Deadline to use the franchise tag is 4 PM Thursday

[DaBruinz]

I think you are being naive if you think that teams thought he would be the good soldier he was in Patsville and not the cancer he had made himself out to be in Oakland. Pats got him cheap because the market dictated he go cheap. NO ONE jumped on him. See Packers. By the way, his numbers were pedestrian, he wasn't even the best reciever on his team in Oak Town. He was lazy, and mentally shot.

I think you're a moron for believing that HE made himself into a cancer in Oakland. In fact, if anything, the coaches in Oakland were part of Oakland's problem, not their solution. And the reason he was made out to be a "cancer" is because the mediots first attempted to make him out to be some kind of saviour.

Now, about your other comments, lets look at reality and not your stupidity.
1) Moss was injured during his second year in Oakland
2) Moss had garbage QBs throwing the ball and idiots running the offense.
3) I've seen better O-lines on High School teams than the one that Oakland had during Moss' tenure there.
4) Moss was hardly lazy in Oakland. But you've already proven you don't know wtf you are talking about.

He had no leverage. See his contract...written completely in favor of Pats brass.

Really? That 2 million dollar bonus for performance incentives were really written in the Pats favor, let me tell you.

I'm sure Branch said the same thing. And Givens. And Law.

Branch - What's he done since getting his contract? The Patriots offered him the same money that he got with Seattle. He just was greedy about how he wanted to get it. Not to mention he lied through his teeth about being a man of his word and honoring his contract.

Givens - What's he done? The Patriots offered him a very lucrative contract. More than generous. 5 years/$20 million I believe.

Law - He was coming off a major injury and refused to restructure his contract. Funny that, after one year with the Jets, his agent approached the Pats about his re-signing with them. Yes, he chose money over potentially being a part of a winning team. How's that worked out for him?

Reality check time. Benjamins talk.

Reality check. You don't know wtf you are talking about. If Benjamins talked, then Moss would have gone to Green Bay. Derrick Mason would have signed with the Patriots 3 years ago. Adalius Thomas would have signed with someone other than the Patriots. And Stallworth wouldn't have signed with the Pats. And Tedy Bruschi wouldn't have been with the Patriots for as long as he's been.

There is MORE than just money that drives players.

 

[DaBruinz]

No...actually, I am just trying to look at it from a business perspective. I don't think it makes business sense for Moss not to test the waters.

You aren't trying to look at anything except from an Anti-Patriots perspective. You also fail to take into consideration that there is more to players signing contracts than just money. Otherwise, Tedy Bruschi wouldn't have re-signed with the Patriots at contracts below market value that drew the IRE of the NFLPA. Otherwise, Randy Moss would have been on the Packers, Derrick Mason on the Patriots, and other examples too numerous to count.

 

[DaBruinz]

I think taking a monster deal with a team like Jacksonville would give him the best of all worlds.

Really? You think that Jack Del Rio is as good a coach as Belichick and Garrard as good as Brady?

Moss has already said that he wants to stay with the Patriots and that money isn't the issue. You just have to face reality that MONEY is not the driver for all people.

 

[Iron Helmet]

I think you're a moron for believing that HE made himself into a cancer in Oakland. In fact, if anything, the coaches in Oakland were part of Oakland's problem, not their solution. And the reason he was made out to be a "cancer" is because the mediots first attempted to make him out to be some kind of saviour. .

All things being equal, I think coaches respect coaches, and the prevailing opinion was that Moss was not what he used to be before the trade to the Pats. If he was, there would have been A LOT more teams banging down his door. Christ, they let him go for a 4th round pick?! The only 2 that were interested were teams that had nothing to lose, with solid WR corps, and everything to gain. NO ONE was willing to bring him in with the idea that he could be a reliable, solid #1 wide out.

Really? That 2 million dollar bonus for performance incentives were really written in the Pats favor, let me tell you. .

Gee, you must be 10 years old. If I signed a contract with someone that says I will only pay when they produce, I think thats in my favor.

Branch - What's he done since getting his contract? The Patriots offered him the same money that he got with Seattle. He just was greedy about how he wanted to get it. Not to mention he lied through his teeth about being a man of his word and honoring his contract.

Givens - What's he done? The Patriots offered him a very lucrative contract. More than generous. 5 years/$20 million I believe.

Law - He was coming off a major injury and refused to restructure his contract. Funny that, after one year with the Jets, his agent approached the Pats about his re-signing with them. Yes, he chose money over potentially being a part of a winning team. How's that worked out for him?

Reality check. You don't know wtf you are talking about. If Benjamins talked, then Moss would have gone to Green Bay. Derrick Mason would have signed with the Patriots 3 years ago. Adalius Thomas would have signed with someone other than the Patriots. And Stallworth wouldn't have signed with the Pats. And Tedy Bruschi wouldn't have been with the Patriots for as long as he's been.

There is MORE than just money that drives players.

The point was this (it went over your head)...they ALL said they wanted to play for the Pats when their time was up.

 

[Iron Helmet]

You aren't trying to look at anything except from an Anti-Patriots perspective. You also fail to take into consideration that there is more to players signing contracts than just money. Otherwise, Tedy Bruschi wouldn't have re-signed with the Patriots at contracts below market value that drew the IRE of the NFLPA. Otherwise, Randy Moss would have been on the Packers, Derrick Mason on the Patriots, and other examples too numerous to count.

No offense, but Bruschi is not a wise business man. He negotiates his own contracts. Enough said.

