Breer: Welker at OTAs, in uniform, brace on

[pats1]

Ya, but he said this:

I think he means from where his timetable was yesterday.

I don't think he means that something happened between his last detail tweet and that one, but he can't say. I think he just is summing up all of his practice tweets to date.

 

[Rob0729]

Whatever Moss does, it's hard to see him doing it in blue and red past 2010. It's also hard to see him doing it up to the same level he did in September/October 2007 (he hasn't since then).

We saw in the end of last season teams start to pay less attention to Moss (remember the Panthers' comments?). Whether it was because of a bad back or not, it's still an issue heading into this season.

I honestly think the Pats have milked what they could out of Moss in the past three seasons, including a very equitable deal they reached in March 2008. But it may be time to see what salvage value you can get out of him, and move on, because it's doubtful he's still around past this season.

The similarity to the Seymour situation is definitely there. In fact, the Pats' WR situation as of today looks better than the DL situation last September 5. In the long term interest of the football team, moving Moss may be best.

I agree that I don't expect to see Moss back after this season, but I don't see Welker returning as a sign of him being traded. Welker doesn't replace Moss. Either Tate or Price would have to step up to take Moss' place to make a trade of Moss remotely possible.

 

[Rob0729]

I think he means from where his timetable was yesterday.

I don't think he means that something happened between his last detail tweet and that one, but he can't say. I think he just is summing up all of his practice tweets to date.

Yeah, that was my take. But it still could be a significant shift. I think Breer has written that he expected Welker to be back in November. He could now think he could be ready for training camp for all we know.

 

[RussFrancis]

I agree that this Welker news has no impact on whatever happens with Moss. No way are we trading him away, in my humble opinion. I think worst case scenario, we'd handle his situation similarly to Asante Samuel's. If he isnt extended or re-signed, he'll either be franchised or he'll simply walk.

 

[pats1]

I agree that I don't expect to see Moss back after this season, but I don't see Welker returning as a sign of him being traded. Welker doesn't replace Moss. Either Tate or Price would have to step up to take Moss' place to make a trade of Moss remotely possible.

Obviously it's a downgrade, but I don't think it's that simple. The Pats don't very often just have Moss and Welker on the field. Instead of Moss, Welker, and say Holt on the field, you'd have Welker, Edelman, and Holt on the field, or Welker, Edelman, Tate, or Welker, Holt, Price, etc. Trading Moss would go along with a new offensive philosophy which would harken back to the more balanced attacks of the Super Bowl era. Instead of playing Moss as a decoy or trying to force deep passes, you'd have three or four receivers on the field, not even including Gronkowski or Hernandez, one of whom is bound to be open, and all of whom are capable of catching a pass when they are open. So in other words, you don't necessarily need to have that #1 superstar WR on the field - you have #3, #4 options who can actually catch (sorry Aiken, sorry Galloway) and can have just as effective an offense that way (especially on 3rd downs/red zone when the defense can't focus on one guy, a HUGE problem for the Pats in 2009), provided you have some running game/play action that can set up some semblance of a deep threat. That leaves a Superstar WR like Moss expendable, and thus a tradeable asset that can help you in other areas of the team which aren't as set.

 

[Deus Irae]

Belichickfan is probably going to be loving this news. He's been on the "week 1" bandwagon, and this will certainly make him feel better about his hope/semi-prediction.

 

[pats1]

I agree that this Welker news has no impact on whatever happens with Moss. No way are we trading him away, in my humble opinion. I think worst case scenario, we'd handle his situation similarly to Asante Samuel's. If he isnt extended or re-signed, he'll either be franchised or he'll simply walk.

Asante Samuel was a 26-year old whose best days were ahead of him. Randy Moss will be a 33-year old whose best days are behind him. Very different scenarios. Seymour is a much better comparison; there was no way the Patriots would trade Asante if they had even the slightest hope of re-signing him.

 

[JackBauer]

It really seems as though the future of Moss, Maroney, Light, and/or Kaczur may be up the air with this team.

