Brainstorming......Ryan Mallet.

[Avenger]

Don't be a smart ass. Its common knowledge that Hoyer was an UDFA. What's you point? The question is what good would a 5th or 6th round pick do for the Pats this year. BB has already acquired players in FA that will take ST and role playing spots that usually went to draft picks. Any more than 5 picks in this draft will be a waste. So why trade Hoyer for a draft pick you DON'T need?

I would rather move Hoyer and get something back than have him walk next year as a free agent. Later round players can still have an impact and would benefit the Pats more than having Hoyer an extra year. Picking up an early 4th rounder and change has potential to bring in an impact player. Hernandez was a 4th rounder pick 113 overall, his rookie year he had 45 receptions for 563 yards and six touchdowns. Proving a 4th rounder can be a significant contributor during his first year.

 

[supafly]

I would rather move Hoyer and get something back than have him walk next year as a free agent. Later round players can still have an impact and would benefit the Pats more than having Hoyer an extra year. Picking up an early 4th rounder and change has potential to bring in an impact player. Hernandez was a 4th rounder pick 113 overall, his rookie year he had 45 receptions for 563 yards and six touchdowns. Proving a 4th rounder can be a significant contributor during his first year.

Certainly a good argument for that too, but one never knows when they'll need that backup QB....

He can take over for a couple/few games and keep us afloat. There's the thinking that BB may actually keep him next yr too, that comes into play.

 

[manxman2601]

We were told the market for Hoyer was "tepid". In that case, rather than trading him outright, what about as a makeweight in a draft day trade. As most of you probably know, I'm an advocate for trading up for Barron. Please disregard Barron here, the same argument could be made with regards to Brockers. But I've previously suggested a trade up with Arizona who are missing a second round pick. We'd trade #27 and #48 for their #13. There's a 50 point difference between the picks to our advantage. So in this instance, would you a) be prepared to include Hoyer as the makeweight in that deal (the 50 points) and B) would the Cards go for that?

 

[Blackluck]

Using Hoyer in a trade package makes sense, but I think the Cards are happy with the job Skelton has done, so while an ideal trade partner in the (unlikely imo) event of trading up, I don't think Hoyer offers much to them as their 3rd QB. I think Chicago can use a backup QB, but someone they like will be on the board at 19, so don't see them trading back. Seattle would like to trade back but they have 2 QBs, too. In short I don't see Hoyer being used in a trade up scenario (but I could of course be completely wrong :singing

 

[IllegalContact]

Forgive me if I base my assessment off of what I've observed of him on the field: a poised and accurate QB. I'd gladly spend a 2nd on him and give him a shot at a starting job.

When did you observe this poise and accuracy?

I would not trade for Hoyer.

 

[Snake Eyes]

When did you observe this poise and accuracy?

In the snaps I've seen him play. You really can't teach the kind of poise needed to step into a throw right when about to be hit, and deliver the ball on the money. Hoyer's done that.

 

[Avenger]

Certainly a good argument for that too, but one never knows when they'll need that backup QB....

He can take over for a couple/few games and keep us afloat. There's the thinking that BB may actually keep him next yr too, that comes into play.

Hoyer will not re-sign next year even if BB wants him back. From what I have seen of Mallet in college and preseason I would trust him to be the primary backup, and draft Kellen Moore as the QB3. Hoyer may be able to keep us afloat, but Mallet can just as well IMO. But I see your point too, and either way it is a good decision for the team to either keep or trade him.

 

[ctpatsfan77]

In the snaps I've seen him play. You really can't teach the kind of poise needed to step into a throw right when about to be hit, and deliver the ball on the money. Hoyer's done that.

See: his first TD pass.

 

[IllegalContact]

In the snaps I've seen him play. You really can't teach the kind of poise needed to step into a throw right when about to be hit, and deliver the ball on the money. Hoyer's done that.

Which ones? He has not played a meaningful snap since college.

 

[Snake Eyes]

Which ones? He has not played a meaningful snap since college.

What makes his snaps not meaningful? If a linebacker is running towards the QB full speed, and the QB knows he's about to make that hit a LOT worse by stepping into that throw, yet he does it anyway and throws the ball on the money, how does that not mean anything?

You can't teach that toughness and fearlessness. Every time Hoyer's been in a game he's been very solid, that doesn't make him a lock for Canton, but I don't know how it would indicate that he can't be a legit starter.

 

[IllegalContact]

What makes his snaps not meaningful? If a linebacker is running towards the QB full speed, and the QB knows he's about to make that hit a LOT worse by stepping into that throw, yet he does it anyway and throws the ball on the money, how does that not mean anything?

You can't teach that toughness and fearlessness. Every time Hoyer's been in a game he's been very solid, that doesn't make him a lock for Canton, but I don't know how it would indicate that he can't be a legit starter.

I guess the fact that the outcomes were already decided......just as meaningful as any preseason snap.

Hoyer is not an NFL starter....not for a team with playoff aspirations anyway.......to me it's pretty much a given.

 

[Snake Eyes]

I guess the fact that the outcomes were already decided......just as meaningful as any preseason snap.

Hoyer is not an NFL starter....not for a team with playoff aspirations anyway.......to me it's pretty much a given.

If a player can't perform in the pre-season I could understand how one would extrapolate that they can't perform in the regular season, but I don't understand how showing that they can perform well in the preseason is evidence that they can't perform in the regular season.

 

[Stilla]

A few things about Mallet.

It is without question, he possesses the skill set of a 1st round talent, he fell to the 3rd.

