Chris Gocong

[DW Toys]

What if Pryor turns into a Pro-Bowl DT? And what do we do for positional depth? Why create two more needs trading for one player - Umenyiora's a one dimensional pass rusher - we've already got one of those in TBC. And what happens if we go back to the 3-4? Can he even play at OLB?



He's actually played well at SLB for the Iggles from what I've seen. I don't watch them week in week out, but there's always one of the NFC East teams on over here, plus you get highlight packages and the likes.

I don't see a 3-4 OLB when I look at him, I see a 3-4 SILB. He'd offer a lot of scheme versatility.

Part one-Well, like I said , to get something you have to give something. Perhaps Brace instead. Just a thought. I have no trouble trading a rotational Safety that only started five games last year and please I understand that others think he saved the D last year. He has the least upside of any Safety we have that are of a starting nature. Check the Stats. He didn't help much. It's called missed tackles on all DBs in 2009.

I agree with you on Gocong. I also see that McKenzie played OLB mostly in college but we have him targeted as a ILB. OK either way I guess, but to pencil him in on the team when he hasn't started a game in the NFL never mind playing a down, is like everyone did last year with Crable. How many think Crable even sticks with the team this year? I don't see Crable on the roster if we go FA, trade or Draft an OLB.

This year because of the end of the CBA, trades will be the only way to build you team and pick up needs. Yes there is the Draft but we have 13 needs and 7 Draft choices. I have heard some say build through the Draft. That is great but we have way too many holes right now. Draft choices are nice when they work out, The average in the NFL for successful NFL Drafts with people playing significant or starting roles is about 18% across the board. Some Teams are better and some worse at this process. That means if you get seven Draft picks less than 2 will be "players" of quality (not JAGS) within the normal three year maturation process. So if we have 7 picks and 3 work out within three years, we are winners. Some can impact immediately (a percentage of those 3 good picks) but most take three years unless you have a poor Team with significant needs and the kids are pushed into play now. A- Do we have 3 years to wait? Brady is not getting younger to get a couple more rings. B-Will we be able to use all seven picks even within 3 years? The odds say no. C-Can UFA picks help? Not this year.

It's funny. If we were only 18% successful at our jobs we would be fired.
I will say this. The NFL has a lot of front office pretenders and big shots that make no better picks than guys like right here. I will guarantee you that you can put all of the Draft picks on cards in a large fish bowl and each team pull a name and you would get the same 18% result or better. That is how good the science of the NFL Draft is. Your betting millions of dollars on 21 year old kids. You have to beat the odds every single time to build through the Draft. Three high performing picks or more per year? Terrible odds.

I think you have to have a mix. Guys like Gocong or Bolden or even Cromartie have a track record and have know NFL qualities and flaws. Why you would ever let an above average CB like Bodden go who is still reasonably young and has experience, versus lets say if you had a pick like Joe Hadden available for perhaps even more money, I don't understand.

For every Mayo there is a Chad Jackson.

DW Toys

 

[Box_O_Rocks]

But like I said, please let us get back to Gocong, I'm surprised Box hasn't posted yet

Was there a time limit?

-- First, what is, or will be, his tender?
-- He was off a little last season if you look at his stats, he injured his leg Nov 1 and never was the same afterward, Moise Fokou (whom NE looked at closely last year) replaced him as the starter.
-- I think he'd be an excellent ILB, but he can also play OLB and at the moment I'd really like to have him at OLB with the current roster situation.
-- I'd expect Philly to tender him at least as a 2nd and I'd have no problem giving up NE's second round pick for him.
-- If Philly tenders him higher he's a no go.
-- If I was BB I'd have a chat with Andy Reid and ask him what Philly wants to do with Gocong, perhaps a Welker-like trade can be worked out and he never hits the market.

 

[Box_O_Rocks]

OK, back to Gocong, I don't much at all about him

41 sacks in 42 games as a small school DE (Cal Poly SLO). High School option QB. A little short for an OLB by BB's standards, but the weight is right and he's a good height for ILB. Scheme versatility, as a blitzing SLB he gets pressure on the QB - in 2007 he worked Brady over pretty good. Engineering degree = smart enough for LB work.

 

[DW Toys]

41 sacks in 42 games as a small school DE (Cal Poly SLO). High School option QB. A little short for an OLB by BB's standards, but the weight is right and he's a good height for ILB. Scheme versatility, as a blitzing SLB he gets pressure on the QB - in 2007 he worked Brady over pretty good. Engineering degree = smart enough for LB work.

Good post and interesting observations.
DW Toys

 

[StraightCashHomey81]

I like him, but he is not an ILB. He would be an OLB for us. Reminds me of TBC with a little more of a burst off the snap.

 

[Hercules Rockefeller]

I have always liked Gocong. He would add some real quality depth to the linebackers, and as of right now would likely start. He is the kind of veteran I would like to see them target this offseason. Bring in a number of players that can contest for starting jobs and won't break the bank.

Then again, I suppose that's always the ultimate goal. Re: Gocong, I say bring him in if they can.

 

[StraightCashHomey81]

Was there a time limit?
If I was BB I'd have a chat with Andy Reid and ask him what Philly wants to do with Gocong, perhaps a Welker-like trade can be worked out and he never hits the market.

I like this idea, but the Patriots lack of a 3rd-round pick hurts them in a potential trade. Given the projection into a new scheme, a 2nd round pick seems too steep for the Patriots, but the Eagles could probably do better than a 4th. Maybe Gocong and 3rd to the Pats for #53 and a 4th/5th?

