Brady6 Offseason Plan 1.0

[50-yard-line]

Adrian Wilson is not going to be that player in my opinion. The NFL is a young man’s game especially at the skill positions.

There are $1,166,666 reasons to cut Adrian Wilson.

Miguel, you there?

Perhaps Miguel can enlighten us, but my understanding is that the Pats can wait until roster cut-downs to decide on Wilson. No one doubts the guy's fitness - he's a specimen to be sure.

And I only named a few - Strahan...heck, you want to extend Wilfork...Brian Waters...the list is longer than you think. San Fran's center is 35 and if the Pats don't get Mack, I want them to scoop him in a heartbeat.

The first thing to go, physically, is stamina. An every down player who has to run up and down (receiver, corner) the field will probably falter. For short bursts, a 35 year old can match a kid. I'll take a situational veteran pass-rusher over a rookie almost every time IN THOSE SITUATIONS. As for Wilson...if he can give me 10-15 snaps a game where he can put fear into the eyes of the receivers in the part of the field where the opponent is most likely to make a first down (and can add a bit of aggression and attitude to the Pats' D), he's worth that money to me and then some.

I honestly don't know if he can even do that. So let's see.

You are comparing MLB to the NFL 50 that is so different. Outside of QBs and K/P there are very few players that play after age 35.

Sure...the wear and tear can break a guy down. Concussions, repeated injuries. Wilson is too slow now to be an every-down safety, it seems (and I say "seems" because I read reports out of Arizona that said he was doing just fine but they were looking to transition), but that doesn't mean he can't translate into a box defender with a minimal zone to protect and intimidate.

I see no reason to pull the trigger, but again, maybe Miguel can help out here.

Losing Kelly, if he can still play would be a mistake - a huge mistake. As big a mistake as not bringing in a 3rd DE who could get to the QB last year. I see no need for the Pats to start pulling the trigger on people under their control to gather in a million here, a million there, when they can make a few restructures and obvious cuts to gather all the money they'll need in FA. it's not like they're going to spend every dime between now and May.

So talk to Talib, Edelman, Blount and the others before FA. Sign any you think are worth the price. Let the others hit the market and see what comes up for them, while you're looking at the FA pieces that might make your draft easier. If you can get a guy like Mack or Houston at a price you like, THEN you go to Wifork and restructure, then you go to Mankins, then you cut a Gregory or a Connolly.

BB plays a patient game.

 

[Brady6]

No one views Ryan Mallett as a franchise QB
Even if they did they would not trade the 33rd pick in the draft to get him on the last year of his contract. They could simply wait and sign him as a FA QB who has barely taken a snap in 4 years in 2015.

How do you know what others view Mallett as? You cannot make that assertion.

Why would they wait an entire season and then bid for his services on the UFA market? They can bring him in now for #33 and see if he can do it, if they wait and do that and Mallett did not workout they would be looking at 2016 at minimum for having their QB moving forward.

I am not sure why you or anyone would expect Ryan Mallett to have many regular season snaps and use that as a factor when assessing his worth. He backs up the greatest QB to play the game so unless Mallett is secretly the best QB in the history of the NFL there would be no reason for him to be playing instead of Brady.

 

[Miguel]

Therefore, it is the #33 pick for a QB who is 6’5” 245 Lbs. first round talent with a rocket arm, who has 3 years of watching the GOAT QB and coached by the GOAT HC.

What was said about Mallett in 2011 is immaterial to his value in 2014.

Brian Hoyer and Matt Cassell also watched Brady and were coached by BB. One could then say that 2013 Cassell is Mallet's upside.

I do agree that there were better players available but the point I was making is that #33 is far from a sure thing so taking a chance on Mallett who very well could be a franchise QB, would not be unreasonable.

Mallett is no more a sure thing than the 33rd pick.

 

[Miguel]

Miguel, you there?

Perhaps Miguel can enlighten us, but my understanding is that the Pats can wait until roster cut-downs to decide on Wilson. No one doubts the guy's fitness - he's a specimen to be sure.

The Pats can definitely afford to wait on Adrian Wilson.

 

[Brady6]

What was said about Mallett in 2011 is immaterial to his value in 2014.



Brian Hoyer and Matt Cassell also watched Brady and were coached by BB. One could then say that 2013 Cassell is Mallet's.

Well let me ask you this; if Mallett's value was seen as a potential first round pick in 2011 what has he done to lower that value in the last three years?