I would like to gamble that, it was at that time, that the system BB built, "The Patriots Way," forced the team to talk about the not to distant future in the draft war room, and how it might be closer than any of them would like to accept. It was at that moment that a trigger was pulled which would put into place a game plan for a NE team without BB. From that moment going forward Kraft had to look at building a new dynasty and it was BB who showed him the road by proposing the Mallet pick.

In picking Mallet the team would have to carry 3 QBs, they were forced to loose a roster spot. Not only that but they give up the ability to draft a player who would compete to be a starter on the team. Mallet was not going to take anyones job, he was to sit the bench and learn to grow as a player. After loosing the SB, that roster spot looks like a SB ring to me.

The above describes the Patriots Way, team building is done by growing talent, and that isn't exclusive to just players, its true for the coaches.

In comes Josh McDaniels, anyone want to perceive this move as anything other than bringing back home grown talent. I don't think Kraft or BB know when BB would retire, but one can't claim that this move doesn't give a home grown talent the ability to compete for the starting job.

I am not saying that Josh would be given BB's job, but it puts in place a person who can compete for his job. Its important that he is on the team. It would make for an easier transition. It is something Kraft take pride in.

So now with that all said. Why would BB and Kraft, want to deconstruct a good thing. No one knows if Brady would want to retire with BB. No one knows when BB would retire, but planing for things is the Patriots way.

If and when the current plan changes, things will be done to try to achieve the same goal, but at the moment, there is no immediate need to complicate thing. We were in the SB after all. Meaning Mallet isn't going anywhere this year.

 

[IllegalContact]

If a player can't perform in the pre-season I could understand how one would extrapolate that they can't perform in the regular season, but I don't understand how showing that they can perform well in the preseason is evidence that they can't perform in the regular season.

you're losing track of your own argument.......nothing changes the fact that hoyer has not had a meaningful snap in the regular season, so there is no evidence that he cna perform at that level. Neither has Mallett, but at least with him, I see a legit NFL starter

 

[Brady'sButtBoy]

Inexperienced NFL players are like automobiles: Once they're driven off the lot (drafted) they are instantly worth less than when they were new (still in college).

To trade for Mallet now would require a team to tell its fan base that they just sent a high pick for a player that has accomplished zero in the NFL. Mallet's, or anyone's college performance is no longer the measuring stick once they've been in the league for a while. Quarterbacks are a little different situation because they can't ever get on the field if the team already has a star and most fans understand this. Regardless, Mallet will never be valued as highly as he was coming out of college until he shows something in the NFL that can be measured. It doesn't have to much -just ask Matt Flynn. He had two games on his resume, TWO! And that was enough to get him a pretty big contract. Once Flynn became a NFL player it was no longer about what he did or didn't do in the NCAA. He got the money and became a valuable commodity because of what he did, minute sample though it might be, in the big leagues. So don't expect anyone to come knocking with a high offer for Mallet, it's not going to happen until he plays.

 

[MoLewisrocks]

Inexperienced NFL players are like automobiles: Once they're driven off the lot (drafted) they are instantly worth less than when they were new (still in college)]/b].

To trade for Mallet now would require a team to tell its fan base that they just sent a high pick for a player that has accomplished zero in the NFL. Mallet's, or anyone's college performance is no longer the measuring stick once they've been in the league for a while. Quarterbacks are a little different situation because they can't ever get on the field if the team already has a star and most fans understand this. Regardless, Mallet will never be valued as highly as he was coming out of college until he shows something in the NFL that can be measured. It doesn't have to much -just ask Matt Flynn. He had two games on his resume, TWO! And that was enough to get him a pretty big contract. Once Flynn became a NFL player it was no longer about what he did or didn't do in the NCAA. He got the money and became a valuable commodity because of what he did, minute sample though it might be, in the big leagues. So don't expect anyone to come knocking with a high offer for Mallet, it's not going to happen until he plays.

Most insightful post in this thread... Bumped the repeated misfit for Cleveland's system posts the OP fails to acknowledge not to mention the increasing value of a veteran system backup given Brady's value and age posts. It's as if some here slept through 2008... And for those seeking value for Hoyer, his presence represents value and if he does walk away and get a nice deal to start for some other franchise in 2013 we will get a comp pick for him that is probably close to what you could trade him for at this juncture anyway.

 

[Snake Eyes]

you're losing track of your own argument.......nothing changes the fact that hoyer has not had a meaningful snap in the regular season, so there is no evidence that he cna perform at that level. Neither has Mallett, but at least with him, I see a legit NFL starter

I’m losing track of my argument?

Hoyer has performed very well in the limited time he’s played, but apparently he’s not good enough to be an NFL starter.

Mallett has played far less than Hoyer, and not played nearly as well, but he’s definitely got what it takes to be a starter?

Thanks for clearing that up for me

 

[MoLewisrocks]

I’m losing track of my argument?

Hoyer has performed very well in the limited time he’s played, but apparently he’s not good enough to be an NFL starter.

Mallett has played far less than Hoyer, and not played nearly as well, but he’s definitely got what it takes to be a starter?

Thanks for clearing that up for me

That's the draft talent perception factor at play...

 

[Snake Eyes]

That's the draft talent perception factor at play...

That, and people's fixation with suits. I believe if Hoyer had a name that sounded like a General, had great hair, dated a model, etc, teams would have a much higher opinion of him.

 

[IllegalContact]

That's the draft talent perception factor at play...

LOL.......beats: 'I like this guy because......well.....I just like him....and I don't like this guy because.......well......I just don't like him'

and please.....explain 'the system' again