 

[Box_O_Rocks]

I like this idea, but the Patriots lack of a 3rd-round pick hurts them in a potential trade. Given the projection into a new scheme, a 2nd round pick seems too steep for the Patriots, but the Eagles could probably do better than a 4th. Maybe Gocong and 3rd to the Pats for #53 and a 4th/5th?

There's more flexibility then you might think.

NE has 1.22, 2.12 (from JAX), 2.15 (from TEN), 2.21, 4.21, 6.21, 7.22, 7.24 (from PHI via NO) plus 3-4 compensation picks at the end of rounds 7 and/or 6.

Looking ahead to 2011 NE has 1 (Oak), 1 (NE), 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7 (NO) (maybe another, I'm not sure).

If Philly doesn't have long term plans for Gocong, or has a ready replacement and is willing to clear a log jam at the position then you can do some horse trading.
-- I would be willing to give up NE's 2nd in 2010, but if you wanted to set the price as the 3rd Philly used to draft him there's the 2011 2nd (A 3rd equivalent in 2010).
-- If NE doesn't think their 2010 2nd is right, they can ask for a Philly later round pick plus Gocong.
-- If his value to both clubs is lower, then BB has the 2010 4th or the 2011 3rd and plenty of other late round picks as filler in both draft classes.

All of this is dependent on Gocong's RFA tender from Philly.

 

[captain stone]

I too liked Gocong in the 2006 draft, and was hoping that he would last until the Pats at 86. Unfortunately, he didn't even last to 75, where the Pats also would've picked had Bill not made the CJack trade. I was a bit surprised that a 4-3 defense chose him, as I considered Gocong a better fit at 3-4 OLB. I still consider him a better fit at 3-4 OLB, and would therefore be very hesitant about trading one of our 2nd-rounders for somebody who would have to be trained for a position he has never played. Maybe Rob Ninkovich, who is approx. 1 to 1-1/2" shorter and 5-10 lbs lighter, would be a better fit at SILB, as he is even less typical of a NEP OLB than Gocong, who is a slightly bigger & more explosive version of TBC.

 

[FreeTedWilliams]

I was on the Gocong draft binky list long ago. I always thought he had the make-up to play and play well for the Pats

 

[spacecrime]

It's funny. If we were only 18% successful at our jobs we would be fired.

No, if you ran an organization and made it the best in the industry for the past decade, you would not be fired. You would be lauded as the best in the business by everyone in the industry, except for a few bitter morons who would try to overlook your industry-dominating success by pointing out that they would not have done as you did, and therefore you must not be that good. Yeah, it's stupid, but you simply cannot underestimate the brains of some maroons.

For every Mayo there is a Chad Jackson.

Yep, for every Box there is a Toy

 

[DW Toys]

No, if you ran an organization and made it the best in the industry for the past decade, you would not be fired. You would be lauded as the best in the business by everyone in the industry, except for a few bitter morons who would try to overlook your industry-dominating success by pointing out that they would not have done as you did, and therefore you must not be that good. Yeah, it's stupid, but you simply cannot underestimate the brains of some maroons.

Yep, for every Box there is a Toy

Jerod Mayo silly! It took me a second.
Mayo is one of the best posters on this forum. Sorry to those who might have thought I meant him for whatever reason. For Every Jerod Mayo(good) there is a Chad Jackson. Is that better for you Space? "Are we clear?"
DW Toys

 

[Sean Pa Patriot]

I think we need 2 more pages on this guy ,before he is the 2010 version of Adam Seward....

Oh boy we are getting there...

 

[Patjew]

I've never heard of the beast, but clearly he must be signed.

 

[BritPat]

Tendered at 3rd round level. Right, who do we trade to get one?

 

[RobertWeathers]

I've never heard of the beast, but clearly he must be signed.

I laughed out-loud at this one, Patjew. Well done.

 

[DaBruinz]

i don't know what to think of Chris Gocong, this system can either make you or brake you at OLB. it could turn JAG's like vrabel. and TBC in to stars. or turn stars like colvin and AD into JAG's


if they can get Gocong, for a 3rd or 4th round pick and he's contract. would not brake the bank. why not but if it's a 2th round pick i say no this draft is to deep at LB to give up a #2

Vrabel wasn't a JAG when the Pats signed him. Not sure where you get that idea.

Colvin didn't get turned into a "JAG" by the system. And he played pretty damn well for the Pats even after his injury.

These are two perfect examples of a Patriots fan not knowing wtf they are talking about.

 

[RobertWeathers]

Vrabel wasn't a JAG when the Pats signed him. Not sure where you get that idea.

Colvin didn't get turned into a "JAG" by the system. And he played pretty damn well for the Pats even after his injury.

These are two perfect examples of a Patriots fan not knowing wtf they are talking about.

As a 3rd round pick by Pitt, being in their system for 4 years and being somewhat productive as a situational pass rusher, Vrabel wasn't a JAG. Cowher said that they liked him a lot, but there were just better players in front of him that fit better in their system. I think that's fair.

It is interesting that the Pats pretty much paid him like a JAG in his first 3 years...Got him on the cheap..

 

[patsfan-1982]

Vrabel wasn't a JAG when the Pats signed him. Not sure where you get that idea.

Colvin didn't get turned into a "JAG" by the system. And he played pretty damn well for the Pats even after his injury.

These are two perfect examples of a Patriots fan not knowing wtf they are talking about.

yes your right about colvin, but how can you call 4 years in the NFL with 0 starts 7 sacks and 27 tackls not a JAG i never said he was not a great player for the pats but he was far from a big name FA when the pats signed him.