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Broncos/Patriots matchup

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FWIW, I do believe that Tebow is a good, albeit fundamentally limited and one-dimensional (at this stage in his career) QB. I also believe that he'll have to submit a better performance than he did against the Steelers to beat the Pats, and I don't think that that's likely to happen.

Subtract Keisel, Woodley, Hampton and Clark from the Steelers defense and you have... a pretty bad D. Meanwhile, the Steelers' offense, with Ben hobbled as he was, isn't anywhere near as good as the Patriots'. Not to mention home/road, short week, etc. Seems to me like the Broncos may very well have played their best game, and that's what it took to beat (in overtime) a team that isn't anywhere near as good as the Pats currently are. This being the 2011 Broncos and all, who knows what will happen on Sunday, but I feel pretty good about the Pats' chances.
 
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FWIW, I do believe that Tebow is a good, albeit fundamentally limited and one-dimensional (at this stage in his career) QB. I also believe that he'll have to submit a better performance than he did against the Steelers to beat the Pats, and I don't think that that's likely to happen.

Subtract Keisel, Woodley, Hampton and Clark from the Steelers defense and you have... a pretty bad D. Meanwhile, the Steelers' offense, with Ben hobbled as he was, isn't anywhere near as good as the Patriots'. Not to mention home/road, short week, etc.
The Pittsburgh Steelers defensive game plan is as much to fault as are the injuries/medical conditions.
 
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Yes it was a typo in the orginal post it should have read Man 0, not just man.

I think I have said all I can and want to on this subject anyhow.

Do you know where to find this elusive offensive efficiency stat?

I don't know where he's getting the one he's using. F.O. has a version, but I don't think that's the one in use here.
 
McCourty has been lost all season and is not a starting free safety in the NFL.

The New England Patriots need to seriously spend money in unrestricted free agency prior to the 2012 NFL Draft to upgrade the defensive secondary.

You should probably wait for more games before before you pass your judgement of McCourty as an NFL free safety.

We have no idea whether he'll be starting FS this weekend (although it's very likely), however, his skill-set translates well into playing FS effectively.
 
Deus, I gotta ask. Are you related to Tim Tebow?

Not related

Never met him

Not a Gators Fan

Not a Broncos fan

Don't care about his religion when it comes to analyzing his game



I Just hate the prejudices involved in bagging on the guy. It's pathetic to see, especially when one can question him legitimately without the "not an NFL QB, just a gimmick" crap. He's already destroyed the

Won't get drafted as a QB
Won't get drafted high
Never make it on a roster as a QB
Never play a game as a Qb
Never win a game as a QB
Never win consistently as a QB
Never make the playoffs as a QB
Never win a playoff game as a QB

stuff that the detractors were firing off. I figure the guy's earned some breathing room and honest evaluation from people at this point.
 
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McCourty has been lost all season and is not a starting free safety in the NFL.

The New England Patriots need to seriously spend money in unrestricted free agency prior to the 2012 NFL Draft to upgrade the defensive secondary.

Patriots need to improve their running threat too. I think they are squeezing just about every ounce of juice out of this team's passing offense that they can and without adding another guy like Moss back in 2007, it's going to be a risky move to continue another year of going with the same style offense. When you have teams that are copying what the Patriots and Colts have done for years as far as offense like Green Bay and the Saints, and with new passing powerhouses like Carolina coming into the mix but who are also adding a serious threat on the ground in addition to that you can't help but think the Pats may becoming a bit one dimensional. With guys like Luck and RGIII coming out of college too, it's time for the Pats to upgrade.

Doesn't mean they should pass less or move more towards college style offenses, but they need to have that option to run the ball at will whenever they need to. Right now, I think they're operating without a safety net. The running needs to become a more serious threat not just for short yardage, but long downfield runs.

Maybe they're willing to take Deangelo Williams's contract off of Carolina's hands? Win/win if you ask me. He's got 2-3 good years left in him, has been very well protected and not banged up, and waiting to be used as the full time running back he really is. He's wasting away on that bench in Carolina splitting carries with Newton, Stewart and a full back. Even Steve Smith. A running back very much capable of 1300+ yards a year who can bounce it outside in a more traditional style offense for 8-15 yards a pop as well as break away 60 yards down field for a TD. The original NFL-style "option play".

