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Can we now stop with: "being 6 million under the cap is wonderful"?

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That's my point. You don't turn into Bobby Grier by overpaying players a little bit. What is it, like smoking, or drug addiction, or eating potato chips? You can't stop once you try a little? Come on.



I trust this group enough to not pull a Lane and Rucci. Besides, Lane/Rucci didn't kill us. They were a couple mil a year - five year deals. What killed us in the late 90's was draft mismanagement, not FA signings.

Real Estate agents must love to see you coming, "remember dear you have to overpay to get the house you want" LOL
 
The Pats system has some flaws and can potentially cause a down year or two much like the Steelers. But the Pats' way of doing thing almost guarantees the Pats will be a consistent contender.

I have to disagree with your comparison to the Steelers. Since the first rebuilding year in 2000, the BB Pats have never been close to the implosion that Pittsburgh is experiencing right now.

2002 was the worst at 9-7. I don't see the comparison between that and what Pittsburgh has every few years. Their "beta" swings are far more volatile.
 
Ah, I don't believe the Pats have until March for charges against the 2006 cap. December, some time in December it ends, I believe. even if they don't sign pending FA's by then, they ought to be able to get a few guys to re-write their contracts and change next year's bonus money to this year, effectively clearing cap dollars for 2007 without signing any of their own FA's.
 
Can we also acknowledge that we have 53 men on the roster - and that spending $6 million for the sake of spending $6 million makes no sense either?

Can we also acknowledge that the main reason we have that cap space is because the team had hoped to sign Branch to a long term contract, keeping a good chunk of cap space free to afford that.

Why is that a bad thing. Can you imagine this team with both Branch and Caldwell at WR?

So let's just end the criticism about the cap. Why I personally would love to sign a top tier WR or LB or CB to add depth to the team, exactly how many top tier guys at those position remain unsigned in December?
 
You contradicted yourself when you named a lack of "talented depth" at key positions, yet blast the model that has successfully brought 3 championships. Would you prefer the Pats ditch their model, and throw money at "name" players, or overpay to keep talented players who are not worth their demands?

The Patriots' model has been successful in sustaining success. Look at where we are at here, in 2006. Sitting in a battle for a first round bye, and a serious contender for the Super Bowl. Look back 5 years to 2001. We've had 5 (going on 6) consecutive winning seasons, and with the exception of 2002, have been legitimate contenders each year. If the organization is running so poorly, who would you trade places with? Which team would you rather be right now? In the NFL today, there is no unbeatable team, so I'd rather be successful every year, rather than mortgage the future and cross my fingers that my team can win right now. I don't think there are many teams that can match the Pats' depth, and it's not going to be a normal occurrence that we are $6mil under the cap.
 
I think MDD has some valid points,we are not a bad team at 9-3,though,so we cant have too many gaps...I didnt think Heath Evans was a bad fullback,might have missed a block re the safety,but he has made a lot of good ones,I think BB likes him also,that tells you something..
 
I have to disagree with your comparison to the Steelers. Since the first rebuilding year in 2000, the BB Pats have never been close to the implosion that Pittsburgh is experiencing right now.

2002 was the worst at 9-7. I don't see the comparison between that and what Pittsburgh has every few years. Their "beta" swings are far more volatile.

We haven't been running our system as long as the Steelers have either. They have been consistent Super Bowl contenders since the mid 90s. They haven't had the highs we have had, but I expect if Belichick is coaching five years from now we might have a year or two like the Steelers are having now.
 
We haven't been running our system as long as the Steelers have either. They have been consistent Super Bowl contenders since the mid 90s. They haven't had the highs we have had, but I expect if Belichick is coaching five years from now we might have a year or two like the Steelers are having now.

It's possible, but I'd be surprised to see a losing season in the next 5 years under BB unless something goes haywire. Two first rounders (and the many mid-round comps from the FA's lost this year) next year will bring much needed new talent. The DL and OL starters are all locked up for the next 3-4 years. This year, organizationally, can actually be seen as the "rebuilding year". 9-3 in the "rebuilding year" is not a bad trick at all.
 
It's possible, but I'd be surprised to see a losing season in the next 5 years under BB unless something goes haywire. Two first rounders (and the many mid-round comps from the FA's lost this year) next year will bring much needed new talent. The DL and OL starters are all locked up for the next 3-4 years. This year, organizationally, can actually be seen as the "rebuilding year". 9-3 in the "rebuilding year" is not a bad trick at all.

We're down to plugging in some talented picks at LB and DB, then I don't see many picks making this team.

I'd like to see one more receiver emerge to join Troy and Reche, but with Jackson in the future I don't really see a need for a WR otherwise.

Even Peyton relies on 2 receivers and a tight end. We are young and strong everywhere else.
 
I don't understand the hysteria over being $6 million over the cap.

Do you realize that's about the league average?
 
I don't understand the hysteria over being $6 million over the cap.

Do you realize that's about the league average?


"League average" includes the purging teams (Tenn) and chronic underspenders (AZ).
 
"League average" includes the purging teams (Tenn) and chronic underspenders (AZ).

The Titans were purging talented players because they'd gotten themselves in such bad shape. I think even after dumping McNair's contract, they're still pretty tight against the cap, though I don't have the numbers in front of me.

Also, Arizona's "underspending" has been overrated of late -- especially with the huge contract they gave to Edge.

And even if you were correct on the particulars, you'd still be missing the point of the term "average."

The average does include teams that are undersspending. It also includes teams that have gotten themselves in tight spots.

We're in between them.
 
