Busy Day: Pats Sign Matt Tobin

[ATippett56]

the mystery man is Jelks

Patriots OT Andrew Jelks to miss third straight season after not getting activated off NFI

So the plan is to rely on three undrafted free agents (Croston, Jelks, Tobin) to protect Brady's blind side.

 

[patfanken]

You may be right. If no one in the top 100 is capable of starting this year or next, then we will pass and live with Fleming-Cannon or Cannon-Waddle depending on who we re-sign, with Tobin and Croston as backups.

Tobin is a backup, who can be cut at any time. At very least, he might warm Garcia's seat on the bench, while Garcia in on the PUP or another list. Besides, Waddle and Fleming are both still free agents.

I think the Cannon-Waddle or Cannon/Flemming are the likely pairings on the OL for this year. Nothing early in the draft where we are picking are likely potential staters, and certainly later in the draft is even less likely.

I agree and have always said that Tobin is just an interesting reclamation project. His numbers would lead us to conclude that he is a better than average athlete at the position. That doesn't make him a good OT, but it does show why they took a shot. His experience alone would make him a better prospect than anyone we could draft at 31 in each round. The only thing surprising in the Tobin signing is why it was done in March. If he was picked up in May or June, there wouldn't be a 3-page thread 0n him. He'd just be another camp JAG that we hope will surprise us.

 

[Joey007]

Why has the narative suddenly turned into this signing meaning that we will let Fleming and Waddle walk?

 

[mgteich]

???

Both Ken and I believe that Cannon or Fleming will start at LT. I believe that we are also likely that we also draft an OL. Ken reasonably disagrees. However, no one is suggesting that one of the UDFA's is a starter. Croston is an OK 2018 game day backup, as he was sometimes in 2017.

The bottom line is that the gnashing of teeth is an over-reaction. Sure, we wanted to keep Solder. Now, the money will be used in other ways to help the team.

So the plan is to rely on three undrafted free agents (Croston, Jelks, Tobin) to protect Brady's blind side.

 

[patfanken]

the mystery man is Jelks

Patriots OT Andrew Jelks to miss third straight season after not getting activated off NFI

You must have missed the 2015 AFC Championship Game where Tom Brady was literally beatin' to a pulp.

www.pro-football-reference.com/boxscores/201601240den.htm

January 24th, 2016 - Von Miller 2.5 sacks

You must have missed the 2015 AFC Championship Game where Tom Brady was literally beatin' to a pulp.

www.pro-football-reference.com/boxscores/201601240den.htm

January 24th, 2016 - Von Miller 2.5 sacks

FIrst, you fail to mention that like a lot of guys on the OL that year, Cannon played that game hurt and likely wouldn't have been able to play if they ended up winning. Second, are you sure ALL of those sacks and pressures game against Cannon? (really I don't know the answer). And thirdly and most importantly, in 2016 and 17 when Scar was back, how did Miller do against Cannon. IIRC, I'd be surprised if he had a single sack and more than 5 pressures.

The point is that Cannon would at LEAST be an adequate replacement for Solder

 

[ATippett56]

???

Both Ken and I believe that Cannon or Fleming will start at LT. I believe that we are also likely that we also draft an OL. Ken reasonably disagrees. However, no one is suggesting that one of the UDFA's is a starter. Croston is an OK 2018 game day backup, as he was sometimes in 2017.

The bottom line is that the gnashing of teeth is an over-reaction. Sure, we wanted to keep Solder. Now, the money will be used in other ways to help the team.

Hello McFly,

Neither Fleming or Waddle have re-signed with the New England Patriots. Marcus Cannon is coming off ankle surgery. Garcia was diagnosed with blood clots in his lungs.

 

[ATippett56]

FIrst, you fail to mention that like a lot of guys on the OL that year, Cannon played that game hurt and likely wouldn't have been able to play if they ended up winning. Second, are you sure ALL of those sacks and pressures game against Cannon? (really I don't know the answer). And thirdly and most importantly, in 2016 and 17 when Scar was back, how did Miller do against Cannon. IIRC, I'd be surprised if he had a single sack and more than 5 pressures.

The point is that Cannon would at LEAST be an adequate replacement for Solder

That's pure speculation on your part.

 

[mgteich]

Hello McFly,

Neither Fleming or Waddle have re-signed with the New England Patriots. Marcus Cannon is coming off ankle surgery. Garcia was diagnosed with blood clots in his lungs.

Let's discuss this again when BOTH Fleming and Waddle are playing for someone else. The reality is that while the NFL season started this week, we don't have to play until August. An UDFA will NOT be starting at LT! It could be Cannon or someone else.

 

[captain stone]

I’m not saying that you are wrong but how do you know? Have you done extensive study of his game film and practice snaps? And remember, nobody like a liar.

Living in Hershey, I receive NBCSPhilly and had for 4 years watched Tobin play, had read what analysts, scouts & others have written about him, and had listened to what the same have said about him. And the verdict is this: The Man Is A Turnstile.