Even with him sharing his carries he can still average 5.4 yards per carry and 836 yards whereas which compared to BenJarvus Green-Ellis's 3.6 yards per carry and 664 yards would be no small improvement. If Panthers are smart they'll unload him this off season to get back some salary cap room. If Patriots are smart and can afford him they'll pick him up.
 
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Won't get drafted as a QB
Won't get drafted high

Never make it on a roster as a QB
Never play a game as a Qb
Never win a game as a QB
Never win consistently as a QB
Never make the playoffs as a QB
Never win a playoff game as a QB

The three bolded sentiments are the ones that I've seen actually expressed before. The rest... not so much. Once the Broncos drafted him in the first round, I doubt that anyone was arguing that he would "never make it on a roster as a QB".
 
You should probably wait for more games before before you pass your judgement of McCourty as an NFL free safety.
I'm not holding my breath.

We have no idea whether he'll be starting FS this weekend (although it's very likely), however, his skill-set translates well into playing FS effectively.
The New England Patriots weaken two defensive positions by playing McCourty at free safety.
 
The three bolded sentiments are the ones that I've seen actually expressed before. The rest... not so much. Once the Broncos drafted him in the first round, I doubt that anyone was arguing that he would "never make it on a roster as a QB".

I saw and/or heard, every one of them, and most of them quite frequently. You can add "Never win a Super Bowl" and "Never be an elite Qb" and "Never win more than one Super Bowl" to the list. The "Never win more than one Super Bowl" was especially humorous to me, because the person actually thought that was some kind of disqualifier

But surely you heard the ones about the playoffs and winning a game...? I was hearing/reading them all the time.
 
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Patriots need to improve their running threat too. I think they are squeezing just about every ounce of juice out of this team's passing offense that they can and without adding another guy like Moss back in 2007, it's going to be a risky move to continue another year of going with the same style offense. When you have teams that are copying what the Patriots and Colts have done for years as far as offense like Green Bay and the Saints, and with new passing powerhouses like Carolina coming into the mix but who are also adding a serious threat on the ground in addition to that you can't help but think the Pats may becoming a bit one dimensional. With guys like Luck and RGIII coming out of college too, it's time for the Pats to upgrade.

Doesn't mean they should pass less or move more towards college style offenses, but they need to have that option to run the ball at will whenever they need to. Right now, I think they're operating without a safety net. The running needs to become a more serious threat not just for short yardage, but long downfield runs.

Maybe they're willing to take Deangelo Williams's contract off of Carolina's hands? Win/win if you ask me. He's got 2-3 good years left in him, has been very well protected and not banged up, and waiting to be used as the full time running back he really is. He's wasting away on that bench in Carolina splitting carries with Newton, Stewart and a full back. Even Steve Smith. A running back very much capable of 1300+ yards a year who can bounce it outside in a more traditional style offense for 8-15 yards a pop as well as break away 60 yards down field for a TD. The original NFL-style "option play".

Even with him sharing his carries he can still average 5.4 yards per carry and 836 yards whereas which compared to BenJarvus Green-Ellis's 3.6 yards per carry and 664 yards would be no small improvement. If Panthers are smart they'll unload him this off season to get back some salary cap room. If Patriots are smart and can afford him they'll pick him up.
The New England Patriots drafted two running backs in the second and third round of the 2011 NFL Entry draft. Let's not throw out the baby with the bath water.

With regard to the unrestricted free agent market, the New England Patriots top priority is to re-sign Wes Welker. Second, wide receiver Brandon Lloyd would be a better investment for the New England Patriots offense for the 2012 NFL Season than either Deangelo Williams or Chad Ochostinko. Third, the New England Patriots need to spend money in the defensive secondary since the recent New England Patriots drafts have yielded more busts (Wheatley, Wilhite, Butler, Meriweather) than solid starters (Chung, McCourty??).
 
I think denver is a team that can't be taken lightly and i think people forget ow they felt in the 1st quarter in the game this year. Untill they comitted their 3 turnovers they were moving the ball at will against the pats. The denver D is in my opinion not a top 5 D but on it's day has some very good pass rushers and one of if not the best CB in the game.

