and if I were to do so I would stand corrected (like I did a few days ago when mgteich pointed out I had a wrong cap number)
There is too much discussion on this board to deal with people who act as you do. It just makes any reasonable discussion impossible. You’ve done it before by intentionally overrating players to cover an argument you can’t support particularly about the defense, and now you e done it with a clear fact. There is no way to discuss anything if there is integrity to what you say.

You can find someone else to do that with.

 

[Clonamery]

It’s fine that’s your MO. You throw stuff out there and then don’t care about accuracy.
Not my style. I don’t say things unless I check them out and think them through and if I were to do so I would stand corrected (like I did a few days ago when mgteich pointed out I had a wrong cap number)
There is too much discussion on this board to deal with people who act as you do. It just makes any reasonable discussion impossible. You’ve done it before by intentionally overrating players to cover an argument you can’t support particularly about the defense, and now you e done it with a clear fact. There is no way to discuss anything if there is integrity to what you say.

You can find someone else to do that with.

Style points on a football forum are overrated. It's basically an outhouse with memes, gifs, tweets, media and farts (opinions).

 

[Ring 6]

Style points on a football forum are overrated. It's basically an outhouse with memes, gifs, tweets, media and farts (opinions).

I’m not talking about style points. The guy can post whatever he wants. Im
just saying I don’t want get involved in black hole discussions that are an exercise in someone digging deeper to defend things they know are wrong. They are useless and I see this guy as that kind of poster.
As an example it’s pointless to have a discussion about our DL when someone says “don’t worry it’s fine” then you point out 2 of the 4 guys who played basically all the snaps are gone and you get back the Friends U guy with 90 career snaps at 27 years old “flashed” and we picked up a guy who was cut, so we are fine is a discussion that is going no where.
I’m not good at meeting those lie, so I am identifying people who have that MO and informing them we shouldn’t have conversations.

 

[Vindicate]

Much easier. However it works hand and hand. How much easier did ty and Rodney make it for the front to get after the passer?

My point being we're not too familiar with how good this secondary actually is without that talent. Does Mayo have the coaching prowess to account for that? I was confident Bill could. Sure, Bill did great with great talent, but he could also get the most out of players, unlike a lot of coaches. He put them in the right place to succeed quite often.

I don't think it's a very hot take to say Bill was incredible with defense, and therefore, that remains to be the biggest question I have going into this season: what is the defense gonna look like?

 

[Real fan 02]

You

My point being we're not too familiar with how good this secondary actually is without that talent. Does Mayo have the coaching prowess to account for that? I was confident Bill could. Sure, Bill did great with great talent, but he could also get the most out of players, unlike a lot of coaches. He put them in the right place to succeed quite often.

I don't think it's a very hot take to say Bill was incredible with defense, and therefore, that remains to be the biggest question I have going into this season: what is the defense gonna look like?

You make great points. Bill was a savant at defense and no one can ever replicate Bill or brady. It's just such an unreal feat.

The principals are there for the defense. However covington said he will be more aggressive. You have to be as a defense can't just lay back and play zone and let offenses get into a rhythm and think you can stop teams in the red zone. It's just to easy for offenses with the rules.

I've never had concerns on the defensive side as I've had for the offense. Loosing judon and Barmore stinks. Other guys will have to step up. We play so many different fronts to keep offenses off balance that in It's self makes the defense tough to counter. It's not like San Fran or the Jets who stay in the same formations and just beat you 1 on 1.

Our defense makes it hard for offenses to adjust.

 

[dliverey44]

Those types of players are so tough to find.. guys like big Seymour, Chris Jones.. Julius peppers.. Those guys with cat like quickness, speed and power at 6'6.

I would have loved to see them get in the Christian Wilkins sweepstake, Pass rush up the middle seems much more disrupting than outside. I think that they were hoping to use White next to Barmore which would have made Wilkins too big of a luxury purchase.

 

[Real fan 02]

I would have loved to see them get in the Christian Wilkins sweepstake, Pass rush up the middle seems much more disrupting than outside. I think that they were hoping to use White next to Barmore which would have made Wilkins too big of a luxury purchase.

Your right. Is why it stinks loosing Barmore. I believe you see us address the D line next draft and outside LB as well. A guy to watch is McMillan. This guy can bring it whenever healthy

 

[Real fan 02]

I’m not talking about style points. The guy can post whatever he wants. Im
just saying I don’t want get involved in black hole discussions that are an exercise in someone digging deeper to defend things they know are wrong. They are useless and I see this guy as that kind of poster.
As an example it’s pointless to have a discussion about our DL when someone says “don’t worry it’s fine” then you point out 2 of the 4 guys who played basically all the snaps are gone and you get back the Friends U guy with 90 career snaps at 27 years old “flashed” and we picked up a guy who was cut, so we are fine is a discussion that is going no where.
I’m not good at meeting those lie, so I am identifying people who have that MO and informing them we shouldn’t have conversations.

