Butler & Saints working towards finalizing a deal (Thread now UFC Pats Fans Event)

[Edelmania]

Flowers was a 4th round pick. Ninko is still around too as number 1 reserve. Don't discount Hightower, he is a good sack producer.

Ninko is getting very old and he was not very good last year, hes becoming very slow. Hightower can rush the passer but he is not an end. Flowers was a 4th round pick, but he took a year to develop and not every 4th round pick works out like that so you cant rely on them. Thats like saying Tom Brady was a 6th round pick so I can count on my next 6th round QB to be a quality starter.

 

[Bobsyouruncle]

So BB and Lombardi don't know the rules?
Have you studied the cba? Are you aware the league has rules that are not in the cba?
Have you reviewed all of those rules.?



See this further proves my point. They didn't trade the player after picking them they traded the pick before it was used. Why? Because they can't do it the other way. It's against the rules.



A rule doesn't not exist because you don't understand its purpose.






You are simply wrong. If you don't want to believe me take it up with BB and Lombardi. Clearly you think you know the rules better than they do because they agree with me and you are saying they are wrong.


Perhaps it doesn't but that doesn't mean I can murder my ex wife because the law against speeding doesn't say I can't.



And butler is an RFA.
But BB (and Lombardi) didn't say you can't talk about trading an RFA who didn't sign the tender. They says you cannot talk about trading a player who is not under contract.

It is plain and simple.
You either agree with me or you are saying you know the rules better than BB and Lombardi. What would lead you to think you know the rules better than them?

They traded the players after picking them. Manning was drafted by SD. Rivers by NY. They traded after picking, before contracts.

 

[FoxboroFlyer]

Mr. Butler stays!
Bills baking the cupcakes.
Done deal!

(My hopes, and dreams...No news)

 

[ivanvamp]

They traded the players after picking them. Manning was drafted by SD. Rivers by NY. They traded after picking, before contracts.

Correct. Here's a picture of Eli on draft night, holding up his Chargers jersey, looking none too thrilled. He was drafted by SD, then, because he refused to sign a contract with them, was dealt to NY.

Here's the story...

Archie Manning gives details on why Eli refused to play for the Chargers

So we have actual, real-live evidence of a player who was offered a contract by a team (SD), but did not sign it, yet that team negotiated and executed a trade of that player to another team.

I assume that they could do it because they were just technically trading the "rights" to those players, not the actual players themselves. But nonetheless, they obviously discussed, and executed, a trade involving players not under contract with any NFL team.

(though they weren't free agents...and maybe that's a HUGE and fundamental difference here)

 

[FoxboroFlyer]

Correct. Here's a picture of Eli on draft night, holding up his Chargers jersey, looking none too thrilled. He was drafted by SD, then, because he refused to sign a contract with them, was dealt to NY.

Here's the story...

Archie Manning gives details on why Eli refused to play for the Chargers

Gross.
Now I gotta take another shower.

 

[The Scrizz]

That was under a previous CBA. Plus the Mannings can do whatever the f@ck they like.

 

[festy1986]

That was under a previous CBA. Plus the Mannings can do whatever the f@ck they like.

And 15 years from now Brady will have 2 boys winning more bowls than the Manning bros

 

[ivanvamp]

That was under a previous CBA. Plus the Mannings can do whatever the f@ck they like.

Lots of things tend to stay in the CBA as they go from one to the next. I don't know when this particular rule was put it.

 

[ausbacker]

That was under a previous CBA. Plus the Mannings can do whatever the f@ck they like.

Like allegedly, revive a dying career by taking a substance such as GH, known for its performance enhancing qualities then face no real investigation and be absolved of the possibility publicly?

 

[Mr. Objective]

Uhhh. Yes there is, Article 4 Section 8 in the CBA.

(b) A Club extending a Required Tender must, for so long as that Tender is extended, have a good faith intention to employ the player receiving the Tender at the Tender compensation level during the upcoming season


Pat have extended a tender offer to Butler.. At this point only thing the Pats can do when it comes to Butler is talk to him about a new deal. Them giving him a tender and then talking to another team about a trade would mean they weren't acting in GOOD FAITH INTENTION TO EMPLOY him this season. Which would be a violation of Arictle 4 Section 8 of the CBA.


Straight from the horse's mouth Bill Belichick

“They don’t have a signed contract. They can’t talk about trading a player that isn’t signed.”

BELICHICK: PATS HAVEN'T TALKED TO PANTHERS ABOUT PEPPERS


BUTLER ISN'T SIGNED.

Yes, I know about Art. 4, Section 8, which I referred to in my comment. What I was taking issue with was AndyJohnson's claim that there is a general rule that prohibits a team from having trade discussions about a player not under contract not only in the case where an RFA has not signed a tender offer--a situation to which Art. 4, Sec. 8 applies--but under any circumstances.

I disagree with you, however, that Art. 4, Sec. 8 makes it absolutely clear that NE and NO can't have trade talks about Butler at this point for the reasons Ivanvamp gives above.

 

[dtbrks]

I can't take it anymore!!!!!!