Do i back my team... of coarse. But with a team as dangerous and unorthadox as denver you you just never know what you will get.
 
looking forward to playing you guys for the 2nd time..I was at the game at mile high for the first matchup. was still a good game to watch even tho we lost. Hope whatever team goes on win or loss, goes injury free.
 
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The thing that blew it for Pitt was the playcalling on defense. 9 in the box when they've shown their key effectiveness was the deep ball? Really? That play fake worked every time, no matter how well they ran the ball. The overpursuit was absurd.

The real issue with the Broncos-Pats matchup is the Broncos D vs. the Pats O. We can safely assume Denver will score in the high teens to low twenties. BB's gameplan will not allow the deep ball nearly as much as LeBeau's did, and I don't see Tebow picking us apart with his passing in the red zone. The question is how many will Tom put up. Tom had no trouble in mile high, so unless the momentum monster engulfs us, we're looking at scoring 30+ points against them. Their defense has shown the ability to swamp the bad offenses, but they haven't been able to keep the better offenses in check, with the exception, I suppose, of Rivers in their 2nd matchup of the season.
 
If we score a TD or make a FG early, look out for something like this after the muskets fire:

'Mile High Halo' Forms Over Tim Tebow And Mile High Stadium During Broncos Steelers Game (PHOTOS)
Let's all try to be calm and rational about this. In addition to Tim Tebow throwing 316 yards in the Broncos' upset over the Steelers (Tebow painted Bible verse John 3:16 under his eyes in college) and fans replacing "Tebow" with "Jesus" on their jerseys, apparently a halo-like smoke ring formed over Mile High yesterday after the Broncos scored their first field goal.

Mark Neuman-Lee, an attendee of the Steelers/Broncos game and photographer of the "Mile High Halo," tells HuffPost he'd never seen the ring prior to yesterday's NFL upset. Two season pass ticket-holders also told HuffPost the halo seems to be an anomaly.
At the time of publication, a request for comment from the Broncos was not immediately returned.

If there is a halo over Gillette Saturday night I don't like our chances.
 
How would you guys say the atmosphere among the boards here compares to last year's before the Jets game? More confident? Less? How do you feel?

Just joined the forum, but have been a Pats fan for a while. I don't know why, because logic says otherwise, but I find myself more nervous for this game than the Jets (even though we were burned). I can't remember the spread last year, but obviously Denver is considered an inferior opponent to last years Jets, and I thought before the playoffs that Denver would be our easiest matchup. But now I find myself a bit more nervous than maybe I should be. Maybe it's just that Denver is so unorthodox?

And I mean, this is already shaping up to be a hollywood movie for Tebow, I just don't know, even though logic is not on that side, it feels as if we may be the next to get burned.
 
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Interesting read comparing Tebow and his exploits against the Steelers and the Bronco's regular season game with the Patriots:

Film Breakdown: Tebow's Tendencies - Pats Pulpit

That's a great article. What I noticed about Denver then, and against the Steelers, is that when they line up, they set up a very tight line up front. It's a very narrow and compact leaving very little room for anyone to get through in the middle, but very tight pocket around Tebow. It doesn't give Tebow a lot of room to move inside the pocket, but it plays into his ability to roll out. He has a tendency to spin around and roll out making defenders miss when his passing options are not there. At that point he can either take off for a couple of yards or buy himself a couple of more seconds for a second look downfield and a pass. You gotta either force him to stay in the pocket, or if he rolls out, he's looking to pass down the side-line.

The way they got to him in the first game was the Pat's pass defense managed to freeze Tebow long enough in the pocket to where he didn't immediately roll out, but rather stayed put and they attacked the edges. I don't know if they were using man or cover, but they created the impression for Tim that he would have a passing option just long enough to delay his roll out, and that gave enough time for someone to sneak in and get to him. The most effective one being from his blindside forcing the fumble. They need to do that again.

I think both of these teams have their weaknesses but it's going to come down to execution and Broncos simply have a lot more of them.

Denver brings A game - Pats bring A game = close game, Pats will still win.
Denver Brings A game - Pats bring B game = close game, can go either way.

