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Breaking: Gronk to Retire

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crawhammer

Rotational Player and Threatening Starter's Job
Look how badly the Pats struggled without a healthy Gronk in the Super against the Giants.
The one target Welker didn't pull in cost them the game. That and an 88-yard game-winning TD drive by Eli against our defense that was really weak in 2011.

They couldn’t move the ball a year later against the Ravens in the AFCCG.
They had 28 first downs and 428 total yards of offense.

They had no shot against the Broncos in 2013 AFCCG.
Agreed but Gronk's absence wasn't the only reason. Brady's #2 in that game was a completely washed Austin Collie. Their defense also wasn't good in 2013.

They suddenly won a Super Bowl with a healthy Gronk.
With a historic 4th quarter comeback against the Legion of Boom. 4 TDs by 4 different receivers in that Super Bowl.

Their offense ran through Gronk.
Not in 2016 when they played as well offensively as they ever had under Brady.

My original question was had the Pats not drafted Gronk, does Tom stay or Bill move on from him prior to the 2016 season?
Bill still moved on from Brady way too early. Bill also tried to trade Gronk when he was still in his prime. Given how the 2016 season went (and finished), it became impossible for the Patriots to move on from Brady at that time. But again, the 2016 season happened without Gronk making a reception after week 9.
 

crawhammer

Rotational Player and Threatening Starter's Job
By the way, when looking at the totality of their careers, Jerry Rice is greater than Gronk. And it's probably not even close.

Regular Season

Rec
Rice = 1549
Gronk = 621

Yards
Rice = 22,895
Gronk = 9286

TDs
Rice = 197
Gronk = 92

Postseason

Rec
Rice = 151
Gronk = 98

Yards
Rice = 2245
Gronk = 1389

TDs
Rice = 22
Gronk = 15
 

MAC10

Big Mac Jones fan
2020 Weekly NFL Picks Winner
By the way, when looking at the totality of their careers, Jerry Rice is greater than Gronk. And it's probably not even close.

Regular Season

Rec
Rice = 1549
Gronk = 621

Yards
Rice = 22,895
Gronk = 9286

TDs
Rice = 197
Gronk = 92

Postseason

Rec
Rice = 151
Gronk = 98

Yards
Rice = 2245
Gronk = 1389

TDs
Rice = 22
Gronk = 15

LOL, you’re comparing the stats of a guy who played in 165 games (Gronk) to another who played in 332 games (rice)?
 

TheRainMaker

Voted most handsome by my mother
2020 Weekly NFL Picks Winner
The one target Welker didn't pull in cost them the game. That and an 88-yard game-winning TD drive by Eli against our defense that was really weak in 2011.
They had plenty of chances prior to that to end the game but they blew their wad up 17-9.
They had 28 first downs and 428 total yards of offense.
How many drives stalled in that game? They ended up with only 13 points and got their azz kicked.
Their defense also wasn't good in 2013.
It was better than prior years.
With a historic 4th quarter comeback against the Legion of Boom. 4 TDs by 4 different receivers in that Super Bowl.
You really think they’d win that game without Gronk?
Bill still moved on from Brady way too early. Bill also tried to trade Gronk when he was still in his prime. Given how the 2016 season went (and finished), it became impossible for the Patriots to move on from Brady at that time. But again, the 2016 season happened without Gronk making a reception after week 9.
You still aren’t answering the question. If Gronk wasn’t drafted, how long does Brady stay?
 

Bill Lee

What, me worry?
PatsFans.com Supporter
Rice had the better career, but this comparison needs to be viewed in context...and if Gronk played in as many playoff games as Rice, Gronk would be better in certain categories.
I agree, which means we can say he should have better stats if he was healthier, but also he fell to us in the draft exactly because of the health issues, and there definitely were times we could have really used him on the field but he was on IR.

Overall, I'd take Rice and a replacement-level TE for their careers over Gronk and a replacement-level WR for their carers, and I'm pretty confident I'd be ahead of the game.

That doesn't mean I don't love Gronk. I was thrilled to see his accomplishments here and in Tampa, he's a legend! But so is Rice.
 
Last edited:

Bruins29

Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract
As much as I think he is an ass, Rice put up 92 rec and 1211 yards as a 40 year old with Rich Gannon throwing him the ball after 17 years of being mauled by cornerbacks. No one will ever touch his records even with the game completely changing to favor higher offense.
 

venecol

The FRG has a little ****
PatsFans.com Supporter
2021 Weekly NFL Picks Winner
By the way, when looking at the totality of their careers, Jerry Rice is greater than Gronk. And it's probably not even close.

Regular Season (per game)

Rec
Rice = 1549 (5.1)
Gronk = 621 (4.3)

Yards
Rice = 22,895 (75.6)
Gronk = 9286 (64.1)

TDs
Rice = 197 (0.7)
Gronk = 92 (0.6)

Postseason

Rec
Rice = 151 (5.2)
Gronk = 98 (4.5)

Yards
Rice = 2245 (77.4)
Gronk = 1389 (63.1)

TDs
Rice = 22 (0.8)
Gronk = 15 (0.7)
On a per game basis, Rice was still better but his main job was to be a receiver. Gronk had other duties to worry about aside from being double covered a lot when he was a receiver.

Rice GOAT WR
Gronk GOAT TE
 

Bill Lee

What, me worry?
PatsFans.com Supporter
As much as I think he is an ass, Rice put up 92 rec and 1211 yards as a 40 year old with Rich Gannon throwing him the ball after 17 years of being mauled by cornerbacks. No one will ever touch his records even with the game completely changing to favor higher offense.
Agree, Rice was great and was able to stay on the field.

Gronk also was great, wish he was on the field even more than he was able to be.

 

Bruins29

Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract
On a per game basis, Rice was still better but his main job was to be a receiver. Gronk had other duties to worry about aside from being double covered a lot when he was a receiver.

Rice GOAT WR
Gronk GOAT TE
Agree. I am not sure how you put Gronk on some other plane? Rice's blocking shouldnt be compared to Gronks and consequently Gronks production shouldnt really be compared to Rice's
 

Bill Lee

What, me worry?
PatsFans.com Supporter
Agree. I am not sure how you put Gronk on some other plane? Rice's blocking shouldnt be compared to Gronks and consequently Gronks production shouldnt really be compared to Rice's
The rules in Rice's era let DBs beat up on WRs, and Rice wasn't exactly built to take such a beating, yet he was able to stay on the field.

I think Gronk would have similar stats if he was able to stay on the field like Rice, but, he wasn't able to.

The difference is Rice did it, and we need to project what Gronk would have done because he didn't do it.
 

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