 

[ivanvamp]

Like allegedly, revive a dying career by taking a substance such as GH, known for its performance enhancing qualities then face no real investigation and be absolved of the possibility publicly?

When you contrast how the NFL handled the Peyton HGH case with the Brady "Deflategate" case, it should make any objective party sick to their stomach.

There was literally NO evidence that Brady did ANYTHING wrong. And HGH was *ACTUALLY* sent to Peyton's house, from a totally sketchy source, right at the time he was making a near-miraculous recovery from potentially career-ending neck surgery, only to go on to have the greatest season any QB has ever had. And as this news broke, Peyton sent a team of people in to rifle through files and to meet with a witness who, amazingly, right after that meeting went back on his claims.

But Brady is suspended four games and Peyton's name gets cleared like *that* (snaps fingers).

It's just reprehensible.

 

[Big Bucks]

Regarding the chain, what are people on about.. lol the thing is hideous.

 

[cmasspatsfan]

Do some of you really not envision a scenario where the thoughts of NO and NE front offices thoughts or intentions aren't conveyed to the other without breaking any rules. Wouldn't that benefit everyone including the player? Even if the Pats trade MB doesn't mean they didn't have good intentions with the tender.

 

[KDPPatsfan85]

A cryptic message? Nothing changed, but change about to change and see change

Butler posts frustratingly cryptic message amid Saints trade rumors

 

[Ivan]

Longer this goes on the less likely it gets done. I think that benefits everyone. Butler would get more by returning to NE and having a great season and getting the UFA $ he really wants. Patriots win by having Butler back and a great team all the way around next season. Saints win because Butler isn't worth their #11, and they would be better off drafting at #11 and #32, or maximizing those picks by dropping down.

 

[cmasspatsfan]

I agree Ivan, I don't think NO made an official offer because they would force the Pats to match or have to give up their 11th pick which appears they don't want to do. I think he plays here next year, after that not sure.

 

[mgteich]

What is interesting to me is that his agent can't find a team much lower in the 1st round to make an acceptable offer.

 

[Ice_Ice_Brady]

Do some of you really not envision a scenario where the thoughts of NO and NE front offices thoughts or intentions aren't conveyed to the other without breaking any rules. Wouldn't that benefit everyone including the player? Even if the Pats trade MB doesn't mean they didn't have good intentions with the tender.

This has been my thinking about this as well. There are certainly situations where the player would benefit from open trade talks, such as this one. The idea that a team "intends to employ the player" is another one of these hogwash, giant gray area things. Either force them to keep the player or allow them to trade the player.

I absolutely think New England was aware of New Oreleans' interest in Butler, well before NO brought him in. It's obvious to everyone here except AndyJohnson, who is willing to accept far-fetched, absurd coincidences to believe that isn't the case. Yeah, it was reported that NE-NO had interest in including Butler in a swap...but that was just speculation and false reporting...sure it was. Just a giant coincidence that they also have brought in Butler for negotiations. And will be a astronomical coincidence when the Patriots magically strike a deal to trade Butler, because the Saints and Patriots both thought that the Butler negotiations would be for the #11 overall pick, which it won't be. Unbelievable homerism required to accept this story,

 

[pherein]

Just curious, and maybe only Saints fans will understand this, but is the "pigs in NASA gear" a reference to Jim Henderson's classic local call when kicker Garrett Hartley nailed the game winning FG against the Vikings (and Favre) to put the Saints in the Super Bowl? If it was, great find. If it wasn't, you can still claim it was, just don't let others know!!

Yep thats it , Common saying in NO during the 45 years of being a laughing stock sports franchise was "When Pigs fly" when ever someone brought up making a SB.
Seemed we were plagued with strange mess ups and crazy plays like the Mississippi miracle that we would have almost made a playoff for a 1st time, but then Carney misses the extra point lol



I didnt see the FG vs the Vikings. Before they kicked it my stomach couldnt handle it after 45 years of missing these moments and blowing it every time. The Faith and just believe we always preach to fans was attacked by the "We are going to lose again", because we never win, ever. We would miss the FG and mess up again.

I told someone the historical joke about someone leaving a Football game tickit in a car , and then when realizing it ran to his car later. The car was broken into and now there was 2 tickets in the car, because the team was so bad, lol. That joke was historically created/started in NO, because it was a real story in the news papers lol.
We never win.

I dont think alot of Saints fans will admit this , but as soon as Hartley walked up to to kick the FG I ran to the bathroom and puked. I couldnt handle it as a long time hard fan of a team that always messed up important moments. We were going to miss, I knew it and lost faith. Hartley had just missed the same kick a few weeks ago to lose the game. Youll usually see Saints fans not look at those moments almost like preying, because we are preying "Oh please god give a shot" lol.
Its now one of my favorite moments ever in my life. I think what SP said to Hartley helped alot.


So the "Pigs have flown" , "hell has frozen over" (also another phase used in NO about the team) was a reference to a phase everyone in NO is familiar with.
My Icon? I work for NASA , but its also reference to "Pigs did fly" once, now the chance we make it back to the SB is if pigs go to space lol.
Sorry long explanation for a silly thing Bush knocking out the mascot was just a plus lol