Chris Gocong

[BritPat]

On a football-note, many thought that he would have been a top 20 pick had he gone to a big school and didn't take time off.

Anyway, if his game is anything close to the quality of a human being he is, we'll be set at ILB for years to come.

I'd love to see us playing even more 4-3 next year if we can get Gocong and McKenzie his healthy. Those two, Mayo and Guyton are all capable of playing inside and outside, and it would be fun to watch them blitzing from different positions and moving about. There's a lot of speed there.

 

[BritPat]

I mentioned this 2/15. He is on the block I have read.

DW Toys;

Umenyiora wants out of NYG to start. The G-Man are desperate for DT help and Saftey help. We have to give up quality to get quality. I trade Myron Pryor and James Sanders for Osi in a minute.

The Eagles run a 4-3. Gocong is a very fast young player at 262 lbs and could be the next Vrabel here as he is more suited to the 3-4. The Eagles could take a flyer on AD to get a better suited LB for their team concept. The Eagles would like to move Gocong. Perhaps with a Wheatley (Hobbs is a FA) or a pick. At the end of the day, the Eagles want to move him.

If we can't get Spikes I would take a one or two year shot with Antonio Pierce if he checks out. Great leadership!

From Philadelphiaeagles.com news.


LB CHRIS GOCONG

Moving Chris Gocong to SAM linebacker seemed like such a great idea four years ago, but the experiment clearly hasn't gone as the Eagles hoped. Gocong lost his starting job in 2009 and did not emerge until he played a really strong game in the playoffs against Dallas. Now what?

Well, Gocong is a very good football player. He is terrific on special teams. He plays good downhill football from the line of scrimmage. But he is a linebacker?

In a perfect world, Gocong would love to stay here and be a starting linebacker. But, well, this is the NFL, and there isn't a player more in flux than Gocong. If he were an unrestricted free agent, Gocong could consider options from teams that play a 3-4 scheme and become a full-time edge rusher. But as a restricted free agent, Gocong's next step is uncertain.

Why on earth would you trade Pryor? For a 4-3 DE? And who's the fourth Safety?

Gocong's played well at SAM as well, not sure about that quote.

 

[DarrylS]

I'd love to see us playing even more 4-3 next year if we can get Gocong and McKenzie his healthy. Those two, Mayo and Guyton are all capable of playing inside and outside, and it would be fun to watch them blitzing from different positions and moving about. There's a lot of speed there.

Thought BB has been trying to change the whole D for a while now, perhaps that is why he brought in Tank Williams.. and now with Chung it still may look somewhat different... what always comes to mind is how Lawrence Taylor changed the game, and BB was his coach..not to say that Chung = Taylor... but BB can be very innovative.

 

[RobertWeathers]

I'd love to see us playing even more 4-3 next year if we can get Gocong and McKenzie his healthy. Those two, Mayo and Guyton are all capable of playing inside and outside, and it would be fun to watch them blitzing from different positions and moving about. There's a lot of speed there.

I don't mind a well-timed blitz every now and then but my hot-button in generating a pass rush with 4-5 guys 90% of the time.

 

[BritPat]

Thought BB has been trying to change the whole D for a while now, perhaps that is why he brought in Tank Williams.. and now with Chung it still may look somewhat different... what always comes to mind is how Lawrence Taylor changed the game, and BB was his coach..not to say that Chung = Taylor... but BB can be very innovative.

Definitely, look at the Five and Dime package

I agree BB's been looking to change it for some time, I started a thread on here at the start of the season posing the question of whether he thinks a run stopping D like the 3-4 can be as effective against the pass in this day and age considering the top D's against the pass tended to be smaller, quicker, 4-3 (they have done again this year by the way). That's what the Draft picks at the time said to me, and indeed we went on to play a lot of 4 man fronts even in the sub packages (where we've always played 3-3-5 - it was 4-2-5 and even 4-1-6 at times last year).

I just wonder if we might move towards it even more this off-season.

However with Williams, he suited the nickel packages we had where he could play that hybrid LB-S role a la Rodney, but I think we've moved away from it. Chung's a much more traditional SS.

