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CBA Approval Status

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I heard Randy Moss wants to become a Patriot again so we can trade him back to Al Davis for a 1st rounder from OAK and a 2018 5th round pick
 
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Yes I too yearn for the glory years of prefree agency. Days where you could get into fenway for 50 cent bleacher seats and 15 thousand was considered a good crowd, the Yankees were STILL buying players at their whim, and the Sox sucked Right the good old days

I guess this is sarcasm. I'm not looking for an argument but YOU obviously want one. The Yankees were "BUYING" players back then? Right...Sparky Lyle for Danny Cater is "buying" to you. It's idiotic management to me.I guess the Tigers "BOUGHT" Earl Wilson when Yawkey shipped him out, too, eh? If the Patriots fielded a squad that featured Pete Runnels they would draw less the 15 K too.

I'm not asking to get into the Razor for 50 cents. I DID give up my season tickets I held for 20 years because of the cost.This new "deal" could price me and my family out of a pleasure that was once easily obtained. Guess YOU have unlimited resources and don't mind paying 100 dollars to park,2000 dollars for seating of four and 20 dollar hot dogs and beer. Great.Must be nice to live in YOUR world. I don't.That's no reason to look down your nose at me.
One more thing...pick a Yankee lineup from the 50's or 60's and point out all the "bought" players...I remember(off the top of my head as a Sox fan), with my obviously cheap memory, a team that featured Whitey Ford, Bobby Richardson,Clete Boyer,Tony Kubek, Mickey Mantle, Roger Maris,Moose Skowron,Mel Stottlemyre,Jim Bouton, Al Downing, Joe Pepitone and host of other players who were signed and played most of their careers in New York. Where you get "still buying" from makes me nervous...am I getting senile or are my memories correct? If they are, then YOU are full of bull.

You put words in my mouth implying I want a return to the "good old days" pre-Marvin Miller style,and then get over the top sarcastic. I NEVER meant any such thing.The "good old days" I want for the NFL are the ones that directly precede this new "agreement".
 
One more thing...pick a Yankee lineup from the 50's or 60's and point out all the "bought" players...I remember(off the top of my head as a Sox fan), with my obviously cheap memory, a team that featured Whitey Ford, Bobby Richardson,Clete Boyer,Tony Kubek, Mickey Mantle, Roger Maris,Moose Skowron,Mel Stottlemyre,Jim Bouton, Al Downing, Joe Pepitone and host of other players who were signed and played most of their careers in New York. Where you get "still buying" from makes me nervous...am I getting senile or are my memories correct? If they are, then YOU are full of bull.

I wasn't around then but didn't the MLB draft start in the 60's and prior to that the rich teams got all the good prospects?
 
Miller was the head of MLB union in the late 60s, 70s, and early 80s. He led the union to strike 3 times. He was instrumental in creating the psydo-free market free agency system in baseball where you have ARod making $30 million a year, the Pirates' entire payroll being around $30 million a year, players signing 10 year, $150 million contracts late in their career and teams having to carry their dead weight for 5 years of it because the contract guaranteed, the creation of arbitration, etc.


I was also being sarcastic that it is good new. The overwhelming majority of people feels that Miller really hurt baseball with what he was able to win for the players. It helped to turn MLB to the clear cut #1 sport in this country to a distant #2 and in some areas #3 or #4.

I don't know if all pro player people would be happy with his involvement. Yes, he was able to bring a lot of the player friendly free market perks into free agency (no ceiling on salaries, not salary cap, guaranteed contracts) without their downfalls (there are still salary minimums that the league must abide by). But he did help to turn the league into a very regionalized sport where every year it seems people are growing less interested in it (attendance and ratings are down everywhere where football ratings are increasing) and only in certain towns it is still very popular. Some of the things invloved in the NFL's free agency system may not be on their face pro player, but they are pro-growth in the NFL's popularity who ultimately rewards players. Miller's MLB rewards the players no matter what it does to the game which ultimately, hurts the players because lower attendance and ratings means that players get less money than they could.

I think you're saddling Miller with a lot of MLB's problems that have only tangential relation to labor/management issues.