Anything less than an A game for the Broncos, they will lose, so their margin of error is incredibly narrow. If they fail to score TD's and settle for 3 like they did against Pittsburg, they will get beat, even if they don't turn over the ball. Pats can afford to make a couple of more mistakes, but I'd rather not take that chance and Tom can't afford an interception unless it's past mid-field on a long bomb on third down.

If Tebow plays as good as he did against the Steelers, he won't be the reason the Broncos lose. They have a lot of other areas that need improvement or need to be masked: special teams D, lack of consistent receiving threat, fumble prone players, and in all honesty, a weaker defense that gets worn out and abused late in the game when the offense stalls. There are other areas that can much more easily be exploited compared to Tebow.

But the Pats are fully capable of beating this team so the only type of questions that remain to be answered aren't so much technical as they are motivational: can they do it again this weekend? Are they as hungry as they were during the first game? I haven't seen Tom be that hungry and excited in a long time as I saw him in the first Denver game. Maybe Tebow, and all the Tebowmania, is actually a blessing in disguise for the Pats too. It brought out the competitive spirit in Brady in a big way and that fired up the entire team as well as if waking up the sleeping giant. Well I think they are awake now. I think Denver's riding high, but Tebow's also very level headed so I see him being on top of his game as well.

I look forward to a great game and more credit should be given to Denver. This isn't a cakewalk for the Patriots, win or lose. Everybody tries to bring their A game against the Pats. Think Miami. Pats won that game because nobody, not the fans or the team underestimated them and expected a hard fought game and this should be approached the same way. Denver may just end up being the third-or dare I say-second toughest team in the AFC this year when it's all said and done. Yeah, I think, right now, with the way they played against Pittsburgh, they are showing a lot more tenacity and will than Baltimore has all year. They want it. Tebow may be all goody-goody in his interviews, but if you watch him on that field, his expressions, his body language, this kid wants it bad and he's all business when it's his time to play. A wolf in sheep's clothing. Don't feel bad when knocking his lights out because they clearly have no problem doing it to Tom. Time for the Pats D to get a bit of revenge with a good clean hit and see if he can get back up and brush it off as good as Tom
 
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One thing to consider (that the national media is too lazy to report on) is the injury report. Consider the differences from the last time we saw the Broncos a month ago (in order of importance IMO):

1) Kuper Out/Hochstein In - The Broncos run much more effectively to the right side and Kuper was a large part of that. Our bud Hochstein is a solid backup but he is definitely a drop-off in all areas (including protecting the rookie RT Franklin). Belichick should know how to attack Russ and limit the huge rushing gains that filled the 1st quarter in the last meeting.

2) Spikes Healthy - And who better to plug those gaps on the offensive right side than Spikes. I like Fletcher and White as much as the next guy but they are the wrong guys in the middle against the Broncos. A healthy and fresh Spikes could be huge in helping to limit the Broncos ability to get big chunks of yards. Also frees up Mayo to keep an eye on Tebow, run and tackle...instead of pealing guards and fullbacks off his facemask.

3) Bronco Safeties - Dawkins doesn't appear to be healthy yet, Brouton (leading tackler against the Steelers) is dinged up and Rahim Moore (started against the Pats last month) apparently isn't the answer since he didn't play against the Steelers. Carter, who got the pick against Roethlisberger, has started for a while but he is a rookie. Heading into a game against Gronk and a 100% healthy Hernandez is not the time to have questions at safety.

4) Decker Out - Thomas has been the focus for several weeks but the Decker injury hurts. He is the Bess type of receiver that typically drives the Pats nuts. Not having to account for Decker is a bonus that should help out the Pats DBs.

5) Chung Healthy - Not that I don't like Slater as a safety......OK, I don't like Slater as a safety. Having Chung back provides the stability in the Pats secondary that the Steelers were lacking on Sunday.

Also need to keep an eye on Vollmer (practiced yesterday) and Dumervil (didn't). Branch missed the Bronco game last month (not a big deal for that game) but should be available Saturday. I haven't heard the players on/off the field Saturday being a major consideration (as stupid as that sounds), it should play a huge part in how the game turns out.
 
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