 

[emoney_33]

Definitely, look at the Five and Dime package

I agree BB's been looking to change it for some time, I started a thread on here at the start of the season posing the question of whether he thinks a run stopping D like the 3-4 can be as effective against the pass in this day and age considering the top D's against the pass tended to be smaller, quicker, 4-3 (they have done again this year by the way). That's what the Draft picks at the time said to me, and indeed we went on to play a lot of 4 man fronts even in the sub packages (where we've always played 3-3-5 - it was 4-2-5 and even 4-1-6 at times last year).

I just wonder if we might move towards it even more this off-season.

However with Williams, he suited the nickel packages we had where he could play that hybrid LB-S role a la Rodney, but I think we've moved away from it. Chung's a much more traditional SS.

5 of the top 10 pass defenses were 3-4 teams.

 

[RobertWeathers]

5 of the top 10 pass defenses were 3-4 teams.

Does that mean that the remaining 5 teams of the top 10 were 4-3 teams?

 

[BritPat]

5 of the top 10 pass defenses were 3-4 teams.

NFL Stats: by Team Category

Six 4-3 teams according to that.

 

[emoney_33]

Does that mean that the remaining 5 teams of the top 10 were 4-3 teams?

The statement was top pass defenses -tended- to be 4-3. A 50-50 split means they didn't tend to be anything, at least in 2009.

Then again there's a lot more to it than just 3-4 vs. 4-3 "base" defense.

 

[emoney_33]

NFL Stats: by Team Category

Six 4-3 teams according to that.

Yards per game? If you want a quick and dirty stat use YDS/A. If you want more in depth adjusted rankings use footballoutsiders.

 

[JackBauer]

Why on earth would you trade Pryor? For a 4-3 DE? And who's the fourth Safety?

Gocong's played well at SAM as well, not sure about that quote.

Well, Sanders is currently the second safety on the roster.

You have to forgive DW, though. He has a long-standing vendetta against Sanders that transcends the boundaries of rational argument.

 

[RobertWeathers]

NFL Stats: by Team Category

Six 4-3 teams according to that.

I know what he meant now. Hes looking at the % of 3-4 teams (around 7 now?) compared to 4-3 teams (24ish). His point may be that, because of scheme, you are finding 3-4 teams have a better chance of being better pass defenses than 4-3 teams.

 

[BritPat]

Yards per game? If you want a quick and dirty stat use YDS/A. If you want more in depth adjusted rankings use footballoutsiders.

I like football outsiders, but they go way to far towards trying to produce the perfect stat. Whether you've gone 16-0 against a weak schedule or a strong schedule, you've still gone 16-0.

But anyway, it's distracting us from the main point of the thread

 

[emoney_33]

I like football outsiders, but they go way to far towards trying to produce the perfect stat. Whether you've gone 16-0 against a weak schedule or a strong schedule, you've still gone 16-0.

But anyway, it's distracting us from the main point of the thread

Even if you don't trust the outsiders methods, Yards per game is bad way of judging a pass defense. Yards per attempt is a far better stat to use if you must use one for a quick and dirty analysis.

I just didn't see the correlation between 2009 pass defenses and 4-3/3-4.

On a side note, next year the entire AFCE will be 3-4!

 

[BritPat]

I know what he meant now. Hes looking at the % of 3-4 teams (around 7 now?) compared to 4-3 teams (24ish). His point may be that, because of scheme, you are finding 3-4 teams have a better chance of being better pass defenses than 4-3 teams.

Cards, Packers, Cowboys, Jets, Dolphins, Ravens, Steelers, Browns, Chargers, Broncos, Chiefs - those teams all played 3-4 last year (you can include us for 3/4 games if you wanted to as well). It will be even more next year by the way - the Bills are changing, and the Redskins are rumoured to be considering it. Us too if we go back to it full time.

But still, look at the names at the top of the list and those that have been there over the years, you're seeing teams in the top 10 that can't stop the run, but are absolutely superb against the pass.

But anyway anyway, can we get passed this?

 

[DW Toys]

Why on earth would you trade Pryor? For a 4-3 DE? And who's the fourth Safety?

Gocong's played well at SAM as well, not sure about that quote.

Seriously Britt. You wouldn't trade Prior a very good young rotational player and Sanders from an area we are deep and that are both desperate needs for the Giants, for a pass rushing value like Osi Ymenyiora? Remember, you have to give something to get something and Osi is only 28.

