Day 7 Patriots Training Camp

[Family]

No but my gut tells me DMC doesnt want to take a pay cut.

Why should he? Look at what players got this off season. Luuked is right. McCourty is worth the 9.5.

But that doesn't mean something doesn't happen. I agree that right now it seems McCourty is the glue of the defense.

But Bill's proved us wrong before, and there's a lot they might do with that money!

 

[RobertWeathers]

Which is my point. There is no reason to even ask him because you wouldn't save enough money to make it worth the headache and potential bad atmosphere.

Unless he wants to sign a team friendly extension they will just let the deal run out and then see whats up. And I really don't see BB sending away DMac like he did others. His pay is not outrageous enough for that on the one hand and on the other the defense seems to already look pretty impressive and there is no need to screw with that.

He has $13m cap hit. BB has sent plenty of vets making big cash who won't conform to his financial expectations on their way. DMC is no exception.

With the talent they do have in the secondary if BB thinks he can get 90% of DMC in someone else at 2/5ths the cost and it helps him in other areas he'd be a fool not to consider it....and hes no fool.

 

[patfanken]

Williams is not a developmental player....that’s what the practice squad is for. Barring injury, he will contribute....hell, Jordan Richards contributed

I think Williams is a "developmental player" only as it pertains to him being a rookie. To my mind he is starting to show why he was picked so high. He only pales in comparison to the great play of the other more experienced CB's around him.

They had him match up on a TE a few times today and he did well, though the ball wasn't thrown in his direction, and in his one on ones he only got beat once on an in and out move, which is a hard one for a rookie.

I can see him carve out a real role in situational defenses against tall WR's because he is really tall with REALLY long arms and decent speed. He is NOT going to be a PS candidate.

 

[RobertWeathers]

Why should he? Look at what players got this off season. Luuked is right. McCourty is worth the 9.5.

But that doesn't mean something doesn't happen. I agree that right now it seems McCourty is the glue of the defense.

But Bill's proved us wrong before, and there's a lot they might do with that money!

No he shouldn't take the cut. Hes still playing at a high level.

If BB thinks JJ can play at 90% of DMCs level at 32% the salary then has a decision to make.

 

[patfanken]

Why should he? Look at what players got this off season. Luuked is right. McCourty is worth the 9.5.

But that doesn't mean something doesn't happen. I agree that right now it seems McCourty is the glue of the defense.

But Bill's proved us wrong before, and there's a lot they might do with that money!

Just a thought. In a year when your signal caller coach is going to be a rookie and the way offenses are, so much communication is needed AFTER the original call comes in, with all the formation and motion adjustments. Having Devon back there is an advantage, or rather losing him in a surprise cut could be damaging.

BTW- I don't think BB will ask him to take a cut. I think this is the McCourty's last season and his big salary is a final reward for a career well spent.

 

[patsinthesnow]

Three of the four main CBs as up. Good to see Collins there.

 

[patfanken]

BTW- a couple things I wish I had added in my original observation post.

1. You would think that after 5 superbowl appearances during his career (3 wins), an ignominious departure and a glorious return, plus off season surgery and the what seems to be the obligatory Superbowl broken arm by a safety; Patrick Chung has earned the right to go slow during TC. NOT HARDLY! Even though he's still in non-contact red, his goes 100% in everything he does. He's running ST's, he's running scout teams, He's running in regular defenses. Next time you got camp check him out. Really impressive.

2. Stid the kid had himself a really good day. Here's the thing. He still doesn't process things fast, but it does seem a BIT better. But there is no denying he has a VERY live and ACCURATE arm. 2 years down the road he' MIGHT be a legit NFL QB. That's a big if because being able to process what you see is the key skill for any QB.

3. I'm glad that other observers have confirmed my thoughts on Danny Shelton. I was very excited when they originally signed him and equally disappointed with last season's results. But he does have 1st round physical talent and it's starting to show up within the context of the defense.

4. I've been to half the padded practices and have YET to see a punt. BTW- Gostskowski's leg was better on KO's today, and Allen was the only holder on FG's Just sayin' for those who have Bailey's name on the final 53 written in ink.

5. Just signed up for the Athletic and there is an article on Matthew Slater's practice regimen that was worth the price of admission.

And speaking of Slater, it was a bit interesting that during KO coverage Slater was 2nd in from the Kicker. Back in my day, that's where the wedge busters played (and I was one). Now that they don't have that wedge you see a lot more DB/RB types on that team.

6. A lot of this stuff is interesting but next week will tell us a lot more. Too bad we can't see it first hand. It's only a week from today before the first preseason game

 

[zydecochris]

DMC- 5-10 195

JJ- 5-10 190

DMC- 5-10 195

JJ- 5-10 190

I am a big J. Jones fan, and I want to keep him on the Pats. I think he is a great story. However, I question if he is big enough to be a safety. At the Senior Bowl, he measured in at 5' 8 1/2 ", and 178 lbs:


He has probably put on muscle, and I'm sure he is probably over 178lbs now, but I doubt that he has grown much over 5'8 1/2". It would be interesting to see what his actual measurements are, I never know how much attention to pay to the published numbers (I remember how long Wilfork was listed at 325lbs).

