Crowd Reacting to Willie and Adam??

[VrabelMayeWin]

they didn't offer him a contract. That was pretty plain in his ROME IS BURNING spot.

Spin, baby, spin. He knows how the Patriots work. They kept in touch unless you don't believe the Patriots. Just like with Givens, given the chance they would make an offer to McGinest - just not as much as the high bidder. If the Patriots didn't make an offer then they weren't given the chance to.l

 

[Franchise12]

Willie: would recieve a warm welcome upon his return he was a model patriot and I have no ill feelings whatsoever. the fans would applaude him for his efforts as a patriot.


Givens: I wouldnt boo him. I respect what hes done and now he has an oppurtunity to be a #1.


Vinatraitor: I hope we boo him to oblivion. he didnt leave for more money (which I could accept) he jumped ship to pad his stats in the dome to make sure he has HOF stats. I hope this peice of traitor trash gets everything coming to him.

 

[Hoodie]

I have no ill feelings toward Willie or David. However, Vinitraitor is dead to me.

What I'm SO looking forward to are the hundreds of articles by our vaunted sportswriters telling the fans how we should react and then expressing extreme disappointment when fans don't do as told.

Borges will say we should cheer for Adam 'cause he got away from the evil empire.

Ryan will say we should cheer during his kick off and boo after that.

MacMullen will report that fans cheered despite overwhelming booing.

It's gonna be FUN!

 

[VrabelMayeWin]

Borges will say we should cheer for Adam 'cause he got away from the evil empire.

Ryan will say we should cheer during his kick off and boo after that.

MacMullen will report that fans cheered despite overwhelming booing.

And Felger will still be whining that we could have re-signed him for just a little mroe than we were offering.

 

[Hoodie]

And Felger will still be whining that we could have re-signed him for just a little more than we were offering.

Felger will whine about that ten years after Vinitraitor retires.

 

[Keegs]

I have no ill feelings toward Willie or David. However, Vinitraitor is dead to me.

I couldnt agree more.

 

[patsox23]

The more time passes, the more I'm inclined to cheer ALL of them heartily. These guys helped lead us to 3 out of 4. In the end, that's what we'll remember, far more than the machinations of FA. And I was as p.o.'d as anyone when AV took Indy's offer.

 

[spacecrime]

Spin, baby, spin. He knows how the Patriots work. They kept in touch unless you don't believe the Patriots.

I never heard the Pats made WMG an offer. I heard aobut Givens and AV offers, but not WMG. If you can give me a link, great, but otherwise I have to figure that I didn't hear anything because they didn't offer him anything.

I really don't see how you can compare WMG taking a pay cut a couple years ago to stay wiht the Patriots, and being cut this year, with AV holding out for enough money that it was cheaper to franchise him last year, and then this year not wanting to be here at all. In hindsight it is pretty clear why he and the Pats could not get together last year. As AV said, he wanted to play in a dome. That's why he was so upset at being franchised. It delayed his dearture a year.

I really don't see that they have anything in common.

I don't see AV having much in commonwith Givens, either. He went for the money, but was upfront about it, and as a late seventh round draft pick he made very little in his career. As opposed to highest paid kicker AV.

 

[VrabelMayeWin]

I never heard the Pats made WMG an offer. I heard aobut Givens and AV offers, but not WMG. If you can give me a link, great, but otherwise I have to figure that I didn't hear anything because they didn't offer him anything.

It was well published in the Boston papers that the Patriots "kept in touch with McGinest's people". When he said they didn't talk to him, fine, but they kept in touch with his agent, according to the papers. Did they make an offer ? Maybe not, but I have zero doubt they kept in touch with what he was being offered and probably told his agent the ballpark they'd be in. With the Patriots, even making an offer can be a little tricky to define.

 

[italian pat patriot]

my reaction would be:

- a BIG cheer-standing ovation for Willie Mc Ginest (one of my favourite players ever)

- a NO reaction for AV (i hate to see him with IND uniform...but too many good memories are also with me...)
but i am sure the majority of fans will boo him...

a moderate cheer for Givens

 

[Pats726]