This was about Gocong and Osi is for another day.

I have no problem believing we can't draft or pick up another Safety in order to get Osi. Also, if you believe Jack, Sanders is our most valuable Safety. That is his opinion and not necessarily all of us. Let me rephrase that Safety to be traded part about this "definite-maybe" trade. The Safety with the least upside we should trade so we know it would not be Chung or Merriweather and in the real world the G Men might not bite on McGowan. Sanders is what he is, a stop gap decent fill-in, but very intelligent Safety with limited size and a limited skill set. That is why I chose him in an improbable trade with the Giants if they bend to Osi's demands to move him where he can start.

All that being said and back to the question at hand, Gocong seems like a great fit here with speed and size to set the edge in a OLB/Pass rusher off the edge mold. SILB works too.
He was the wrong fit as a smaller 4-3 DE/ or 4-3 LB for Philly.
DW Toys

 

[JackBauer]

Seriously Britt. You wouldn't trade Prior a very good young rotational player and Sanders from an area we are deep and that are both desperate needs for the Giants, for a pass rushing value like Osi Ymenyiora? Remember, you have to give something to get something and Osi is only 28.

This was about Gocong and Osi is for another day.

I have no problem believing we can't draft or pick up another Safety in order to get Osi.

All that being said and back to the question at hand, Gocong seems like a great fit here with speed and size to set the edge in a OLB/Pass rusher off the edge mold. SILB works too.
He was the wrong fit as a smaller 4-3 DE/ or 4-3 LB for Philly.
DW Toys

Why on earth would you trade Pryor when you don't even know what you have in him yet? Why would you trade a safety who can either start or rotate in and makes the entire defense better when he's on the field?

Further, what position would Osi play in the Patriots' 3-4 defense?

 

[BritPat]

Even if you don't trust the outsiders methods, Yards per game is bad way of judging a pass defense. Yards per attempt is a far better stat to use if you must use one for a quick and dirty analysis.

I just didn't see the correlation between 2009 pass defenses and 4-3/3-4.

On a side note, next year the entire AFCE will be 3-4!

It's not just last year, it's going back over the last four, five or six years, seeing teams like the Colts (clueless against run games) stopping the pass and winning a shed load of games, even in the post season (I might be stretching that analogy a touch ).

It's really just the conclusion I've come to seeing what other teams are doing and what BB did last year with the Draft. This year's Draft will basically make or break my suspicions.

But like I said, please let us get back to Gocong, I'm surprised Box hasn't posted yet

 

[emoney_33]

It's not just last year, it's going back over the last four, five or six years, seeing teams like the Colts (clueless against run games) stopping the pass and winning a shed load of games, even in the post season (I might be stretching that analogy a touch ).

The Colts are built to play with a lead, they are all about the speed and pass rush but "succeed" because of the offense. Plus Brady and Brees each hung 30+ on them.

But like I said, please let us get back to Gocong, I'm surprised Box hasn't posted yet

OK, back to Gocong, I don't much at all about him

 

[BritPat]

Seriously Britt. You wouldn't trade Prior a very good young rotational player and Sanders from an area we are deep and that are both desperate needs for the Giants, for a pass rushing value like Osi Ymenyiora? Remember, you have to give something to get something and Osi is only 28.

This was about Gocong and Osi is for another day.

I have no problem believing we can't draft or pick up another Safety in order to get Osi.

What if Pryor turns into a Pro-Bowl DT? And what do we do for positional depth? Why create two more needs trading for one player - Umenyiora's a one dimensional pass rusher - we've already got one of those in TBC. And what happens if we go back to the 3-4? Can he even play at OLB?

All that being said and back to the question at hand, Gocong seems like a great fit here with speed and size to set the edge in a OLB/Pass rusher off the edge mold. SILB works too.
He was the wrong fit as a smaller 4-3 DE/ or 4-3 LB for Philly.
DW Toys

He's actually played well at SLB for the Iggles from what I've seen. I don't watch them week in week out, but there's always one of the NFC East teams on over here, plus you get highlight packages and the likes.

I don't see a 3-4 OLB when I look at him, I see a 3-4 SILB. He'd offer a lot of scheme versatility.