First of all, let's recognize what baseball was like before Miller. If you want to talk regionalized, how about the fact that from 1936-1956, half of the World Series were Subway Series, and that only stopped when the Dodgers and Giants left town. From 1936-1964, the Yankees participated in all but 7 World Series. All but 9 were won by either the Yankees, Dodgers or Giants.

This is inarguably the most inequitable stretch in MLB history, and Miller didn't take the reigns of the union until two years later. So clearly, nothing he did can be blamed for things that had been true about baseball for decades -- that the same few teams, usually representing the biggest markets, do almost all of the winning.

Baseball's enduring inequity owes little to anything having to do with the union, as opposed to things involving just ownership, such as revenue sharing and rights management, particularly for TV broadcasts. The lack of any sort of revenue sharing gives the Yankees and Red Sox little reason to care about the national popularity of baseball. They've never been more popular or more profitable, so what's it to them?

The lack of shared rights management is an even bigger problem, in that it's largely what perpetuates the huge inequality between small and large market teams. Selling the TV rights as a package not only means that the small-market franchises get a larger share than they otherwise would, it's also a means with which the NFL gets the networks to televise all of the games, period, and gives the league the leverage to get national exposure for teams whose market-size wouldn't warrant it.

Meanwhile, in baseball, you've got a handful of teams with their own house cable networks, and a bunch of others begging local affiliates or the regional FOX sports division to bother to broadcast them. This just compounds the inequity, as not only can a player get more money from a big market team, but it's also the only way to increase his exposure. In the NFL, however, the two biggest single-player brands in recent memory -- Manning + Favre -- didn't need to leave Indianapolis and Green Bay to build their national profiles.

In other words, the NFL is a national sport because the rights to its properties are managed and sold nationally, and baseball remains regional because its rights are managed and sold regionally.

What's more, the different league structures make it impossible for baseball to try to emulate the NFL's salary cap system, because without a big move towards revenue sharing, half of the teams couldn't survive the establishment of any kind of salary floor. In baseball, the owners of teams like the Marlins, A's, Royals, Twins, etc. can make their profits by keeping expenditure down as much as possible. They couldn't afford a salary floor without serious subsidization for a while.
 
I wouldnt use FAST to describe how things moved in the disute at any point.

True, but it looks to be faster than it certainly could have been, and no football is going to get lost, which at the end of the day is really the important point to me at least.

It's been pretty well known for at least 3 years that this was going to get contentious. Deals and negotiations are pretty much like air in a baloon -- they expand to take up all the space and time they are given. Ultimately, they settle when there's an external date looming. Sometimes the date is fixed by contract or law. Most times, it's a date that matters extremely financially to one side, such that blowing the date is more expensive for them than continuing the negotiations is. Part of the art of the deal is not letting the other side know that the date matters to you.

As it turns out, that date was the first preseason games. The owners negotiated hard by pretending those millions weren't crucial to them, but once they got the deal to the point where those dates and that revenue were more critical than whatever deal points were remaining, they started to move.

In the last few days or maybe longer, the players and everyone else have tumbled to the fact that the owners' apparent willingness to give up preseason games was a bluff. And so I think what's happened in the last couple of days is the players are seeing if they can get anything more because of that realization. It's a bit of a game of chicken -- now it's the players who are bluffing. If they delay in a way that does jeopardize preseason, they know the owners are going to take something back out of the deal to compensate for that lost revenue. That's not going to happen. Deals get done when it becomes too expensive for them not to get done, and as I've been saying for 6 months (really, check my posts) that has always been what this is. The key to not getting bogged down is to keep everyone negotiating in their economic best interest, instead of letting them start to take things personally, at which point economic irrationality creeps in and the whole thing can get fouled up. Also, you don't want courts messing with things too much, giving one side a significant advantage over the other. That's why the Eighth Circuit's decision was so important, because Nelson's decision if allowed to stand -- even thought it purported to end the lock out -- would have ultimately put a thumb too heavily on one side of the scale. Where things are 50/50 as they have been through much of this thing, deals get done because they have to get done. This one always had to get done.
 