 

[Iron Helmet]

No doubt people take other things into account when deciding who to play for, but my feeling is $$$$$$$$$$$$$$ is by far the #1 factor. Adalius Thomas was limited by the fact that he is a 3-4 linebacker, and 3-4 teams are the minority in the NFL. Frankly, we paid him VERY well, and I daresay overpaid for the production we got this year. I am hopeful that he shows us something more in 2008.

 

[Deus Irae]

No offense, but Bruschi is not a wise business man. He negotiates his own contracts. Enough said.

Your comment here is asinine. Enough said.

 

[Iron Helmet]

Your comment here is asinine. Enough said.

Yeah. You are right. Leaving millions of dollars on the table is assinine.

 

[BPF]

Yeah. You are right. Leaving millions of dollars on the table is assinine.

Paying an agent's fee in some cases is also "assinine." Maybe money is not the most important thing to Bruschi and his family, maybe quality of life and playing his entire career with the Patriots and whatever else his reasons were for leaving "millions on the table" are more important. It's not our call, it's his call.

 

[PatsFanInVa]

Here's where the puppy-dogs-and-rainbows world of Mr. Moss might get sketchy for us...

1) I absolutely believe he's sincere about which bank he will and will not break
2) That opens up the possibility that he'll test the waters, but
3) I think that's to keep the Pats honest and negotiating in good faith to get er done. At some point money becomes important, like if the Pats figure they can get by paying him #2 money or something ridiculous.

4) They historically recognize the value of a game-changing player. Moss is that. They will pay, and he will have no need to test the waters.

PFnV

 

[BPF]

Here's where the puppy-dogs-and-rainbows world of Mr. Moss might get sketchy for us...

1) I absolutely believe he's sincere about which bank he will and will not break
2) That opens up the possibility that he'll test the waters, but
3) I think that's to keep the Pats honest and negotiating in good faith to get er done. At some point money becomes important, like if the Pats figure they can get by paying him #2 money or something ridiculous.

4) They historically recognize the value of a game-changing player. Moss is that. They will pay, and he will have no need to test the waters.

PFnV

If the Pats and Moss didn't already have a deal in place the Pats would have simply tagged him yesterday. I am not worried at all.

 

[Deus Irae]

Yeah. You are right. Leaving millions of dollars on the table is assinine.

Go down to the store and buy a clue. Money is not the only factor in determining the desirability of a job. Additionally, much of what's in the contract is going to be standard stuff, and Bruschi had been around long enough to know what 'perks' he would require and what additional 'requirements' he could accept.

 

[Iron Helmet]

Go down to the store and buy a clue. Money is not the only factor in determining the desirability of a job. Additionally, much of what's in the contract is going to be standard stuff, and Bruschi had been around long enough to know what 'perks' he would require and what additional 'requirements' he could accept.

Yeah, you are right. Thats why half the veterans with the same knowledge as Bru do their own neogitations and the NFLPA gave him a pat on the AZZ for doing it himself.

By the way, Spaz, getting an agent doesn't equate to leaving the Pats.

If Bru is my brother, I am all over him to get an agent. It is the right thing to do. He plays football. He doesn't draft contracts.

Your the kind of guy that is punch drunk on the cool aid. I tend to sip, rather than chug.

 

[Deus Irae]

Yeah, you are right. Thats why half the veterans with the same knowledge as Bru do their own neogitations and the NFLPA gave him a pat on the AZZ for doing it himself.

By the way, Spaz, getting an agent doesn't equate to leaving the Pats.

If Bru is my brother, I am all over him to get an agent. It is the right thing to do. He plays football. He doesn't draft contracts.

Your the kind of guy that is punch drunk on the cool aid. I tend to sip, rather than chug.

I never claimed getting an agent equated to leaving the Pats. As for the rest, given that I know this field of endeavor, I'll just let you look ridiculous, except to point out the obvious: Bruschi had his previous contract to work from, along with the standard items that go into just about every NFL contract. He saved himself the agent fees by doing it himself and has never complained about his contract to my knowledge.

You might still want to go buy that clue....

Oh, I don't drink Koolaid.

 

[PatsFanInVa]

I think what Iron is missing is that Bruschi has made the "business decision" to be "Mr. Patriot", and lead the quite comfortable existence one can lead on 1.7 million dollars a year (just to use last year's salary, not including amortized bonus, as a benchmark.)

I have no problem with players trying to make whatever the market will bear. I also do not think Bru or anybody else should be criticized for playing for less than the absolute maximum he can get on the market.

It's clear that Bruschi's decisions vis a vis money are not connected to an inability to draw more payback, but from a lack of interest in it. He could probably finagle a deal on his own to make more, never mind use an agent. And of course he could probably get more with an agent's services as well.

Do you really believe that it's gross incompetence, rather than a personal choice, that has amounted to the "penury" Bruschi has endured all these years? Is it not possible that Bru made a decision that he'll always be comfortable, and it's not about squeezing out more cash?

And along the same lines, do you really believe that if Moss will play cheaper to be in NE, he should be ridiculed as a bad businessman, for following the dictates of his heart over a few more meaningless (to him) millions?

It strikes me that it is valid if every penny is important to a player, and it is also valid if that is not the case.

PFnV

 

[LiveShot]

Moss restructed his deal with the Pats to make salary cap room and cannot redo his contract til 3/1/08 because NFL rules state you cannot restructure a contract twice in 1 calendar year. I'll bet he has a deal and the Pats will announce it as soon as the year elapses.