I can see the other players, but Maroney isn't going anywhere with the dearth of talent behind him at RB.

 

[Rob0729]

Obviously it's a downgrade, but I don't think it's that simple. The Pats don't very often just have Moss and Welker on the field. Instead of Moss, Welker, and say Holt on the field, you'd have Welker, Edelman, and Holt on the field, or Welker, Edelman, Tate, or Welker, Holt, Price, etc. Trading Moss would go along with a new offensive philosophy which would harken back to the more balanced attacks of the Super Bowl era. Instead of playing Moss as a decoy or trying to force deep passes, you'd have three or four receivers on the field, not even including Gronkowski or Hernandez, one of whom is bound to be open, and all of whom are capable of catching a pass when they are open. So in other words, you don't necessarily need to have that #1 superstar WR on the field - you have #3, #4 options who can actually catch (sorry Aiken, sorry Galloway) and can have just as effective an offense that way, provided you have some running game/play action that can set up some semblance of a deep threat. That leaves a Superstar WR like Moss expendable, and thus a tradeable asset that can help you in other areas of the team which aren't as set.

You need a deep threat on the field and right now other than Moss, we don't know if the Pats have one. If you don't have a WR you think can get at least 30 yards down the field, you aren't going to keep defenses honest and they will never keep their safties deep which will make the short passing game even harder.

I don't know if the Pats need Moss to be a superstar stud #1 WR, but as of right now, they certainly need his ability to stretch the field and at least act as a decoy. We don't know if either Tate or Price have the big play ability to keep defenses honest. Until they do, the Pats need Moss.

Before the offseason started, I was one person who thought Moss' spot wasn't guaranteed. But I was assuming that if they let him go, they would find his replacement in free agency. Since they didn't, I expect them to allow him to finish out his contract and look elsewhere next year.

 

[VrabelMayeWin]

Belichickfan is probably going to be loving this news. He's been on the "week 1" bandwagon, and this will certainly make him feel better about his hope/semi-prediction.

I still think that Welker will avoid the PUP, barring a setback of course. Whether they choose to hold him out for 4 games then have the bye then bring him back for Week 6 I have no idea because I could see them doing that to reduce overall wear and tear on him, allowing him to get more comfortable with the new knee but still being able to practice with the team. PUP = no practice, I don't see that. If Week 1 were the SB I would be supremely confident he'd play. As it's only Week 1 I can see him not playing but I think he'd be able to if needed. If that line I'm walking makes any sense.

Regarding trading Moss it depends what was offered. He's still a stud and I don't see him being traded for anything less than a 2012 #1. If that were offered it would be tough to turn down.

 

[pats1]

I can see the other players, but Maroney isn't going anywhere with the dearth of talent behind him at RB.

I would think it would go along with the acquisition of another RB. The Patriots have sometimes swung trades (T. Washington, Seymour, Burgess, D. Thomas, M. Matthews, D. Gabriel, A. Davis, D. Wesley), or made veteran pickups (Cox, Phifer, Jordan, O'Neal) to re-shape positions during camp/preseason.

 

[JSn]

Actually, it makes the roster game tricky, but not pupping Wes and holding him out is brilliant because it makes opponents unsure what to plan for.

 

[JackBauer]

I would think it would go along with the acquisition of another RB. The Patriots have sometimes swung multiple trades or made veteran pickups (Cox, Washington, Phifer, Jordan) to re-shape positions during camp/preseason.

Eh. I don't really see it. I could see one of the other backs being replaced/upgraded with a younger player, but with Maroney you'd be selling low and I think his value as a player to the Patriots next season is greater than any compensation they'd receive from dealing him.

 

[pats1]

Eh. I don't really see it. I could see one of the other backs being replaced/upgraded with a younger player, but with Maroney you'd be selling low and I think his value as a player to the Patriots next season is greater than any compensation they'd receive from dealing him.

You may be right.

 

[BradyManny]

Twitter / Albert Breer: Welker in uniform at ota's ...

