Defense

[JackBauer]

Depending on Woods/Crable and whomever they draft at OLB, this defense has a ton of potential.

 

[JackBauer]

I don't think the defense will be very good this year.

Unless the young CB's and LB's show up this will be a middle of the pack defense.

Did they not show up last year? Crable is the only unknown.

 

[MrBigglesWorth]

Depending on Woods/Crable and whomever they draft at OLB, this defense has a ton of potential.

it had potential last year until half of them got injured

luck is a major piece to the pie

 

[Brady to Brown]

Did they not show up last year? Crable is the only unknown.

I don't know if they showed up. Can you tell me our CB's and S's are good?

The young LB's other than Mayo did not play enough to show me anything.

 

[MrBigglesWorth]

I don't know if they showed up. Can you tell me our CB's and S's are good?

The young LB's other than Mayo did not play enough to show me anything.

bingo, too many people were dinged up

 

[AzPatsFan]

I don't think the defense will be very good this year.

Unless the young CB's and LB's show up this will be a middle of the pack defense.

Since when is a Top Ten Defense not very good?

 

[bucky]

Since when is a Top Ten Defense not very good?

This is a very misleading ranking. That Pats' final defensive ranking might be inflated a little by the last 2 games. They also just happened to have the LEAST plays from scrimmage run against them last year - which is not the result of anything the defense did well (their offense led the league in total plays from scrimmage) and considerably inflates those stats.

When you look at passing defense, they rank in the bottom half of the league in almost every category. Sacks, INTs, Yards, Opponents QB rating, 40+ yd pass plays, passing TDs allowed. They were also one of the worst in the league in 3rd down efficiency and in the Red zone. In many of these, the defense was actually in the bottom quarter of the league.

In short, the defense was not very good. In fact, the pass defense was below average.

 

[muslimman]

Two words:

Pass rush.

 

[JackBauer]

I don't know if they showed up. Can you tell me our CB's and S's are good?

The young LB's other than Mayo did not play enough to show me anything.

Uh, yes, I can certainly say the starting safeties are fine.

Hobbs is fine, Wilhite is fine, although it's unclear whether he's starter/nickel material.

Wheatley is borderline, but I'm inclined to give him the benefit of the doubt

Guyton didn't show you anything?

 

[Kontradiction]

Looks like my secondary concerns going into last season were on par. O'Neal sucked... badly. The only question is: was last season's sub-par passing D due to lack of pass rush, an inexperienced secondary, or the worst rash of injuries I have seen on this team in some time?

 

[NJPatsfan26]

Looks like my secondary concerns going into last season were on par. O'Neal sucked... badly. The only question is: was last season's sub-par passing D due to lack of pass rush, an inexperienced secondary, or the worst rash of injuries I have seen on this team in some time?

I am going with the worse rash of injuries we have had in some time.

 

[Kontradiction]

I am going with the worse rash of injuries we have had in some time.

Don't be so quick with that answer. While we lost Rodney, the two starters at CB (Hobbs and O'Neal) were still there by the end of the season.

 

[NJPatsfan26]

Don't be so quick with that answer. While we lost Rodney, the two starters at CB (Hobbs and O'Neal) were still there by the end of the season.

Yeah I was very amazed with our final push in December. Just goes to show you that BB is a genius!!

 

[nashvillepatsfan]

I don't know if they showed up. Can you tell me our CB's and S's are good?

The young LB's other than Mayo did not play enough to show me anything.

You're saying you havent seen enough from the young guys? So how can you assume they wont be improved from last year? They've had a year in the system, and might improve. As usual, you're speaking out your a**. Please go back to the practice squad with your friend 'briz'.

 

[Miguel]

To be fair to AJ...at the time that was made, that was looking forward without the knowledge of many injuries in the D. Thomas, Harrison, Woods, Wheatley..to name teh ones who ended up on IR...but there were also injuries to Warren, LSanders, JSanders, Bruschi, Vrabel, Hobbs, Wilfork, Seymour. While these were lesser injuries, they had an effect on the D as well. Just a reminder.

As if other Patriots defenses did not have to also overcome injuries.

 

[AzPatsFan]

This is a very misleading ranking. That Pats' final defensive ranking might be inflated a little by the last 2 games. They also just happened to have the LEAST plays from scrimmage run against them last year - which is not the result of anything the defense did well (their offense led the league in total plays from scrimmage) and considerably inflates those stats.

When you look at passing defense, they rank in the bottom half of the league in almost every category. Sacks, INTs, Yards, Opponents QB rating, 40+ yd pass plays, passing TDs allowed. They were also one of the worst in the league in 3rd down efficiency and in the Red zone. In many of these, the defense was actually in the bottom quarter of the league.

In short, the defense was not very good. In fact, the pass defense was below average.

I recall a Belichick aphorism that is appropriate, "It is what it is..."

I could also say they were playing four rookies and three newcomers for a total of 7 of 11 defenders who were unfamiliar with each others play. Familiarity should bring improvement.

It should show up in the latter stages of the season, as improved play. Lo and behold,... it did.

How do you think that Pitt's Defesne ranks high every year, when they run, and run, and run all the time on Offense. It keeps the opponnents Offense off the field. The Patss did that to a great degree. So that is suddenly ... Bad?

Your constantly running the Defense down is what is unacceptable and unwarranted. IMHO.