I agree..football is NOT like hockey, baseball or basketball with individual intros....
Given that that is the case...then how should one react the first time the name is mentioned..."Givens"..."McGinest"..."Vinatieri".....
What I would do if I were there...I would stand up and applaud for all 3 of them. Why?? Because all 3 contributed a great deal to what this team did, winning 3 superbowls. They all had parts in bringing 3 Lombardis here!! To applaud is the right thing to do and the classy thing to do. I don't expect that to happen?? No..I don't think 'classy" is anything close to fandom these days. "Classy" is the past..not in vogue. It is about "now"..not what was...Funny that one would boo those who brought the Lombardis to NE a few years later. In a larger perspective, booing would show a total lack of perspective, of knowledge of the game, of immature thinking, of being shortsightedness and other negative things. They ALL deserve a standing ovation the first chance one is given. They ALL contributed to what the Patriots did and the LEAST the fans can do is to show their appreciation for what WAS done. I feel very strongly about that...that it is the total right thing to do. I will also say that to NOT do that is strictly "Bush league" in my opinion..VERY classless. VERY embarrassing!! I do know fans in Boston and the area have been ranked as some of the best..and in many cases they are, but I am not sure that is the case now. I might be in a very small minority on this, but I don't think what is right and wrong is a matter of an opinion poll on this.
Notice...I said the first time and I meant the first time only...after that, I think it's really up to what the individual fan wishes to do...what they think about the player etc. And certainly, AdamV would be getting booed a lot more being a Colt than Willie or DavidG. That is all fair at that point...but THAT is not my concern.
MY concern is what the first initial reaction is,,,what would be noted..what is the classy thing to do. What would that be?? Standing ovations for all 3, to show and appreciate what they did AS Patriots. What they helped this team accomplish. In a larger sense of Patriot history to boo those that helped make the team what it is, is small, petty and unappreciative. In this world
of wanting things NOW and FAST and having a total amnesia of PAST, is what it is about. I think it would make a larger statement if when AdamV was first noted, he was given a standing ovation that would rock the stadium and when next noted, booed to the nth degree. What would that say??? We loved you as a Patriot but hated how and where you went. Total booing at first just shows embarrassing classlessness...nothing else.

 

[spacecrime]

It was well published in the Boston papers that the Patriots "kept in touch with McGinest's people". When he said they didn't talk to him, fine, but they kept in touch with his agent, according to the papers.

How about some links to some of these well published reports? I think you are confusing WMG with DG.

 

[patchick]

Adam made it clear from the day the season ended that he wanted out of here, whereas Willie -- publicly, at least -- made it seem like he wanted to stay.

But in the end, it's not about how they left so much as where they went. Rejoining your old coach whom we all wish well? Fair enough. Leaping aboard with the team's current most heated rival? That's a total kiss-off to the fans, and Adam knew from the moment he signed the contract that he'd be hated for it. He seemed strangely bitter as he left; my guess is he'll revel in the booing.

 

[VrabelMayeWin]

How about some links to some of these well published reports? I think you are confusing WMG with DG.

No I am not. I can't give you links because the Boston papers all have pay areas for the archives. But Felger definitely said, and definitely about McGinest, that the Patriots kept in tough with his people - maybe not with McGinest himself.

 

[Franchise12]

Im sorry, but as classy as it might be to applaud vinatraitor I just cant find it in me to honor some stat mongrel that is ultamately thumbing his nose at the N.E. area. He is a colt and I wish him no fortune from now on, honestly, I would find extremely satisfying if rodney K.O.'s him on a extra point kick. sounds mean, but like some pats fans have said in this thread, HE'S DEAD TO ME.no longer family.

 

[MoLewisrocks]

They both left for money. And Willie had made a lot more already in his career, some of which quite frankly he had not earned early on. And make no mistake about it, if the Colts and not the Browns had offered Willie double his market value he'd be wearing a horseshoe on his helmet today too. So in a sense it was really AV who left because we wouldn't offer him a fair market contract (without perhaps a gun held to our heads). Willie is the one who actually left for more money.

Both players contributed to three successful Superbowl seasons. In Adam's case he flat out got us to the first one - nobody else makes that kick against Oakland. Willie almost cost us the Rams game at one crucial juncture. Tebucky could have been the hero in XXXVI with his clutch fumble recovery for a 98 yard game clinching TD, instead it came down to Brady and Vinatieri to bail Tebucky and the entire defense out of instead being the goats after Proehl beat him for the game tieing TD with a minute twenty one and no time outs remaining.

Willie's was also a little less magnanimous in his exit, the typical attempt to shift blame for his departure to the franchise (they never called me) for forcing the player to have to leave to get the extra money he previously claimed he did not need.

