Breaking: Gronk to Retire

[crawhammer]

You really think they’d win that game without Gronk?

Brady was 14-16 for 123 and 2 TDs in that 4th quarter. The biggest play was probably the 3rd-14 completion to Edelman for 21 yards when he got lit up by Chancellor.

Here's a breakdown of those completions:

Vereen = 5 rec, 2 first downs
Edelman = 4 rec, 2 first downs, 1 TD
Gronk = 2 rec, 2 first downs
LaFell = 2 rec, 1 first down
Amendola = 1 rec, 1 TD

Brady pretty much spread it around and had important completions to 5 different receivers. Gronk is probably the hardest receiver to replicate with another player but in this particular game Edelman had the biggest receptions and ultimately it was an exceptional example of ball distribution by the quarterback.

You still aren’t answering the question. If Gronk wasn’t drafted, how long does Brady stay?

Looking back at that draft, Jimmy Graham went a round later than Gronk. Gronk had the better career but he also had Brady his entire career. Graham had some highly productive seasons and his career stats are fairly similar to Gronk's. Had Brady had Graham and Hernandez as opposed to Gronk and Hernandez I think it's possible a lot doesn't change for Brady. Meaning Brady with Graham probably could have stuck around as long as he did in New England. Look, Bill was talking up Brady's demise in 2014. Bill was wrong then, just like he was wrong in 2020, and will be further proven wrong in 2022. Sorry, facts are facts.

 

[bresna]

Some people are live vicariously through these athletes and take it to heart.

Draymond Green is a jerk and he would not be doing any such thing if they lost.

 

[FreeTedWilliams]

So far Gronk has thanked the Bucs and Arizona State (and Julian Edelman) for their tributes....nothing on the Patriots yet.

He went to Arizona, he might have thanked Arizona State for producing Harry!

 

[Sam Bam Cunningham]

... because what really matters is the moods of the former players ...

What a bad take ...

Matters to me that all time great players do not come across as hating the organization representing the region we come from or live in

 

[Sam Bam Cunningham]

That didn't happen.

Check out his twitter post

 

[TheRainMaker]

Get real.

People here claiming Gronk is the GOAT because of blocking is laughable.

Homerism on roids is all it is.

Tony Gonzalez was so good, it changed what teams would look for in a TE. Nobody had success until the Chargers found Antonio Gates in 2003 who this board is forgetting about. That guy was a really f***ing good TE.

But Gronk was so dominant during his time, it forced teams to resort to dirty tactics to slow him down like teams did with Shaq in basketball. How many times did we see defenders not even waste their time tackling him straight up, but going straight for the knees instead?

 

[SHOWTIME15]

From Gronk's GF..."can't wait to cheer you on in all that you do next"...

 

[Triumph]

The TB12 plan aint what it used to be.

 

[BaconGrundleCandy]

You know I respect your opinion a lot Bacon but I have to ask, are you really putting Kittle, Kelce, and Sharpe ahead of Tony G? That’s some strait up disrespect to the guy that started the whole TEs can catch the ball more then just as a trick play movement. Personally I have Tony G as my #1 TE if we are basing it on the career in its entirety. Same way I have Rice as my #1 WR. Both not as splashy or able to take over a game the way Gronk or Moss could but just insanely consistent for 15-20 years. That’s impressive too. Now if we are talking for one game? You bet I’m taking Moss and Gronk as they are more likely to go 6 for 150 and 2 TDs. Over a career though? i’ll take the 8 for 100 and a TD week in and week out And none of the other 3 you said have done it as often for as long as Tony.

I think Gonzo > Sharpe is legit and honestly I might put him ahead of him thinking about it more but it's close. At least for me. Sharpe was never the #1 rec option and was stuck blocking in Shanahan's scheme but still put up 3 1K seasons, one just shy at like 995 and a few 700 +. I give him the edge in the blocking department which also matters to me. Gonzo actually wasn't a "bad" blocker but I give Sharpe the edge there.

