Clayton: Moss not close to deal, entertaining other offers

[Sean Pa Patriot]

And if the FO wants to allinate Brady, I would like to hear someone defend that

OK..the FO alienated Drew Bledsoe and fans like you went beserk then...how'd that work out? You're problem is you see everything in terms of individual players...that's great for fantasy league play, but the NFL is all about the TEAM...something the Patriots have been better at than any other franchise since 2001.

No I just seen how Brady , who at 29 was in the prime of his carrer, watch as the FO made a big mistake and think Deion Branch was not going to hold out... Which forced Brady to develop a relationship with , Gabrial, Caldwell and Bam Childress in week 1 vs Buffalo in 2006.. I just dont want to see the Fo do the same thing twice.. that is all.

 

[DaedalusX]

And if the FO wants to allinate Brady, I would like to hear someone defend that

OK..the FO alienated Drew Bledsoe and fans like you went beserk then...how'd that work out? You're problem is you see everything in terms of individual players...that's great for fantasy league play, but the NFL is all about the TEAM...something the Patriots have been better at than any other franchise since 2001.

Keep in mind who has been leading this team on the field since 2001.

Kraft is a great owner. Belichick is a great coach. But when the men take the field, Brady is the direction, the calm and the drive of that team.

Brady is a franchise quarterback. He is the reason the Patriots have 3 SBs this decade. It wasn't until this year that the rest of the league and world truly respected his uniqueness. Maybe it's time for the Patriots organization itself to respect it as well.

 

[sebman2112]

The Pats needed to get younger at LB, you mean to tell me David Harris would not have been a good addition to this team right now?? No I dont know anything yet, but Adam Shefter does, and when he speaks I take seriously.. Ive been the guy saying when Clayton talks, its not worth a grain of salt..


Tell me if , and again .. IF WE LOSE MOSS, NOT WHEN, What do we spend the so called 24 mill in cap space, and dont tell me Ty Law..

If you say a trade for Chad Johnson and Lito Sheppard, I will say ok, but this is not a great Free agency class... yes its day 1 and Moss still could sign, but If Im Brady , I stood back once , I wont stand aside again.. And if the FO wants to allinate Brady, I would like to hear someone defend that

Obviously you're aware of some of the possible positives, but you also seem to mainly focus on the negatives. I really hope they keep Moss, and I'll be somewhat upset if he signs elsewhere, but it wouldn't be the end of the season, and who knows what could happen. They could trade for someone else, draft a WR who turns into a special player, or maybe even someone like Chad Jackson could actually live up to his athletic potential. I understand the worries, but you shouldn't allow the possibly bad outcome of this negotiation (and others) to completely frame the offseason. Many things could still happen yet. That's all, just lighten up a bit gus, lol!

 

[Sean Pa Patriot]

6.) I have no problem with replacing Stallworth and Gay with draft picks, although I don't think the team will waste a high slot on a receiver. Unlike you, I'm able to understand that a momentary setback ≠ complete disaster. That's why I wasn't crying in almost every game thread in the second half of the season.


Even though you make valid points in your other threads.. I cant see a draft pick replacing those 2.. You can make the arguement that Chad Jackson could step up and replace Stallworth.. But would have liked Stallworth to be here in case this Moss situation gets out of control.. Gay , I do hear he wants 25 mill for 5 yrs, is insaine, and would be open to a Draft pick with that.. But my complaint in the game threads was that , the defense we had was not a championship calibar defense, and I hate to say this .. I was right on that.. otherwise, we would be toasting beers to our 19-0 season..

 

[Joker]

No..that is NOT true...Brady was the QB on the first squad that won a world championship but his numbers were paltry and Weis devised a high percentage short passing attack to keep his mistakes at a minimum. The Rams had over 450 total yards in that first Super Bowl, the Pats barely mustered more than 200. Coaching won that first Super Bowl and coaching has developed Tom Brady into the star player he is today. Once again, I'll stick with the TEAM and the decision making of the staff.

 

[Sean Pa Patriot]

Obviously you're aware of some of the possible positives, but you also seem to mainly focus on the negatives. I really hope they keep Moss, and I'll be somewhat upset if he signs elsewhere, but it wouldn't be the end of the season, and who knows what could happen. They could trade for someone else, draft a WR who turns into a special player, or maybe even someone like Chad Jackson could actually live up to his athletic potential. I understand the worries, but you shouldn't allow the possibly bad outcome of this negotiation (and others) to completely frame the offseason. Many things could still happen yet. That's all, just lighting up a bit gus, lol!

Well its been a lousy Feb, but now its March and spring is around the corner, so I will try to be more positive.. again I am tell ing peole until I see it that says Moss has signed with Denver , Tenn or dare I say it , the NYJ, I stil believe Moss will be a Patriot..

 

[Sean Pa Patriot]

No..that is NOT true...Brady was the QB on the first squad that won a world championship but his numbers were paltry and Weis devised a high percentage short passing attack to keep his mistakes at a minimum. The Rams had over 450 total yards in that first Super Bowl, the Pats barely mustered more than 200. Coaching won that first Super Bowl and coaching has developed Tom Brady into the star player he is today. Once again, I'll stick with the TEAM and the decision making of the staff.

So are you saying Brady is overated???

 

[BelichickFan]

OK with what number 1 draft picks will this work??

I'm not going to deal with exact trades but you could get that done. #7 for #17 and Sheppard, #17 for Chad, second round for Huff.

I think I overpaid but it was just an example of how easy it would be.

 

[Sean Pa Patriot]

I'm not going to deal with exact trades but you could get that done. #7 for #17 and Sheppard, #17 for Chad, second round for Huff.