 

[Ring 6]

This is a very misleading ranking. That Pats' final defensive ranking might be inflated a little by the last 2 games. They also just happened to have the LEAST plays from scrimmage run against them last year - which is not the result of anything the defense did well (their offense led the league in total plays from scrimmage) and considerably inflates those stats.

When you look at passing defense, they rank in the bottom half of the league in almost every category. Sacks, INTs, Yards, Opponents QB rating, 40+ yd pass plays, passing TDs allowed. They were also one of the worst in the league in 3rd down efficiency and in the Red zone. In many of these, the defense was actually in the bottom quarter of the league.

In short, the defense was not very good. In fact, the pass defense was below average.

I don't know if I buy your logic.
An inflated ranking would be based on unusual circumstances that only that team had.
Having starting QBs injured and out for their game more often than normal, playing a substantially weak schedule, etc.
Saying the ranking is high because of 2 games doesnt really cut it because you can say its lower than it should be because of 2 games also, and you'd have to show that there were mre than 10 teams that were perfectly consistent.

As far as telling the defense it got a gift by having fewer plays run against it, thats pretty lame isn't it? They were the ones getting off the field and getting the ball back for the offense, no?

Look, this was my original post that Miguel wanted to remind everyone of, and I was wrong.
It happens, I never said when I predict something I am so arrogant that I think I will always be right, especially predicting an entire unit for an entire season.
In my defense, I think the D would have played better if Brady were not injured, but that is also proof I underestimated the impact of the offense on the 2007 defense too.

 

[Reaper]

I agree we will have a very strong defence and we will have a great year.

 

[bucky]

I recall a Belichick aphorism that is appropriate, "It is what it is..."

I could also say they were playing four rookies and three newcomers for a total of 7 of 11 defenders who were unfamiliar with each others play. Familiarity should bring improvement.

It should show up in the latter stages of the season, as improved play. Lo and behold,... it did.

How do you think that Pitt's Defesne ranks high every year, when they run, and run, and run all the time on Offense. It keeps the opponnents Offense off the field. The Patss did that to a great degree. So that is suddenly ... Bad?

Your constantly running the Defense down is what is unacceptable and unwarranted. IMHO.

I brought up the last 2 games because the weather clearly affected the offenses. But it doesn't matter. Let's just ignore that argument because it is somewhat dubious and just concentrate on the numbers.

Your argument that the Pats were a "top 10" defense is based (presumably) on the fact that they were 10th in Yds/gm and 8th in pts/gm. However, both of those numbers are affected by the fact that the offense was so efficient - very high time of posession, very low number of turnovers and penalties.

If you look at some of the stats that evaluate just purely the defense, you will see that they were nowhere near a top 10 defense.

Yds allowed/Play - the Patriots rank smack in the middle.
Forced Turnovers - bottom 10 in the league.
Opponents' QB Rating - bottom 10.
3rd down conversion % - one of the worst in the NFL
Passing TDs allowed - second worst in the NFL!
Pass plays of 40+ yards - tied for 2nd worst in NFL!
Total Defensive TDs allowed - middle of the road.
Sacks - middle of the pack
Yds/rush - middle of the pack

You're exactly right when you say "you are what you are" (which, by the way was a Parcells quote before it was a BB one). And if you look more deeply at the TRUE defensive numbers, the Patriots were a below average defensive team last year.

 

[bigfandan]

If you look at some of the stats that evaluate just purely the defense, you will see that they were nowhere near a top 10 defense.

Yds allowed/Play - the Patriots rank smack in the middle.
Forced Turnovers - bottom 10 in the league.
Opponents' QB Rating - bottom 10.
3rd down conversion % - one of the worst in the NFL
Passing TDs allowed - second worst in the NFL!
Pass plays of 40+ yards - tied for 2nd worst in NFL!
Total Defensive TDs allowed - middle of the road.
Sacks - middle of the pack
Yds/rush - middle of the pack

You're exactly right when you say "you are what you are" (which, by the way was a Parcells quote before it was a BB one). And if you look more deeply at the TRUE defensive numbers, the Patriots were a below average defensive team last year.

The passing defense is particularly problematic. Evidences are in high % of 3rd down conversions, big plays allowed (TDs, 40yd+ passes), and high opposing qb rating. This D at times makes scrubbs looking like hof'ers - the performance of AJ Feely comes to mind.

This is not unique to 2008. In 2007 it was glossed over by a great offense. But in the biggest games, at crunch time the Pats D has always had troubles. In three 3SB they won, they let Rams, Eagles, Panthers come back from double-digit 4th qtr deficits to tie games. In the one they lost, they could have won by holding Giants to a field goal. They went out and surrendered a 80 yard TD drive with less than 3 mins to play. Some people will dismiss as a freak play but there is something unsettling about Pat's D. I know what is coming "yeh, yeh, they made their shares of stops". I give you that. They had some success. But they had some terrible games (2007 Colts playoff game anyone? many consider that the biggest playoff chock job in NFL history). The percentages don't lie, and Pats D was indeed at the league's bottom in stopping 3rd downs and preventing big plays by opposing team. This D is not championship caliber and they won't reach promise land with this D no matter how good Brady-Moss-Welker are. Because in the playoff games in the elements, defenses will have the upper hand. Brady and company will be stopped; it is up to our D to stop them and get the ball back, preferrably more often than we are stopped by them.

Last three seasons have been extremely frustrating and I place blames on Pat's D. Let's hope Bill figures out a way to turn this around.