Butler visiting Saints

[Soul_Survivor88]

Indeed... expect more leaks to come out over the next couple days

 

[TruthSeeker]

you must have not been around this past week.

Do you have a link that quotes Malcolm Butler saying anything? If not, I think PFK is right.

 

[Soul_Survivor88]

Schefter dropping hints of a some kind of deal taking place this week

 

[QuantumMechanic]

As for those people who say "Why would BB let Butler go for less after tagging him with the first round tender?"

• BB doesn't think Butler is worth that much but is using the tag as a cheap version of the franchise tag to keep Butler under NE control knowing that teams almost never sign away first-round tendered RFAs.
• Hand-in-hand with that, since he knows no team is going to give Butler an offer sheet, if BB does want picks for Butler he will have to let Butler go for less.

Sure, NE has "leverage" in the sense that no one can take Butler away without them allowing it. But that only goes so far. If you announce to the world "I have Special Widget X and I'm selling it for $100" and it turns out no one is interested in it at $100, then your control over it isn't going to magically make a sale happen. Even though you pegged it at $100 you're going to need to come down in price.

 

[JMC00]

Changed his twitter header to a huge Pats logo. Maybe he does want to stay.

 

[FoxboroFlyer]

That, or a "thanks for everything" gesture.
Interesting.

 

[Mack Herron]

It is certainly possible that both Butler and BB both want him in NE. We can infer there is a disagreement about value, which is true in most negotiations. They could have agreed to let Butler find out his current value with other teams the way Hightower did. While it doesn't feel encouraging to know he is in NO negotiating a possible contract, we do not know the value of that contract or what Butler or BB might think of it. I still see scenarios where Butler returns to play in NE.

 

[signbabybrady]

Changed his twitter header to a huge Pats logo. Maybe he does want to stay.

 

[Kargetina]

Malcolm, stay!

 

[JarOfMayo51]

Malcolm Butler can wait to get paid when he becomes an UNRESTRICTED FREE AGENT.

As a restricted free agent, he's still within his rights to contact other teams to see if any of them would be willing to trade draft capital for him and give him a big contract

If he doesn't get what he's looking for or can't convince a team to trade a pick on top of a new deal, then he has no choice but to play out his last year as a RFA

I don't think Butler is doing anything wrong and I don't recall him having any disparaging remarks towards anyone during the process


I hope he stays here, he's a great story and a super bowl legend

 

[patfanken]

A couple of points:

1. I think Mack has hit upon something. How different is this from what the Pats just did for Hightower/McCourty, etc. There is an obvious disagreement in what Butler's market is as an RFA. Let him go down to NO and see IF another team will meet their demands. IF he finds out the Pats were closer to reality than they thought, they can come back and work out their differences, or just come back and play 17 here and then go to UFA next season.

2. I know Miguel showed us an example of how NO COULD create a deal that would sign Butler to a market deal and still get under the cap, but the question is why would they. It just adds another level of cost to this deal, because future years will hinder future flexibility. That is unless you are a believer in Felger's "the cap is crap" mantra.

3. So if they make a market deal for Butler, and do a sign and trade with the Pats for the 32nd pick (which I think is a bit low), it would look like this. Cooks for Butler, plus the fact NO would have added a high cost asset rather than a low cost one the Pats added, plus you (at least to some degree) screw up your cap flexibility going forward.

So NO has to ask themselves, "IS Butler actually worth the cost, or would they be better served making those 2 first round picks and having them relatively cheap for the next 5 years.

4. If NO offers him anything LESS than a market offer, it will be interesting to see if the Pats come back to match it.

5. And one last thing that hasn't been mentioned before and I think is a factor in the Pats thinking on this. Malcolm Butler is small of stature and plays the game VERY hard. He has been on the field for well over 90% of the team's defensive snaps over the last 2 years, and you have to wonder just how much longer can he last without a significant injury? Now his "availability" has to be a plus for him in these negotiations, but.....