Honestly I felt like Cassel had his career derailed by injuries that occurred from playing behind an awful line in KC. He made the pro bowl in 2010 and then everything fell apart ending with his own fans cheering when he was injured. So if Mallett has the potential that Cassel had I would trade for him. I do not see any Andrew Luck's in this years draft and next year the best prospect would likely be the kid from Florida State who had the big rape saga.

 

[Miguel]

Well let me ask you this; if Mallett's value was seen as a potential first round pick in 2011 what has he done to lower that value in the last three years?

Potential does not equal production. Just because a player was viewed as a potential first round pick does not mean that he is worth being drafted in the first round pick. Look at how many failed first round picks there are each year.

What has he done in the past 3 years to justify being worth a first round pick, not seen as a potential first round pick?

 

[Deus Irae]

Before the draft, Mallett was viewed by some as a potential first round pick. Approximately 32 NFL GMs disagreed with the idea of Mallett as a first rounder. After the draft, he was viewed by all as an actual 3rd round pick.

In recent years, how often have tall, big-armed pocket passers dropped like that and then been dominant in the NFL?

 

[Brady6]

Potential does not equal production. Just because a player was viewed as a potential first round pick does not mean that he is worth being drafted in the first round pick. Look at how many failed first round picks there are each year.



What has he done in the past 3 years to justify being worth a first round pick, not seen as a potential first round pick?

OK that is fair.

Next question, if Houston wanted to take Clowney is there a QB at #33 you would want more than Mallett?

Just so know, I am not asking you in an attempt to get you to agree with me, I genuinely respect your opinion and am curious to hear your thoughts.

 

[50-yard-line]

Well let me ask you this; if Mallett's value was seen as a potential first round pick in 2011 what has he done to lower that value in the last three years?

He's come to the last year of a cost-controlled rookie contract without being able to prove out his potential. That lowers his value a ton in a league with a tight hard cap.

If I were Houston and I didn't see a true #1-pick QB (I don't), I'd probably either grab Clowney (if all the questions were answered) or trade back a couple of spots and get one of the top 3 QB's and another high pick.

If I saw no solutions at QB that I liked - Vick, Schaub, their rookies, Cassell, etc. - I'd package my third round pick and a backup QB for New England's third round pick and Ryan Mallet, or something like that.

There will be teams who want to move up to get someone who will covet the top pick in a round.

 

[Miguel]

OK that is fair.

Next question, if Houston wanted to take Clowney is there a QB at #33 you would want more than Mallett?

I no longer follow the NFL draft so I am not qualified to answer the question. I would just say that if I were the Texans I would trade up into the 1st round to get my QB for the future. The Texans are going to get at least two compensatory draft picks so they can afford to include other draft picks in a package while still having cheap late round picks.

 

[Brady6]

Before the draft, Mallett was viewed by some as a potential first round pick. Approximately 32 NFL GMs disagreed with the idea of Mallett as a first rounder. After the draft, he was viewed by all as an actual 3rd round pick.

In recent years, how often have tall, big-armed pocket passers dropped like that and then been dominant in the NFL?

I do not think he needs to dominate the NFL to be worthy of trading the #33 pick for. He understand O’Brien’s system from being here, he has a big arm, which will fit well with Johnson and Hopkins. If the team takes Clowney, and pairs him with Watt coupled with Joseph, Cushing, Mercilus, Smith, and others they will have a very good defense, they also have Foster and a solid run blocking offensive line. If they added some pieces around Mallett, they could have a very good team in 2014.

If they want to take Clowney something else they could do is trade back with another team, speaking they probably could trade back from #33 with another team, pick up an extra pick and then trade that later second round pick for Mallett.

 

[Ring 6]

How do you know what others view Mallett as? You cannot make that assertion.

OK show me all of the QBs drafted in the 3rd round who sat on the bench his entire first 3 years (4 passes) was shaky in preseason, and was traded for a 2nd round pick, much less the top pick in the 2nd.
Show me anything that would say anyone has that opinion of him?

Why would they wait an entire season and then bid for his services on the UFA market?

Because he is nothing special, and not worth giving up picks for.

They can bring him in now for #33 and see if he can do it, if they wait and do that and Mallett did not workout they would be looking at 2016 at minimum for having their QB moving forward.

Why wouldn't they just sign a different backup who has never played in the NFL and take a chance with him?
Why would Ryan Mallett have anything to do with their plans? You sound like you think he is the only QB they could build around. They probably have 10-15 other options that are no bigger or a long shot than him.

I am not sure why you or anyone would expect Ryan Mallett to have many regular season snaps and use that as a factor when assessing his worth. He backs up the greatest QB to play the game so unless Mallett is secretly the best QB in the history of the NFL there would be no reason for him to be playing instead of Brady.

