Building a Defense Front 7 For The Future

[mgteich]

DT/DL Wilfork, Love, Deaderick, Pryor, and Brace.
ILB Mayo, Spikes, Fletcher
OLB/LB Ninkovich, Cunningham
====================
Belichick has done a super job in signing a 2011 pass rush in Carter and Anderson. He will have the issue again next year since both were signed to one-year contracts. He has extended Ninkovich. Extensions to Carter and Anderson would put is in great shape going forward. We would still need an upgrade to Cunningham or an addition at at OLB.

 

[TriplecHamp]

I would say the draft but I heard BB doesn't like to do the whole passrush thing that way.

 

[patsfaninpa]

DT/DL Wilfork, Love, Deaderick, Pryor, and Brace.
ILB Mayo, Spikes, Fletcher
OLB/LB Ninkovich, Cunningham
====================
Belichick has done a super job in signing a 2011 pass rush in Carter and Anderson. He will have the issue again next year since both were signed to one-year contracts. He has extended Ninkovich. Extensions to Carter and Anderson would put is in great shape going forward. We would still need an upgrade to Cunningham or an addition at at OLB.

I'm not one who criticizes every Belichick draft pick that doesn't make it. But, our failure to address this in last springs draft was a major failure. two 1's, two 2's and two 3's. We end up with a t, cb, rb, qb and rb. Unbelievable. If we liked Solder so much. And, we did. We should have traded 1b and a 2nd to get Kerrigan and Solder. Or Aldon Smith and Solder. Or JJ Watt and Solder. Or, Robert Quinn and Solder. There were so many options and to sit it out was a big mistake. Oh yeah, we have those extra picks this year. Guess what. We still have the same holes to fill and this draft is not as deep at those positions.

Sorry for rant. I'm guessing we go back to the 3-4 because he's more comfortable with that. We're going to need two olb's. Cunningham ain't cutting it. And, a two gap de. Throw in a safety and that should be your first 2 rounds.

 

[mgteich]

In 2011, Belichick chose to meet the need at corner in the draft (Dowling) and to use free agency to meet the needs in the pass rush in free agency (Carter, Anderson).

Dowling's injury has us wishing that Belichick had chosen a pass rusher. If we had chosen a pass rusher, we would been asking why we didn't chose a defensive back, given the need and the injuries.
===========================
With regard to 2012, we still have the same need at DE/OLB. We also will have the same choices of method to meet the need: draft, free agency and/or trade.

I DISAGREE with your proposition that we should (or are likely)to use the first tow rounds only for OLB's and safeties. Wide receiver and center also loom as great needs for us in the 2012 draft.

I'm not one who criticizes every Belichick draft pick that doesn't make it. But, our failure to address this in last springs draft was a major failure. two 1's, two 2's and two 3's. We end up with a t, cb, rb, qb and rb. Unbelievable. If we liked Solder so much. And, we did. We should have traded 1b and a 2nd to get Kerrigan and Solder. Or Aldon Smith and Solder. Or JJ Watt and Solder. Or, Robert Quinn and Solder. There were so many options and to sit it out was a big mistake. Oh yeah, we have those extra picks this year. Guess what. We still have the same holes to fill and this draft is not as deep at those positions.

Sorry for rant. I'm guessing we go back to the 3-4 because he's more comfortable with that. We're going to need two olb's. Cunningham ain't cutting it. And, a two gap de. Throw in a safety and that should be your first 2 rounds.

 

[Aßßynormal]

Griffen, Landry and a couple of other safeties may be hitting free agency untagged. I'm not yet advocating we go that route but we could, if BB so chooses. We could trade for another DE such as J. Allen (wishful).

We need a deep WR and possibly another top end interior lineman (C or G), it's still to early to tell. My point is that we should continue the rebuilding using all methods at our disposal.

 

[Schmo]

I don't know that BB was 100% in favor of switching to a 4-3 at the time of last spring's draft, which would explain why he laid off of the front 7. Imagine if he took a 3-4 OLB project, only to realize that it would, "give the team a better chance to win," by switching to a 4-3. How much would everyone hate his draft then?

I could see a big change in draft strategy going forward if he sticks with the 4-3 and I hope he does. There are so many more front 7 players in college that more easily translate into that scheme and I believe that was always why he was reluctant in choosing 3-4 OLB's and DE's (unless we plan on landing another Seymour and Warren). 3-4 personel was always hard to come by, and now that a lot of teams have moved to it, a lot more possibilities open up for the 4-3. Thinking about the Giants and Bears D's over the years, the possibilities make me salivate.