 

[captain stone]

Same question as my Tobin question to you. How do you know? From his rookie preseason snaps? He was always thought of an an athletic project. Perhaps he showed significant improvement during the season and has added some strength. I’m not saying that I’d be confident in his ability to start at LT, I’m merely hypothesizing that you are talking out of your arse.

I trust that BB and Scar anticipated Solder’s departure (knowing about Garcia’s ailment) and have a plan in place to adequately protect the TB12’s blindside.

But that's the problem with Croston: he's a project Without the athleticism, or at least without the core strength necessary at this level, same as Conor McDermott. He has difficulty vs speed, and Extreme difficulty vs power, and that makes even a switch to OG a non-starter. So for somebody who had a thoroughly mediocre career in college, he really doesn't have a future in the NFL.

And regarding IBWT, that died in the SB. I no longer trust him emptying my cats' litter boxes, never mind protecting the blindside of the man who single-handedly made him a multi-millionaire and a first-ballot HOFer.

 

[chris_in_sunnyvale]

Surely you can't be serious.

Ken is serious. And stop calling him Shirley*.

Regards,
Chris

* Ken, how could you miss this softball?

 

[captain stone]

Absolutely. Let me count the reasons.

1. Based on what I'm reading, The OL class is so weak this year, I'm not sure there would be anyone worth taking that early.

2. Anyone might we take from 31 down would be very unlikely to be ready to start THIS coming season. So the issue of replacing Solder would remain regardless of who we draft on the OL

3. Not that I would expect him to be ready to start in 2018, we already have Garcia in the wings filling the role of replacing Solder down the road. So if we draft ANOTHER so called LT replacement isn't that redundant. And what about Crosson and the other kid they supposedly like so much

4. Here are my short-term thoughts for next season, Cap. Marcus Cannon is an all-pro RT. I'm not sure that he would be as good on the left side, but I do know he wouldn't suck. Cannon, over the last few years, shut down Von Miller, among others. Given a full offseason to prepare, and Scar coaching him, do you really doubt he couldn't be an adequate replacement for Nate?

Waddle and Flemming proved to be adequate replacements for Cannon last season. Both of whom played better as the season went on. I'm not sure who they'll keep, but I'm sure at least one will remain and fill that role. The Swing guy would come from Tobin, Crosson, Garcia, the other kid they liked enough to keep whose name I forgot, or one of the 3 or 4 other guys they are likely to sign as FA's or draft (low if I had my way).

5. Now I can't see why they signed Tobin either. Like I said, he was a back up on the worst OL in the league. Not exactly the high point on anyone's resume. However, he does have the athletic numbers and size that they like. That alone makes him worth a shot to see if it was bad coaching that kept him down

BTW- why did you disagree with my OP. I guessing it was that I didn't want to draft an OLman early, but I'm not clear.

1. and 2.: Brian O'Neill & Kolton Miller would both be worthy of being selected at 43, and Miller even at 31. Remember, LT Matt Light started the entire 2001 season, IIRC.

3.: Boney Tony Garcia has dug himself a hole that is almost certainly too deep out of which to climb, and he was already in a bit of one to start (inferior competition, playing weight < 290). Croston just isn't good, although there may be some hope for Jelks if he can ever regain usefulness in his knees after almost 4! full years away from playing.

4.: I have grave doubts that Cannon will ever become a productive LT, especially when his injury-plagued 2017 season is considered. I have Absolutely no doubts, on the other hand, about Waddle or Fleming - they are NOT viable options at LT, at all. They are both Right-Side-Only guys. And my problems with Tobin are three-fold: He's not good, he's not worth One Penny more than the one-year, non-guaranteed, vet-minimum contract, and his signing could negatively effect the Pats' 2019 compensatory picks, and that should never, ever happen because of him.

BTW: yes I did Disagree with your post because of its suggestion not to draft a LT within the first 3 rounds. Bill swung and missed (what a shock) with Boney Tony; and now that he no longer has Solder in the building, he needs to step to the plate again and take another swing for the next starting LT.

 

[convertedpatsfan]

2017 Seahawks OL was awful. Very skeptical of anyone coming from that unit. Anyway, not claiming him to be the starting LT so we'll see what's in store for the guy.

Regards,
Chris

I wonder how much of that was on Cable and the coaching staff. Seahawks fans hated Cable for his inability to do much with the line the last few years despite a heavy investment in draft capital.

Garry Gilliam was the starting RT on the 2016 squad which was just as bad, and ended up becoming a key starter for the 49ers in 2017. They re-signed him to a 2-year deal and should start for them.

So we'll see. Waddle was another guy who couldn't cut it playing for a team with OL struggles in Detroit, but became serviceable here to the point that I'm hoping we bring him back. That's the magic of Scar.

 

[patfanken]

That's pure speculation on your part.m

No sh!t Sherlock, this is all speculation. I am just trying to make my guesses based on some empirical data and some common sense.