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I wasn't around then but didn't the MLB draft start in the 60's and prior to that the rich teams got all the good prospects?

no....what was considered out of whack was a team like the Yankees using the Kansas City Athletics as their own AAA farm team...I believe they signed Mantle as an amateur free agent, which is what was common in those days but the truth is, teams with good management fielded good teams...the Yanks,Dodgers, Giants,Cards,Orioles and even the White Sox all put good teams out there year in and out...Yawkey was the LAST owner to integrate(Pumpsie Green) and was known to play favorites (see Ted Williams vs. Jackie Jensen). The Sox traded Earl Wilson to the Tigers when they had Bill Monboquette as a starter and Radatz in the pen,a move that made ZERO sense in a vacuum but that made perfect sense given the pervasive organizational racism that permeated the team. Wilson went on to post 18 and 22 win seasons with the Tigers and pitched in the World Series.
 
Now Marvin Miller is replacing Kessler as the boogeyman because of something an irrelevant 80+ year old said on the radio? Miller is not in charge and Kessler is not running around trying to advance a rogue agenda that Smith is opposed to.

The NFLPA has been running the litigate to negotiate playbook that De Smith promised to run when he was elected. They are now on the last few plays trying to extract a few more concessions.
 
any chance the cba ie players reject this thing and we go back to the drawing board for another month? If they don't think this deal is good, great, go pump gas for a year, see how they like that! Bunch of jerks, I say.
 
ESPN's Chris Mortensen reports "major progress" has been made in Saturday's CBA negotiations, and that the NFLPA* Executive Committee will meet on Monday and likely recommend ratification of the agreement.
As we've learned the hard way in recent days, it's best not to get too hopeful until the deal is actually done, but the finish line is as close as it has ever been. Players could be back at team facilities by as early as Monday, while the beginning of free agency should follow in short order
 
ESPN's Chris Mortensen reports "major progress" has been made in Saturday's CBA negotiations, and that the NFLPA* Executive Committee will meet on Monday and likely recommend ratification of the agreement.
As we've learned the hard way in recent days, it's best not to get too hopeful until the deal is actually done, but the finish line is as close as it has ever been. Players could be back at team facilities by as early as Monday, while the beginning of free agency should follow in short order

Eventually,
he'll be right!
 
ESPN currently reporting free agency is likely July 30.
Another week.

worldwide leader said:
With that timeline incorporated, it's likely that free agents -- and possibly re-signings -- might not be able to start until July 30 at the earliest. The sides plan to continue sorting out the free agency process over the weekend, according to the source.

2011 NFL lockout -- Camps eyed for player ratification vote, source says - ESPN

Is that also the MLB trade deadline?
The transactions page might explode.
 
Now Marvin Miller is replacing Kessler as the boogeyman because of something an irrelevant 80+ year old said on the radio? Miller is not in charge and Kessler is not running around trying to advance a rogue agenda that Smith is opposed to.

The NFLPA has been running the litigate to negotiate playbook that De Smith promised to run when he was elected. They are now on the last few plays trying to extract a few more concessions.

Kessler wrote the playbook for the NFL litigate to negotiate strategy. One of his earlier game plans is already in the union lawyers HOF...it's called White et al v. NFL...
 
A thread titled "cba approval status" should contain only that..not peoples comments and arguments about it.
 
I think you're saddling Miller with a lot of MLB's problems that have only tangential relation to labor/management issues.

First of all, let's recognize what baseball was like before Miller. If you want to talk regionalized, how about the fact that from 1936-1956, half of the World Series were Subway Series, and that only stopped when the Dodgers and Giants left town. From 1936-1964, the Yankees participated in all but 7 World Series. All but 9 were won by either the Yankees, Dodgers or Giants.

This is inarguably the most inequitable stretch in MLB history, and Miller didn't take the reigns of the union until two years later. So clearly, nothing he did can be blamed for things that had been true about baseball for decades -- that the same few teams, usually representing the biggest markets, do almost all of the winning.

Baseball's enduring inequity owes little to anything having to do with the union, as opposed to things involving just ownership, such as revenue sharing and rights management, particularly for TV broadcasts. The lack of any sort of revenue sharing gives the Yankees and Red Sox little reason to care about the national popularity of baseball. They've never been more popular or more profitable, so what's it to them?