 

[cstjohn17]

DT/DL Wilfork, Love, Deaderick, Pryor, and Brace.
ILB Mayo, Spikes, Fletcher
OLB/LB Ninkovich, Cunningham
====================
Belichick has done a super job in signing a 2011 pass rush in Carter and Anderson. He will have the issue again next year since both were signed to one-year contracts. He has extended Ninkovich. Extensions to Carter and Anderson would put is in great shape going forward. We would still need an upgrade to Cunningham or an addition at at OLB.

We all love hyperbole but "great"? really?

You are an easy grader. All of those players except for Mayo and Wilfork are basically JAGS. Essentially they will be right where they were at the end of last season, in a position to add playmakers to an otherwise pedestrian base of talent.

 

[patsfaninpa]

In 2011, Belichick chose to meet the need at corner in the draft (Dowling) and to use free agency to meet the needs in the pass rush in free agency (Carter, Anderson).

Dowling's injury has us wishing that Belichick had chosen a pass rusher. If we had chosen a pass rusher, we would been asking why we didn't chose a defensive back, given the need and the injuries.
===========================
With regard to 2012, we still have the same need at DE/OLB. We also will have the same choices of method to meet the need: draft, free agency and/or trade.

I DISAGREE with your proposition that we should (or are likely)to use the first tow rounds only for OLB's and safeties. Wide receiver and center also loom as great needs for us in the 2012 draft.

Still could have had Dowling with my proposal. 1b and 2b to move up for Kerrigan. And still drafted Dowling.

 

[PatsFanStnfrd]

Jabal Sheard DE and LB Brook Reed were available at top of second instead of Dowling. Either of these would have helped more than Dowling -- who also has the reputation of being injury-prone.

Of course, BB shops his own groceries. So, he'll have to live with his mistakes.

 

[supafly]

In 2011, Belichick chose to meet the need at corner in the draft (Dowling) and to use free agency to meet the needs in the pass rush in free agency (Carter, Anderson).

Dowling's injury has us wishing that Belichick had chosen a pass rusher. If we had chosen a pass rusher, we would been asking why we didn't chose a defensive back, given the need and the injuries.
===========================
With regard to 2012, we still have the same need at DE/OLB. We also will have the same choices of method to meet the need: draft, free agency and/or trade.

I DISAGREE with your proposition that we should (or are likely)to use the first tow rounds only for OLB's and safeties. Wide receiver and center also loom as great needs for us in the 2012 draft.

I have absolutely no problem whatsoever with his thinking that going experienced vet at DE would be better in a weird labor situation.

We all pretend like we KNOW for a fact the intricacies of the defensive scheme here...the fact is that we DON'T. By choosing to forego drafting a raw rookie DE that may/may not have contributed this yr in this system, he chose to address the needs via free agency with experienced guys who he felt would be better suited for the job.

And one more thing...just b/c he has a "pattern" of not choosing many DE/OLB conversion prospects, does not mean that he won't take a chance in the upcoming draft. There becomes a point when even a hardheaded and conservative guy like Belichick can decide that he is willing to take a chance and address the future. I think a lot of the ire felt on this forum was b/c he chose to address the present in that specific area, and not the future. But then again, we have no idea of all of the background factors that went into that choice.

------------

When you predict the areas of C and WR for the draft, I certainly agree with you. Those are clear cut areas of the team that we will be looking for towards the future, in my opinion.

S and CB could also be in that mix, or better yet---Belichick may feel that THOSE can be areas that he addresses via free agency next yr (at least one position is my opinion).

I do believe that DE/OLB will be taken care of in the draft, and he will shock most of the fans/mediots/posters who feel that it "could never happen."

It does seem like every year there are positions that we take care of via FA and positions that we take care of via the draft---I don't see why next yr would be any different; but I do agree that the positions of C and WR will be players that are brought in for the future via the draft (and DE/OLB).

 

[supafly]

Jabal Sheard DE and LB Brook Reed were available at top of second instead of Dowling. Either of these would have helped more than Dowling -- who also has the reputation of being injury-prone.

Of course, BB shops his own groceries. So, he'll have to live with his mistakes.

Well said.

The thing is, I don't see him taking either Sheard or Reed if he chose to look past many of the first round prosepcts.