Ok so after that here's my top 10

Gronk, Kittle, Kelce, Gonzo, Sharpe, Gates, Winslow, Ditka, Mackey, Ozzie


Kittle is brand new but he might be in on the GOAT convo when it's all said & done. Maybe the goat blocking TE which sounds crazy with Gronk on there but Kittle is an animal in space (talking about blocking) and probably slightly better than Gronk detached/stalk blocking - again blacking in space. Gronk was damm near an extra OL at his size inline.

I know that may not sit well with some but blocking matters and Kittle is better than most I've ever seen. And rec wise he's an absolute savage. Route running, yac/breaking tackles, contact balance, hands ... he's unbelievable. But yea I think you're right about Gonzo > Sharpe. Although I think it's close you're right.

 

[Steve102]

No

Top 10

You can argue the order but my top 5 is:

Tom Brady
Bill Russell
Bobby Orr
Larry Bird
Ted Williams

Big Drop from there to ...

John Havlichek
David Ortiz
Carl Yastrzemski
Bob Cousy
Ray Bourque

Who do you bump? Where's Pedro fit in? John Hannah? Paul Pierce?

 

[BaconGrundleCandy]

Tony Gonzalez was so good, it changed what teams would look for in a TE.

you might have forgotten but there were guys like Winslow, Big Mark, , Sharpe, Ozzie that were prototype long before Gonzo. Sharpe retired as the all-time leader in everything if I'm not mistaken when he hung it up.

Nobody had success until the Chargers found Antonio Gates in 2003 who this board is forgetting about. That guy was a really f***ing good TE.

I think he's universally 3-7 on every list but yea he was top tier. Definitely. Witten almost made my list and might if I think about it again but he's really under appreciated as well.

Dallas Clark is another one. The 3 Cone god! He was fantastic and really helped Manning become a better QB.

Coates obviously. I think Greg Olsen will go down as a top 15-20 guy. He's very underrated.

But Gronk was so dominant during his time, it forced teams to resort to dirty tactics to slow him down like teams did with Shaq in basketball. How many times did we see defenders not even waste their time tackling him straight up, but going straight for the knees instead?

Unless you played sports at a high level or was fortunate enough to play against a great player or two it's tough to describe how you describe / defend someone like that. I think most people would turtle if 6'5/265 were coming at them. Nevermind with agility, crazy toughness and speed. Just impossible and we saw it firsthand for years. Those plays against the colts, Washington, Broncos, Steelers etc were alien-like.

 

[Bill Lee]

Matters to me that all time great players do not come across as hating the organization representing the region we come from or live in

Give it some time. Many players left unhappy, but are now able to look at things in perspective years after the separation. I think of Willie Mac as one of those. Wasn't happy to be sent to CLE, was happy years later to tie himself to the Pats Dynasty.

 

[jimnance]

I think Gonzo > Sharpe is legit and honestly I might put him ahead of him thinking about it more but it's close. At least for me. Sharpe was never the #1 rec option and was stuck blocking in Shanahan's scheme but still put up 3 1K seasons, one just shy at like 995 and a few 700 +. I give him the edge in the blocking department which also matters to me. Gonzo actually wasn't a "bad" blocker but I give Sharpe the edge there.

Ok so after that here's my top 10

Gronk, Kittle, Kelce, Gonzo, Sharpe, Gates, Winslow, Ditka, Mackey, Ozzie


Kittle is brand new but he might be in on the GOAT convo when it's all said & done. Maybe the goat blocking TE which sounds crazy with Gronk on there but Kittle is an animal in space (talking about blocking) and probably slightly better than Gronk detached/stalk blocking - again blacking in space. Gronk was damm near an extra OL at his size inline.

I know that may not sit well with some but blocking matters and Kittle is better than most I've ever seen. And rec wise he's an absolute savage. Route running, yac/breaking tackles, contact balance, hands ... he's unbelievable. But yea I think you're right about Gonzo > Sharpe. Although I think it's close you're right.