"League average" includes the purging teams (Tenn) and chronic underspenders (AZ).

Actually I'd guess that $6 million under is on the high side. Average in past years has been abou $2-4 million in reserve to use in case of injuries, knowing that most street free agents aren't going to command more than $500k

I guess what I'd be most interested in hearing from you is exactly how you'd spend this $6 million today.

Exactly which players do you see out there worth signing for depth. Who on the 53 man roster should be cut to make room for them as well?

Do you think you could even spend $6 million as of today?

Of course, the time to get top tier or even bargain talent in free agency was long ago. The Patriots were not exceptionally active in free agency either - making some moves but holding a good portion of cap space available to extend key veterans.

Since that didn't work out in every case we still have a larger portion of cap space available - which is no big deal really - and hopefully it will be used to free up additional space in future years by prorating other contracts.

But back to your point - you want the $6 million used for depth - exactly who do you want - and exactly who do you want cut off the current roster?
 
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Actually I'd guess that $6 million under is on the high side. Average in past years has been abou $2-4 million in reserve to use in case of injuries, knowing that most street free agents aren't going to command more than $500k

From Reiss' most recent mailbag:
As for the salary cap, I had the Patriots with about $6.4 million worth of space last week. That’s close to the league average.
 

It's academic whether its high, average, or low.

How should it be spent? MDD wants better depth.

Which players are out there better than the guys we have now who we shoud spend it on?

The reason we have the cap space isn't because the Krafts are unwilling to spend. It's because they were willing to give it to Branch if he agreed to a reasonable contract.

Unless MDD or anyone else knows of some great guys out there who can add depth to our squad, and can tell me who is getting pushed off the roster to make a place for them, my expectation is that the cap space eventually gets used to prorate existing contracts, giving us added cap space in future years.

That IS a good thing - its certainly not a bad thing.
 
It's academic whether its high, average, or low.

How should it be spent? MDD wants better depth.

Which players are out there better than the guys we have now who we shoud spend it on?

The reason we have the cap space isn't because the Krafts are unwilling to spend. It's because they were willing to give it to Branch if he agreed to a reasonable contract.

Unless MDD or anyone else knows of some great guys out there who can add depth to our squad, and can tell me who is getting pushed off the roster to make a place for them, my expectation is that the cap space eventually gets used to prorate existing contracts, giving us added cap space in future years.

That IS a good thing - its certainly not a bad thing.

I'm not disagreeing with you that we kept some cap money in store to resign players like Branch... as well as Graham, Koppen, and Samuel, too. So far, we've got one inked to a new deal.

The reason, however, why it is NOT academic that we're at around league average for cap space left is that some people are acting like the Pats are the only team under the cap, and that somehow, because we didn't go crazy in the post-CBA bull market in free agency, our FO was lax in restocking the team with talent.

It's a made-up issue. There's really very little basis for it, and the only people who are talking about it are the panicmongerers in the local sports media, and the chicken littles who believe them.

People are always looking for someone to blame whenever the team has some problems. We've lost Mel Mitchell, Tebucky Jones, Randall Gay, Rodney Harrison and Eugene Wilson for significant time at safety, and have had Samuel, Hobbs and Chad Scott all in and out w/ injury -- and the fact that we're having depth injuries from this injury plague (on players from ages 22 as well as 34, mind you) is the fault of the FO for not spending enough?

We had Monty Beisel wash out, Barry Gardener break a leg and Seau break an arm -- and again, the problem is because we didn't spend that $6 million dollars?

The same guys who were available when we picked up Seau are available now -- Huff, Claiborne, Sharper -- and we still don't want them.

So whom should we have spend money on? Julian Peterson and Lavar Arrington? They are both overrated and were way overpaid. Witherspoon and Thornton are too small to fit our system -- and were also overpaid.

There wasn't weren't many talented players available, and the ones that were were landing insane contracts because of the CBA-induced boom-time spending.

Its the Pats' restraint in not going after expensive, overrated guys like Peterson that will eventually result in our being able to hang onto guys like Ty Warren.
 
The primary thing I would have done differently? If you're going to go old at key positions in the defensive backfield and linebacker then sign a lot of them.

You swallow your pride and bring back McGinest and Law. God forbid: 1.) you overpay someone by 20%, or 2.) you're only FOUR million under the cap.

So what you are saying is that you could have signed McGinest and Law and have it only take 2M of your cap? You are dreaming and throwing numbers around without understanding.

6M of cap space sounds huge to many, but it's a lot less than it sounds. The cap has gone up more than 50% in the last five years. Minimum salaries are up. To do everything you have been suggesting in this thread would mean pushing off a great deal of money to the future, probably requiring a purge eventually.

Criticisms of the team ultimately boil down to "they didn't get enough talent" and "the front office didn't draft well enough". But your asessment that underspending is the problem is misleading. Spending more does not automatically mean getting what you paid for, just look at all the expensive busts around the NFL. Talent evaluation is difficult and uncertain for even the best. And in the end fans of 31 teams can say many of the same things about their front office as you did.
 
The primary thing I would have done differently? If you're going to go old at key positions in the defensive backfield and linebacker then sign a lot of them.

You swallow your pride and bring back McGinest and Law. God forbid: 1.) you overpay someone by 20%, or 2.) you're only FOUR million under the cap.

Fair response.

I do not know how having McGinest and Law really helps the team in the areas that I am most concerned about -
protecting Tom Brady
covering RBs/TEs
 
FWIW - IMO, it is safe to presume that 2 million out of the $6 million plus in cap space will be eaten up with earned NTLBE incentives.
 
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