In other words, I feel that the decision was made due to needing someone to step up this year, and all of those choices (and the first rders were 'better' than Sheard and Reed) would likely not have fit the bill to make the needed impact that we were looking for this year.

Maybe the lack of off-season learning had something to do with it? Maybe the immense need(s) on the front line had something to do with it, and he chose guys who were less likely to be gambles to make this years' team better?

It seems as though Belichick does a nifty combination of planning for the future at areas where he sees fit/needs, while choosing to focus on immediate areas of need via free agency/player cuts/acquisitions.

Next year's team will have some/many of the same needs, but that does not mean (at all) that he will choose to address them in the same fashion.

Either that, or he has

1. A clear cut protocol for what he looks for in a future DE/OLB prospect, and he just doesn't budge

2. A very high opinion of the complex nature of our defense, and their responsibilities at those positions

3. A likely combination of both

I do think that some forget that each year is different, and that he does the best he can with what our immediate and future needs are at those positions. Last year, we failed at some areas. Hence the changing of the guard at the secondary positions; which resulted in the removal of Meriweather, Sanders, Bodden, and the choosing of Dowling at CB.

I do agree that he may be kicking himself for taking such a gamble on Dowling, with his injury history. Then again, maybe he felt as though the proper training and pro-level rehabilitation could help to benefit him?

 

[supafly]

Griffen, Landry and a couple of other safeties may be hitting free agency untagged. I'm not yet advocating we go that route but we could, if BB so chooses. We could trade for another DE such as J. Allen (wishful).

We need a deep WR and possibly another top end interior lineman (C or G), it's still to early to tell. My point is that we should continue the rebuilding using all methods at our disposal.

Absolutely agree.

I think BB will continue to assess the immediate and future needs at the various positions, look for diamonds in the rough via the draft and free agency, and put out a quality product for the team and fans next year.

Just like he always does.

Let's remember that some pretty weird stuff/bounces happened in the years of 2006 (AFCCG--likely would have been a SB), 2007 (once in a lifetime helmet catch, the ref "begins" to blow his whistle in the grasp), 2008 (the first and ONLY 11-5 team out of 54 (fifty-four) effing teams NOT to make a playoff spot). But all were quality products. So was having the NFL's best record at 14-2 last year in 2010, although it was more of a likelihood that the team was just too green and inexperienced in some areas.

So that really only leaves 2009, and the loss to Welker in the last game of the season pretty much sealed our fate there, and could be put into the category above.

Those are some pretty strange occurrances, and the bottom line is that every single year we seem to receive more than a hopeful chance at remaining competitive. We may not always be as good as some one-hit wonders and flavors of the month, but there's always consistancy.

 

[patsfan-1982]

Mark Anderson was a player that has done notting since he's rookie season and Carter was a 32 year old pass rusher comeing off a 2.5 sack season... yes it was a great move by the front office to pick them up but lets face it the pats got lucky that they have got 14 sacks out of does two through 9 games cause with out them they have no pass rush at all,


as far as the Draft goes we look at Brooks Reed and say he has 5 sacks on the #1 defense in the NFL the pats should have Drafted him but thats really not with the pats need what they need is a good nickle back and thats what Ras-I Dowling was befor he got put on IR, now should they have trade it back up to get Brooks Reed and not Draft Shane Vereen a RB who cant get on the field ? maybe but it is what it is

 

[reflexblue]

DT/DL Wilfork, Love, Deaderick, Pryor, and Brace.
ILB Mayo, Spikes, Fletcher
OLB/LB Ninkovich, Cunningham
====================
Belichick has done a super job in signing a 2011 pass rush in Carter and Anderson. He will have the issue again next year since both were signed to one-year contracts. He has extended Ninkovich. Extensions to Carter and Anderson would put is in great shape going forward. We would still need an upgrade to Cunningham or an addition at at OLB.

Put the Kool Aid down and step away from the table. Carter and Anderson are close to retirement age.

 

[reflexblue]

In 2011, Belichick chose to meet the need at corner in the draft (Dowling) and to use free agency to meet the needs in the pass rush in free agency (Carter, Anderson).

Dowling's injury has us wishing that Belichick had chosen a pass rusher. If we had chosen a pass rusher, we would been asking why we didn't chose a defensive back, given the need and the injuries.
===========================
With regard to 2012, we still have the same need at DE/OLB. We also will have the same choices of method to meet the need: draft, free agency and/or trade.