Pretty hard to argue with that list.
I pretty much agree on Kittle. He's about the closest I've seen to Gronk though not quite as good as Gronk was at his best.
I also agree where you rank Tony G and Kelce, even though neither is a great blocker. But their receiving skills were SO great that you have to weigh their overall impact on a game. Not on Gronks level but way up.there.

 

[jlu52]

I think Gonzo > Sharpe is legit and honestly I might put him ahead of him thinking about it more but it's close. At least for me. Sharpe was never the #1 rec option and was stuck blocking in Shanahan's scheme but still put up 3 1K seasons, one just shy at like 995 and a few 700 +. I give him the edge in the blocking department which also matters to me. Gonzo actually wasn't a "bad" blocker but I give Sharpe the edge there.

Ok so after that here's my top 10

Gronk, Kittle, Kelce, Gonzo, Sharpe, Gates, Winslow, Ditka, Mackey, Ozzie


Kittle is brand new but he might be in on the GOAT convo when it's all said & done. Maybe the goat blocking TE which sounds crazy with Gronk on there but Kittle is an animal in space (talking about blocking) and probably slightly better than Gronk detached/stalk blocking - again blacking in space. Gronk was damm near an extra OL at his size inline.

I know that may not sit well with some but blocking matters and Kittle is better than most I've ever seen. And rec wise he's an absolute savage. Route running, yac/breaking tackles, contact balance, hands ... he's unbelievable. But yea I think you're right about Gonzo > Sharpe. Although I think it's close you're right.

I would have to put Jackie Smith in there somewhere. He was one helluva tight end, one helluva football player.

 

[SHOWTIME15]

Doesn’t sound like Gronk is coming back any time soon…

 

[venecol]

Have Kraft a/o Bill issued any statements yet?

 

[Lavictoire]

His agent already left the door open for another comeback if/when Brady calls. This lets him avoid camp and save his body until late season when he is needed.

 

[captain stone]

I would have to put Jackie Smith in there somewhere. He was one helluva tight end, one helluva football player.

And if he hasn't been mentioned already, Mike Ditka.

 

[RobertWeathers]

You can argue the order but my top 5 is:

Tom Brady
Bill Russell
Bobby Orr
Larry Bird
Ted Williams

Big Drop from there to ...

John Havlichek
David Ortiz
Carl Yastrzemski
Bob Cousy
Ray Bourque

Who do you bump? Where's Pedro fit in? John Hannah? Paul Pierce?

Agreed on Top 5.

Hondo, Raymond-Jean and Ortiz are locks.

I can't speak to Cooz other than I grew up with him doing color w/ Gil Santos for Celts games on WBZ and never saw him play. Maybe Sam Jones should get some consideration.

Pedro was the greatest pitcher in modern Red Sox history. Forget about the roids with Roger. I loved Clem when he was here. Pedro was better. He wasn't here long but what an impact on the region. Same category as Cam Neely.

Should either one be in the Top 10 over Yaz? Tough call but i'd lean towards Yaz.

 

[rochrist]

you might have forgotten but there were guys like Winslow, Big Mark, , Sharpe, Ozzie that were prototype long before Gonzo. Sharpe retired as the all-time leader in everything if I'm not mistaken when he hung it up.

I think he's universally 3-7 on every list but yea he was top tier. Definitely. Witten almost made my list and might if I think about it again but he's really under appreciated as well.

Dallas Clark is another one. The 3 Cone god! He was fantastic and really helped Manning become a better QB.

Coates obviously. I think Greg Olsen will go down as a top 15-20 guy. He's very underrated.

Unless you played sports at a high level or was fortunate enough to play against a great player or two it's tough to describe how you describe / defend someone like that. I think most people would turtle if 6'5/265 were coming at them. Nevermind with agility, crazy toughness and speed. Just impossible and we saw it firsthand for years. Those plays against the colts, Washington, Broncos, Steelers etc were alien-like.

Don’t overlook Francis.