I think I overpaid but it was just an example of how easy it would be.

If that is the trades, Im happy with that.. good thinkin

 

[Deus Irae]

6.) I have no problem with replacing Stallworth and Gay with draft picks, although I don't think the team will waste a high slot on a receiver. Unlike you, I'm able to understand that a momentary setback ≠ complete disaster. That's why I wasn't crying in almost every game thread in the second half of the season.


Even though you make valid points in your other threads.. I cant see a draft pick replacing those 2.. You can make the arguement that Chad Jackson could step up and replace Stallworth.. But would have liked Stallworth to be here in case this Moss situation gets out of control.. Gay , I do hear he wants 25 mill for 5 yrs, is insaine, and would be open to a Draft pick with that.. But my complaint in the game threads was that , the defense we had was not a championship calibar defense, and I hate to say this .. I was right on that.. otherwise, we would be toasting beers to our 19-0 season..

And, as you have so often in the past 6 months, you get it wrong again. The defense held up its end of the bargain in the Super Bowl. It was the offense that failed. The defense allowed its season average, 4th best in the NFL. The offense wilted under the pressure. You simply griped every time the defense had the temerity to allow the opposing team to gain a yard.

As for Jackson, I'm not talking about him replacing Stallworth. There's nothing to replace, since that had been done by the end of the season. I'd like him back, but I'm not blinded by him. He's a 3 route runner. He can catch a screen, he can run a go, and he can run a slant. Everything else is iffy, at best. And, since this team doesn't run slants for some reason, that makes him a 2 route runner with the Patriots. Losing Gaffney would be a bigger loss than losing Stallworth, and you didn't even put him in your list.

Or, to put it another way...

WR1
Gaffney
Welker
Jackson
Washington/WR5
WR5/Washington

is good enough to win the Super Bowl, even if WR1 is just an average WR1 instead of Randy Moss, as long as they get a starting corner and an ILB who can play.

Edit: I forgot to add that this was only the 5th Super Bowl where the winner scored fewer than 20 points, and the first time a team scoring fewer than 20 points had won the Super Bowl since the Steelers beat the Vikings in 1975.

 

[PatsNuts]

Pats did fine before him and did what with him exactly think about it like that.

 

[Disco Volante]

I hate when people say that.

With that logic we no longer need anyone who joined the team after 2004.

 

[sebman2112]

If that is the trades, Im happy with that.. good thinkin

Also, I just want you to think about how good a strong pass rush can make average CB's look. Let's say the Patriots draft someone like Chris Long, Vernon Gholston, or Quentin Groves. Their pass rush would almost instantly be an upgrade. Both Gholston and Groves have some of the best 10 splits you're going to see from a pass rusher, and I think they could trade down and still get Groves. It's just my opinion, but I believe some of the CB's coming out of this draft will develop into better CB's than Samuel, as well. And, The CB who's most ready to start within NE's system is Antoine Cason. I know the Patriots have already scheduled a visit to Gillette for Chevis Jackson, and I think he'll be a better pro than Randall Gay, too.

What I'm actually hoping for right now?

Resign Moss, and Gaffney and/or bring in Marty Booker (I think he could be a good receiver within NE's system). Possibly spend a draft pick on a WR who could develop.

So at WR NE could then have:
Moss
Welker
Jackson
Gaffney and or Booker (they've been interested, too)
Washington
CJ Jones
maybe a Draft pick

At ILB I'd like to see them make some of the fallowing moves:

Sign Victor Hobson, and maybe send a third or fourth over to Dallas for Carpenter (they aren't using him in Wade's 1 gap).
Draft either Keith Rivers, or Jonathan Goff. J Leman, and some others are also options at this position.

So, they could then have some combination of the fallowing ILB's:
Tedy bruschi
Victor Hobson (he shouldn't be expensive, and I think he could play well for NE)
AD (Hybrid)
Goff
Alexander
and maybe add someone like Leman or Jameel McClain as late round picks.
Carpenter would be an option if the Cowboys are willing to unload him for cheap.

At OLB I'd like to see the fallowing:

Draft either Chris Long, Vernon Gholston, or Quentin Groves (with a trade down).
They could also sign Clark Haggans as a rotational player, or for depth. Some other OLB's will be available later in the draft too, like Cliff Avril out of Purdue.
There are some other lessor options in Free agency as well.

So, at OLB they could realistically have:
Vrabel
AD
Gholston/Groves/Long
Haggans
Woods
and maybe another draft pick to fight Woods for his spot. I can't remember if TJ Slaughter was an ILB or OLB? probably doesn't matter though, as I doubt he'll see the field with the starting defense.

At CB they could realistically:
sign Webster (decent third CB/backup)
Draft one of Cason, Rodgers-Cromartie, McKelvin, Jenkins, Flowers, Talib.
Then Later draft Chevis Jackson, or some other CB's. Zenon is also an option later in the draft.

The Patriots could also sign Dominique Foxworth to an offer sheet, and they would only have to give up a 3rd round pick, as the Broncos only gave him a third round tender.

So, they could have any combination of:
Hobbs
Dominique Foxworth
Cason/Rodgers-Cromartie/McKelvin/Jenkins/Flowers/Talib
Webster
Chevis Jackson
Richardson
Zenon
Mixon

So, they could retool their LB corp, and secondary, and in the end I think both units would actually be better off. It doesn't seem Colvin's receiving much interest yet, either. So, maybe he resigns for a one year prove it deal? Who knows.

 

[Patdown93]

I wholly agree and very much like Seb's plan for the Patriots. Hobson's the free agent I want most right now :/