 

[RobertWeathers]

I am a big J. Jones fan, and I want to keep him on the Pats. I think he is a great story. However, I question if he is big enough to be a safety. At the Senior Bowl, he measured in at 5' 8 1/2 ", and 178 lbs:


He has probably put on muscle, and I'm sure he is probably over 178lbs now, but I doubt that he has grown much over 5'8 1/2". It would be interesting to see what his actual measurements are, I never know how much attention to pay to the published numbers (I remember how long Wilfork was listed at 325lbs.

Yea who knows what the hell is measurables are. DMC seems bigger than 5-10 195 but what do I know.

 

[Ring 6]

Here's a way of thinking about it: why did you choose Inman vs. Harris as your example? It's not because Inman is one of the year's top "name" signings. Those would be Bennett and Pennel, with an honorable mention to senior citizen Ben Watson. Presumably it's because the example leaps out, because it's noteworthy.

Meanwhile Bennett is outplaying guys like Trent Harris, and Pennel is outplaying Ufomba Kamalu, David Parry and Nick Thurman. And nobody even bothers to mention any of that, because it's the norm.

Yeah you aren’t getting my point at all so I’ll move on.

 

[patchick]

Yeah you aren’t getting my point at all so I’ll move on.

Oh man, I needed this laugh.

 

[patfanken]

You misunderstand me.

I do not think Obi is a deep FS.

I like Obi. I want him on the team- as Chung's understudy.

I would agree that initially Obi is likely to be Chung's back up ,but he certainly has the speed to be a FS, though it hasn't been proven he has the instincts of DMac....or Jones.

Anyways right now the potential situational matchups that BB will have to work with, with this secondary is pretty extraordinary. I would give my left nut to be a fly on the wall for just ONE defensive game plan meeting this season. The flexibility they will have (eventually) will be pretty fantastic this season.

 

[JayNM]

I think DMc is too much of a leader... They don't usually get rid of leaders unless they're impeding big fish FA, which isn't the case.

J. Jones is very valuable, but he is closer to being paid than Mc. Even though i agree that he is the "Hill Killer" i don't he is the only one

 

[Ring 6]

Oh man, I needed this laugh.

You’d rather I argue?

 

[shmessy]

Williams is not a developmental player....that’s what the practice squad is for. Barring injury, he will contribute....hell, Jordan Richards contributed

Agreed. He was the MVP of Super Bowl 52 for the Eagles.

.

 

[Scotty]

Going by the posts we are lucky to have such a wide group of players. If we are going to loose some players then I hope it will be possible to bundle up some kind of trade so we get something out of it

 

[luuked]

With the talent they do have in the secondary if BB thinks he can get 90% of DMC in someone else at 2/5ths the cost and it helps him in other areas he'd be a fool not to consider it....and hes no fool.

That's where we disagree.

He is one of the key cogs that makes it all work in the secondary playing all over the place. I don't see anyone on the team who could replace him at all. If anything it would be a group effort and while you can get away with on a snap-by-snap basis this just reduces your variability and unpredictability.

I don't think DMac is particularly overpaid. He gets the same cash this year (9m) as Randall and Joyner. With Thomas, Mathieu, Amos and Byard making even more.

I stopped considering the prorated signing bonus when it comes to looking at salary / cap hits btw. because those are already paid out and solely an accounting construct so while some may say his cap hit is clearly more than 9m I don't think the difference is relevant.

There is only one player from the 4 who make more that I consider to be a better player than DMac. And quite frankly while Thomas is a better FS I am not sure he has the diverse skillset that enables him to switch competently between 4 different positions during one series.

 

[Ras-IR Dowling]

You’d rather I argue?

It would be kinda weird if you didn’t.

 

[luuked]

Why should he? Look at what players got this off season. Luuked is right. McCourty is worth the 9.5.

But that doesn't mean something doesn't happen. I agree that right now it seems McCourty is the glue of the defense.

But Bill's proved us wrong before, and there's a lot they might do with that money!

Obviously. But I feel like people go at it from the wrong side and just want to shed players to have the cap space for the sake of having cap space.

Now, if you have a plan in mind, can actually pull it off and need the cap space for it to happen that is a different story. I just don't see BB moving on from someone like DMac to save money alone.

There has to be another shoe to drop (or a series of moves lined up) in that scenario.

 

[Family]

Obviously. But I feel like people go at it from the wrong side and just want to shed players to have the cap space for the sake of having cap space.

Now, if you have a plan in mind, can actually pull it off and need the cap space for it to happen that is a different story. I just don't see BB moving on from someone like DMac to save money alone.

There has to be another shoe to drop (or a series of moves lined up) in that scenario.

I agree and never said BB would move from McCourty just to save money. But for many it's been an off the table consideration, where I think it's a real possibility, if the right opportunity is presented.

For example, Bedard has been saying if the Pats acquired Williams they would not have financial room for Gronk, if he decided to come back. He never mentioned or considered moving McCourty. I don't think they will make this trade, but if they did, moving from McCourty would be an option, if he refuses to extend.

It's not like the Patriots have Malcolm Butler, Logan Ryan, Kyle Arrington, and Jordan Richards roaming the corridors. Or a newly acquired Gilmore. There was miscommunication back then. This backfield looks as shutdown as I've ever seen with the Pats. BB might feel this makes McCourty expendable .

I don't have a plan in mind. But if the opportunity presented itself at cutdown, and the Pats needed a chunk of money to make themselves better at a position that was a disaster because of injuries or what is going on currently with areas of the offense, I think Bill would pull this trigger.