I DISAGREE with your proposition that we should (or are likely)to use the first tow rounds only for OLB's and safeties. Wide receiver and center also loom as great needs for us in the 2012 draft.

Keep spinning it any way you want. We had an outstanding chance to get a good D-lineman And Solder. At draft time i don't remember many posters thinking the team needed another DB, most including me were expecting to see a D-lineman and maybe an OLB type like Kerrigan or Aldon Smith to be taken with the first two picks because the Pass rush had been neglected for years. But then again afterwards a lot of people said ...who needs a pass rush, its over rated. Well if you can put pressure on the QB you don't need great DB's.

 

[malenurse2010]

Mario Williams. Sign him. He's shown the ability to play in 4-3 and 3-4. He's elite and young as well. Break the bank for a stud. Its not like the Pats haven't made FA splashes before, too bad the last one was A. Thomas.

 

[SeymourTrophies]

Mario Williams. No one is laughing at that pick now. I can't imagine we'd fork out the kind of money he would demand though. I traded for him in Madden; he worked out, so there's no reason to think it won't pan out in real life.

 

[mgteich]

Yup. Many posters believe that that we needed to draft a DE/OLB above everything else, since apparently this rookie would have secured our pass rush and with an improved pass rush, we wouldn't need an improvement in the secondary.

Curiously, Belichick looked at Bodden, Wilhite and Butler and thought that we needed help at corner for 2011 and 2012.
=================

THE 2011 DRAFT

1) Patriots wanted Solder with 17 instead of what was available at DE. BTW, Quinn and Kerrigan were gone. Besides, Belichick would rather have Solder.

2) Belichick had 28 and 33. There was no DE/OLB he wanted enough to trade both picks for, and he didn't want Brooks Reid instead of a corner. Belichick wanted a corner. He got his choice of corners available at 28: Dowling. Belichick used the other pick to trade for a 2012 #1 and the #56 which become Belichick's (and the board's) choice of RB at the time: Vareen.

BOTTOM LINE
Belichick could have traded both picks for a pass-rusher like Kerrigan or Quinn. He chose to use free agency instead to get Carter and Anderson (a 1-year fix), and to draft Dowling and Vareen and have an additional #1 next year.

Apparently Belichick saw the need at corner and running back that posters did not see, and still traded forward as he does every year. Trading forward in 2010 allowed us to draft Solder this year. We'll see what happens next year.

A FINAL NOTE
I agree with another poster that Belichick wan't committed to the switch to the 4-3 at the time of the draft. Had Ty Warren come back at 100% and Deaderick had come back to begin the season, we might still be in the base 3-4.

Keep spinning it any way you want. We had an outstanding chance to get a good D-lineman And Solder. At draft time i don't remember many posters thinking the team needed another DB, most including me were expecting to see a D-lineman and maybe an OLB type like Kerrigan or Aldon Smith to be taken with the first two picks because the Pass rush had been neglected for years. But then again afterwards a lot of people said ...who needs a pass rush, its over rated. Well if you can put pressure on the QB you don't need great DB's.

 

[jays52]

Aldon Smith and JJ Watt are both playing out of their heads this season and were easily within striking range.

That said, Solder and Dowling look to be pretty good picks so I'm fairly happy.

I think the big question is if the Patriots choose to stay with 43 personnel. I think they went that way this season as a function of both existing roster talent and for greater sub personnel. Should they elect to stay 43 in the coming years, I think that simplifies the end search. It also places demand on finding a pure 3-technique. I think it's going to be a wait and see thing for the draft but it's going to be a heck of a lot of fun having to evaluate 34 and 43 personnel this year!

 

[Ring 6]

Aldon Smith and JJ Watt are both playing out of their heads this season and were easily within striking range.

That said, Solder and Dowling look to be pretty good picks so I'm fairly happy.

I think the big question is if the Patriots choose to stay with 43 personnel. I think they went that way this season as a function of both existing roster talent and for greater sub personnel. Should they elect to stay 43 in the coming years, I think that simplifies the end search. It also places demand on finding a pure 3-technique. I think it's going to be a wait and see thing for the draft but it's going to be a heck of a lot of fun having to evaluate 34 and 43 personnel this year!

Doesn't a lot of it depend on who is in Andre Carters position?
Really the way we are playing the 43 it isn't significantly different that playing our 34 with a bit of an alignment shift, but having one OLB designated as a full time pass rusher, is it?