Earnie adams has nothing on you!

 

[mgteich]

My point being we're not too familiar with how good this secondary actually is without that talent. Does Mayo have the coaching prowess to account for that? I was confident Bill could. Sure, Bill did great with great talent, but he could also get the most out of players, unlike a lot of coaches. He put them in the right place to succeed quite often.

I don't think it's a very hot take to say Bill was incredible with defense, and therefore, that remains to be the biggest question I have going into this season: what is the defense gonna look like?

The secondary is our best unit, certainly on the Defense. And everyone returns from injuries: Gonzo, Jones and Jones. This is the group I worry about least. We have even upgraded a bit at safety from Bledsoe to Hawkins.

 

[Real fan 02]

The secondary is our best unit, certainly on the Defense. And everyone returns from injuries: Gonzo, Jones and Jones. This is the group I worry about least. We have even upgraded a bit at safety from Bledsoe to Hawkins.

Glad to see you touch on that. I've mentioned this before that we have a great secondary and without that elite rusher.. we will rely on them to cover to allow the front to get home. I'm also interested to see who steps up. I'd like to say Uche.. but I need to see more.

Hawkins yes I really like. Wilson at CB has also grown on me.

 

[mgteich]

Glad to see you touch on that. I've mentioned this before that we have a great secondary and without that elite rusher.. we will rely on them to cover to allow the front to get home. I'm also interested to see who steps up. I'd like to say Uche.. but I need to see more.

Hawkins yes I really like. Wilson at CB has also grown on me.

Yes, we need 3 or so players in the front seven to step up. In any case, absent injuries we have a good Defense.

The issue is that we are sitting on $30M o unusued cap money (having $10M now like half the teams seems to be OK and gives us flexability).

$30M AAV for the first year of 3-4 year contracts could have bought 2-3 players and had Cap space left over.

 

[Patriot Missile]

It’s hard to argue when one poster believes that points allowed/ppg are the ultimate stat when it comes to defense. The other poster points out a stat ranking them as the 31st ranked defense because they are basing off of yards given up via pass or rush.

 

[Vindicate]

The secondary is our best unit, certainly on the Defense. And everyone returns from injuries: Gonzo, Jones and Jones. This is the group I worry about least. We have even upgraded a bit at safety from Bledsoe to Hawkins.

I agree it's the best unit. It's still fair to ask the question I'm asking. I'm not disputing that at all.

I don't understand why I'm getting resistance in wondering how our better unit will perform when another unit, that work in tandem, has lost its two best players, and makes the job more difficult for the secondary. What will Mayo do, defensively and scheme-wise to account for that?

I feel like this is hardly a controversial take, at all. Because that is parallel to your initial question: how is the D-Line?

If it has taken a hit on both coaching and players, then it will affect your strongest unit. If your strongest unit is affected, it further opens up weaknesses on your D-Line. However, we are very aware of the players we have. The biggest question mark remains the coaching, imo.

Also, Real Fan, I didn't say you needed an elite pass rusher. I said we lost two of our best people at the line.

This is 101. That's why I'm asking the question.

 

[Real fan 02]

Yes, we need 3 or so players in the front seven to step up. In any case, absent injuries we have a good Defense.

The issue is that we are sitting on $30M o unusued cap money (having $10M now like half the teams seems to be OK and gives us flexability).

$30M AAV for the first year of 3-4 year contracts could have bought 2-3 players and had Cap space left over.

That's true. At that time I'm sure mayo was looking at the fact we had judon and Barmore. So that likely played into why we likely didn't try to go after another pass rusher.. interior rushers are tough to find. Now the guys we do have.. Xiemmenes, McMillan, white, Uche.. I believe those guys can line up Inside and outside to rush.. that's where our sack numbers will likely come from. We will also be a blitz team as well. Safety blitz, corner blitz, offenses will never know who's coming and wixh Safety will play deep. The QB can't identify the Safety correctly than that's always an advantage.

 

[Real fan 02]

I agree it's the best unit. It's still fair to ask the question I'm asking. I'm not disputing that at all.

I don't understand why I'm getting resistance in wondering how our better unit will perform when another unit, that work in tandem, has lost its two best players, and makes the job more difficult for the secondary. What will Mayo do, defensively and scheme-wise to account for that?

I feel like this is hardly a controversial take, at all. Because that is parallel to your initial question: how is the D-Line?

If it has taken a hit on both coaching and players, then it will affect your strongest unit. If your strongest unit is affected, it further opens up weaknesses on your D-Line. However, we are very aware of the players we have. The biggest question mark remains the coaching, imo.

Also, Real Fan, I didn't say you needed an elite pass rusher. I said we lost two of our best people at the line.

This is 101. That's why I'm asking the question.

Yes know. I was just touching out that we are within our 2 best rushers as you mentioned jaut now. So I had just mentioned to @mgteich about what we will likely do with the absence or an elite rusher.