The lack of shared rights management is an even bigger problem, in that it's largely what perpetuates the huge inequality between small and large market teams. Selling the TV rights as a package not only means that the small-market franchises get a larger share than they otherwise would, it's also a means with which the NFL gets the networks to televise all of the games, period, and gives the league the leverage to get national exposure for teams whose market-size wouldn't warrant it.

Meanwhile, in baseball, you've got a handful of teams with their own house cable networks, and a bunch of others begging local affiliates or the regional FOX sports division to bother to broadcast them. This just compounds the inequity, as not only can a player get more money from a big market team, but it's also the only way to increase his exposure. In the NFL, however, the two biggest single-player brands in recent memory -- Manning + Favre -- didn't need to leave Indianapolis and Green Bay to build their national profiles.

In other words, the NFL is a national sport because the rights to its properties are managed and sold nationally, and baseball remains regional because its rights are managed and sold regionally.

What's more, the different league structures make it impossible for baseball to try to emulate the NFL's salary cap system, because without a big move towards revenue sharing, half of the teams couldn't survive the establishment of any kind of salary floor. In baseball, the owners of teams like the Marlins, A's, Royals, Twins, etc. can make their profits by keeping expenditure down as much as possible. They couldn't afford a salary floor without serious subsidization for a while.

Miller inherited the same problems Gene Upshaw inherited in the NFL, bot changed it. Upshaw for the betterment of the league, Miller for the detriment. Yes, both men improved the compensation for the players immensly, but Miller helped to create a system that rewarded small market teams for not spending anything and allowed big market teams to buy championships. It was a huge portion of his doing.

Gene Upshaw was very instrumental in pushing the owners to come up with a revenue sharing model. He knew that without the big market teams sharing parts of their revenues with small market teams, the players would not get all of what is coming to him. From the mid-80s to his death, he was very much into pushing for revenue sharing. Miller didn't share that same forsight. Granted Upshaw did have the advantage of seeing the mess that MLB baseball had become with no cap or revenue sharing.

The general concensus is that Miller did screw up a lot of what is wrong with MLB today. He even today doesn't understand what a salary cap means to the future prosperity of the NFL. Here is what he said in February:

“I would go on the offensive,” Miller said in a telephone interview from his apartment on the Upper East Side of Manhattan. “I would demand the end of the salary cap now and in the future and go from there. You’ve got to show the owners you mean it. I’d follow it immediately with a series of meetings with players to work out their demands for changes in their contracts. And I’d serve them to the owners. I’d show them you’re not kidding.”

Marvin Miller Says NFL's `Company Union' Needs to Play Offense in Talks - Bloomberg

He doesn't get that a salary cap promotes parity which is what makes the NFL a national sport and why MLB is regionalized.

Miller is very much a main contributor to what MLB is today. He had no interest in trying to create a level playing field for teams throughout MLB. He wanted a free market system with no rules. Upshaw was smarter than him in this matter and he knew that allowing Jerry Jones and Daniel Snyder to have $400 million payrolls doesn't help his players as a whole if the Glazier family and Mike Brown spending $30 million on payroll.
 
Now Marvin Miller is replacing Kessler as the boogeyman because of something an irrelevant 80+ year old said on the radio? Miller is not in charge and Kessler is not running around trying to advance a rogue agenda that Smith is opposed to.

The NFLPA has been running the litigate to negotiate playbook that De Smith promised to run when he was elected. They are now on the last few plays trying to extract a few more concessions.

First, Miller is giving Smith bad advice to push to get rid of the salary cap. So he is a negative force.

Second, Kessler has been running around with a rouge agenda since before Upshaw died which is to push for the same vision Marvin Miller pushed for. Plenty of reporters have reported about how he goes rouge and had to be pulled in by Upshaw before he died and now Smith. The evidence of that is pretty overwhelming.

Third, Smith may be doing what he promised that doesn't mean he doesn't have people around him trying to push a different agenda. The owners probably have those people too, but they do a better job keeping them out of the spotlight. You have dozens of people negotiating from both sides and there are bound to be people who go off the reservation. That is typical in a lot of negotiations of this magnitude. The more people who throw into negotiations, the more likely it goes off track.
 
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