6. Things that will make me feel better if this DOES end up being simply a WR vs CB trade of equal quality players.

a. We get a draft pick that leads to the selection of a CB who projects to being as good as Malcolm down the road. OR...

b. We resign Revis for $8-9MM (with the Jets paying $6MM) and the rest incentives, and he comes back in shape and motivated to restore his legacy. Remember we don't need Revis to be as good as Revis circa 2016. We need him just to be an upgrade over Logan Ryan. OR....

c. Cyrus Jones makes a leap and proves to be as effective a Ryan was

 

[The Gr8est]

A couple of points:

1. I think Mack has hit upon something. How different is this from what the Pats just did for Hightower/McCourty, etc. There is an obvious disagreement in what Butler's market is as an RFA. Let him go down to NO and see IF another team will meet their demands. IF he finds out the Pats were closer to reality than they thought, they can come back and work out their differences, or just come back and play 17 here and then go to UFA next season.

2. I know Miguel showed us an example of how NO COULD create a deal that would sign Butler to a market deal and still get under the cap, but the question is why would they. It just adds another level of cost to this deal, because future years will hinder future flexibility. That is unless you are a believer in Felger's "the cap is crap" mantra.

3. So if they make a market deal for Butler, and do a sign and trade with the Pats for the 32nd pick (which I think is a bit low), it would look like this. Cooks for Butler, plus the fact NO would have added a high cost asset rather than a low cost one the Pats added, plus you (at least to some degree) screw up your cap flexibility going forward.

So NO has to ask themselves, "IS Butler actually worth the cost, or would they be better served making those 2 first round picks and having them relatively cheap for the next 5 years.

4. If NO offers him anything LESS than a market offer, it will be interesting to see if the Pats come back to match it.

5. And one last thing that hasn't been mentioned before and I think is a factor in the Pats thinking on this. Malcolm Butler is small of stature and plays the game VERY hard. He has been on the field for well over 90% of the team's defensive snaps over the last 2 years, and you have to wonder just how much longer can he last without a significant injury? Now his "availability" has to be a plus for him in these negotiations, but.....

6. Things that will make me feel better if this DOES end up being simply a WR vs CB trade of equal quality players.

a. We get a draft pick that leads to the selection of a CB who projects to being as good as Malcolm down the road. OR...

b. We resign Revis for $8-9MM (with the Jets paying $6MM) and the rest incentives, and he comes back in shape and motivated to restore his legacy. Remember we don't need Revis to be as good as Revis circa 2016. We need him just to be an upgrade over Logan Ryan. OR....

c. Cyrus Jones makes a leap and proves to be as effective a Ryan was

Useful post as usual Ken, but point 6b makes me vomit.

I don't see that Revis offers anything to the Pats that cannot be obtained elsewhere cheaper, and for a player with upside.

Add in your suggested pay of 8-9 million, even though the Rats would be responsible for 6 million of it, and the fact that he would take up a roster spot makes it a non-starter for me.

And all of that doesn't even take into account the Pats bad-mouthing he has engaged in since he rejoined the Rats.

Friends don't let friends sign Revis.

 

[Mcp1982]

If I were the Pats I would accept a first next yr or even the year after for Butler. Ditto for JG. That way, Pats are setup with 2-3 first rd picks right at the ideal time to draft Brady's replacement. Risk of course is Brady gets hurt or his play cliffs this year and they squander a year with a stacked team, but that is probably an acceptable risk to be setup with multiple first rounders in what will be a better QB draft next year or the year after

 

[1960Pats]

If I were the Pats I would accept a first next yr or even the year after for Butler. Ditto for JG. That way, Pats are setup with 2-3 first rd picks right at the ideal time to draft Brady's replacement. Risk of course is Brady gets hurt or his play cliffs this year and they squander a year with a stacked team, but that is probably an acceptable risk to be setup with multiple first rounders in what will be a better QB draft next year or the year after

I like players over picks. I would rather see Butler stay than take a chance on a draft pick.

The same goes for Garoppolo. It's comforting to know that the Pats think he's the future after Brady.

 

[Soul_Survivor88]

I think the source is over-embellishing here. We'll see I guess

 

[SHOWTIME15]

 

[Soul_Survivor88]

I think the source is over-embellishing here. We'll see I guess

And then there's this...

 

[Todd Bradley]

And then there's this...

Who are these guys and why do their tweets keep getting posted?

Nothing they've said since free agency began has been a scoop. It's all been Captain Obvious level statements that most people on this board could wager to guess.

Mind as well post Incarcerated Bob and Erika Leigh while we're at it.

 

[Soul_Survivor88]

I think the source is over-embellishing here. We'll see I guess

Ok, maybe PFC was onto something

 

[Soul_Survivor88]

Wow... she's hot. Wish I could be that kid