Adam on the other hand could not have been classier, basically taking responsibility for his decision, saying FA presented him with choice to make on a take it or leave it offer that was exactly what he wanted financially from a perrenial contender in a dome that could also extend his career significantly so he it felt like it was just time to move on. He was effusive in his praise for this team and this organization and assured fans that the Patriots would be just fine going forward.

Fans who feel jilted where Adam is concerned believe he had a choice Willie didn't because with a gun to their heads the team surely would have matched Indy's offer to Adam. Unfortunately Adam wasn't prepared to risk that to justify his leaving in your eyes. They had a couple of years to get a deal done with him, and they didn't. There were likely some long simmering issues regarding representation and possible conflict of interest. He moved on with the same class he displayed during his 10 years here without ever stooping to pointing any of that out.

Not to mention he has Willie's agent to thank for his deal.

I'm sure Adam and Willie don't expect Patriot fans to root for them any longer under the circumstances. Willie has likely played his last game in Foxboro. Adam will be here at least once a season for the next couple of seasons. If you boo him when he first returns it says more about your emotional makeup as a fan than him as a player or former player. It's just the psychotic jilted lover claiming they never really loved you to begin with. And as much as players want to embrace their fanbases, on some level they know this reality, and that's why they never let potential fan emotion come between them and their livlihood.

We can all point to Tommy and Tedy as examples of players who took less to stay with us. Just don't kid yourself. They didn't do it out of loyalty or affection towards this fan base. They did it because staying here serves some underlying purpose that matters to them more than money. Tommy wants his legacy to be the that of the greatest QB any franchise has ever seen. Tedy wants to maintain a personal and professional comfort level and stability for himself and his young family.

Personally, I could never boo someone who brought me so much joy. That would make me feel like a total ingrate. Kind of like the wine and cheese crowd at the Razor these days when they boo three time superbowl champions because they struggle once in a while.

 

[desi-patsfan]

Cannot wait for the sports "experts" to rip all the fans of the pats when we boo AV. "How can they forget so quickly what he did."
"Its a disgrace, i guess 3 super bowls gets you nothing."

 

[AllabouttheVinces]

I can't believe you guys. After 3 SB's you'd boo these guys??? All three are heroes in my book, and deserve a standing O. Same as Johnny Damon. Standing O when introduced, then boo them for what they do for the other team. I agree that it's not like basketball with pre-game intros, so the opportunity to cheer or boo may not come until they make a play, so then you boo them.

I have no animosity toward any of the 3 because, once again, it's not like the NBA where everyone already makes millions. In football you get a limited opportunity to make money. Givens was grossly underpaid as a Pat. Piolichick could have locked him up long ago, and chose not too. For Willie & Adam, it was a decision by the Pats based on age and money - too much of both.

The guy to boo is Ty Law. He now has the opportunity to come back here and cement his legacy, enhance his chances for Canton. After being one of the NFL's highest paid players for years, he's got all the dough he'll ever need. His skills have diminished, but he's still after the Benjamins. Ty, come on back for another title. Otherwise, we should boo him unmercifully when he comes back as a visitor.

 

[PATSNUTme]

Willie is not coming to play in The Razor this year unless it's a playoff game so it's going to be hard for fans to boo him.

As far as our previous kicker goes, he is dead to me while he has that Colts uniform on. I probably won't be at the game but I intend to turn my back to him even if it's on my TV screen.

It would be great if the fans at Foxboro silently turn their backs to him, our previous kicker. It would be more cutting than boo's.

Or, bring a newspaper and put it in front of their faces whenever he, our previous kicker, is on the field.

 

[DaBruinz]

It's not a mistake. WMG did not leave for the money. He didn't leave at all. The Patriots cut him, and unlke AV, they didn't offer him a contract. That was pretty plain in his ROME IS BURNING spot.

Lets get a few things straight.

1) Willie knew that the last year of his contract was a phony one. He admitted to it.
2) The Patriots DID offer him a contract extension priot to cutting McGinest. In fact, they offered him SEVERAL different ones that would have allowed McGinest to retire as a Patriot.
3) It was made very clear by BB and Kraft that they were talking with McGinest the entire time after he was cut. Contrary to McGinest and the Media reports.

Call it what you will, but McGinest left for the money. Period. It was his choice. He could have stayed for the contract extension that the Pats offered him. Knowing that the Pats would cut him, he chose to test the free agent market.

Also, it was very clear that McGinest wasn't entirely truthful on his "Rome is Burning" spot or in the media.