Unreal. Really amazing. Props to Wes. You don't get ready that fast without a lot of hard work.

 

[BradyManny]

Eh. I don't really see it. I could see one of the other backs being replaced/upgraded with a younger player, but with Maroney you'd be selling low and I think his value as a player to the Patriots next season is greater than any compensation they'd receive from dealing him.

In spite of his flaws and the fact that he has not lived up to our expectations - Maroney is still our best RB on the roster.

To be honest, I don't see why everyone views this as Maroney's last season as a Patriot. He's done everything they've asked him to. He's just not the premier RB we thought he might become. Barring a breakout season, he isn't going to attract a ton of attention on the FA market, I can see us bringing him back for something reasonable to continue to be a complementary back of some kind.

That said, he really needs to learn pass protection and improve his pass catching. That's where he can really increase his value to us. He's still a nightmare in the open field.

 

[pats1]

I still think that Welker will avoid the PUP, barring a setback of course. Whether they choose to hold him out for 4 games then have the bye then bring him back for Week 6 I have no idea because I could see them doing that to reduce overall wear and tear on him, allowing him to get more comfortable with the new knee but still being able to practice with the team. PUP = no practice, I don't see that. If Week 1 were the SB I would be supremely confident he'd play. As it's only Week 1 I can see him not playing but I think he'd be able to if needed. If that line I'm walking makes any sense.

Regarding trading Moss it depends what was offered. He's still a stud and I don't see him being traded for anything less than a 2012 #1. If that were offered it would be tough to turn down.

Obviously a 2011 #2 would be a tough one to turn down too. Teams who do not have playoff hopes in 2010 may be less willing to offer a high pick like that for a one-year rental who might quit if the team has no hope. But hey, that's what the Raiders did; they banked on Seymour performing in a contract year and now are squeezing a second contract year out of him with the tag. Problem is, teams won't have the benefit of an uncapped year in 2011 to apply the tag to Moss - that includes the Patriots if they decide to keep him.

 

[pats1]

In spite of his flaws and the fact that he has not lived up to our expectations - Maroney is still our best RB on the roster.

To be honest, I don't see why everyone views this as Maroney's last season as a Patriot. He's done everything they've asked him to. He's just not the premier RB we thought he might become. Barring a breakout season, he isn't going to attract a ton of attention on the FA market, I can see us bringing him back for something reasonable to continue to be a complementary back of some kind.

That said, he really needs to learn pass protection and improve his pass catching. That's where he can really increase his value to us. He's still a nightmare in the open field.

The same can be said for Watson. Problem is, when you have a high pick like that, he will often just want to walk away from the team where he is underperforming, and try for a new start somewhere else where he can attempt to play up to his potential. His old team will probably have similar feelings and will just walk away and find a new project in the draft - like Gronkowski.

If he was a mid-round pick playnig at an average level, both sides would probably just continue on, since neither had higher expectations.

 

[BradyManny]

Price, Tate, Welker, and Edelman aren't going to get cut. Belichick isn't going to cut Holt or Patten if they can provide a veteran presence, run precise routes, and show solid hands. Who does that leave? A 33-year old wide receiver who is in the final year of his contract, has arguably shown diminishing skills and/or effort over the past three seasons, has publicly stated his future is in doubt with the team, and would definitely have some trade value on the open market.

He's still a game changer who dictates defense. Receivers like that are hard to come by.

Me, I'd rather just extend Moss for a similar contract as we just gave him. Give him 2 or 3 more years at 9 million. He's already lost a step and he still gets double teamed as much as anybody in the league. His height, hands and intelligence is what makes him good now, and that's not going to disappear over night.

 

[BradyManny]

The same can be said for Watson. Problem is, when you have a high pick like that, he will often just want to walk away from the team where he is underperforming, and try for a new start somewhere else where he can attempt to play up to his potential. His old team will probably have similar feelings and will just walk away and find a new project in the draft - like Gronkowski.

Very true.