What? Who cares why, he hasn't played football for 3 years. He has done nothing to raise the opinion of people who didn't draft him 3 years ago and has stagnated on the sidelines.
Teams don't consider him better because he was sitting behind Brady.

 

[Ring 6]

I do not think he needs to dominate the NFL to be worthy of trading the #33 pick for. He understand O’Brien’s system from being here, he has a big arm, which will fit well with Johnson and Hopkins. If the team takes Clowney, and pairs him with Watt coupled with Joseph, Cushing, Mercilus, Smith, and others they will have a very good defense, they also have Foster and a solid run blocking offensive line. If they added some pieces around Mallett, they could have a very good team in 2014.

If they want to take Clowney something else they could do is trade back with another team, speaking they probably could trade back from #33 with another team, pick up an extra pick and then trade that later second round pick for Mallett.

Or they could choose from many other QBs without trading away a pick.

 

[Brady6]

OK show me all of the QBs drafted in the 3rd round who sat on the bench his entire first 3 years (4 passes) was shaky in preseason, and was traded for a 2nd round pick, much less the top pick in the 2nd.
Show me anything that would say anyone has that opinion of him?

Three of the top five QBs taken in the last two drafts were third round picks – Mike Glennon (#73), Russell Wilson (#75), and Nick Foles (#88).

These players were all backup QBs that netted significant returns in a trade.
- Kevin Kolb (#36)
- Charlie Whitehurst (#81)
- Matt Cassell (#230)
- Matt Schuab (#90)
- Brett Farve (#33)
- Matt Hasselbeck (#187)
- Mark Brunell (#118)
- Aaron Brooks (#131)
- Rob Johnson (#99)
- A.J. Feeley (#155)
- Jeff Lewis (#100)

Because he is nothing special, and not worth giving up picks for.

You confuse lack of opportunity with lack of ability. You have no idea what Mallett is or is not, the fact is you have seen him in preseason games playing with second and third string player many of whom do not even make an NFL roster, and maybe you see him in some training camp practices playing with those same types of players.

You probably believed Edelman would never be anything special either when he was behind Welker for the first 4 seasons of his career. Then he received the opportunity and he flourished.

Why wouldn't they just sign a different backup who has never played in the NFL and take a chance with him?
Why would Ryan Mallett have anything to do with their plans? You sound like you think he is the only QB they could build around. They probably have 10-15 other options that are no bigger or a long shot than him.

Name another backup QB other than Cousin’s who also has a second round asking price that is comparable to Ryan Mallett?

What? Who cares why, he hasn't played football for 3 years. He has done nothing to raise the opinion of people who didn't draft him 3 years ago and has stagnated on the sidelines.
Teams don't consider him better because he was sitting behind Brady.

Did they tell you that? Brunell, Hasselbeck, and Brooks were all valued high because they played behind Favre. The last two backup QBs for Brady before Mallett both were their teams starter last season (Hoyer prior to injury).

 

[PatsWickedPissah]

Color me impressed with your research (example: " backup QBs that netted significant returns in a trade") B6; not so much with some of your conclusions. Like the tragic Greek heroes of old, oft tragically flawed (Hammah @ 33 for example)
Good off-season fodder.

 

[Brady6]

Color me impressed with your research (example: " backup QBs that netted significant returns in a trade") B6; not so much with some of your conclusions. Like the tragic Greek heroes of old, oft tragically flawed (Hammah @ 33 for example)
Good off-season fodder.

Pissah I love your posts 95% of the time and 5% of the time they are beyond my level of intelligence and confuse me – this is one of the 5% so I am confused, are you referring to Favre? The information I have says Favre was draft in 1991 with pick #33 by the Falcons and traded to the Packers in 1992 for the #19 overall pick, is that inaccurate?

 

[Brady6]

Or they could choose from many other QBs without trading away a pick.

If Mallett can be starting QB in the NFL the #33 overall pick would be a small price to pay. I am sure that O’Brien knows more about Mallett than any other coach that is not part of the Patriots organization currently employed in the NFL, so if he believes in Mallett being his guy I am sure he would trade #33 without thinking twice. We are not talking about trading Mallett to a team that has zero history with him we are talking about trading him to the team that is coached by the coach who was his first NFL coordinator and part of his draft process, etc.

 

[DocHoliday]

Pissah I love your posts 95% of the time and 5% of the time they are beyond my level of intelligence and confuse me – this is one of the 5% so I am confused, are you referring to Favre? The information I have says Favre was draft in 1991 with pick #33 by the Falcons and traded to the Packers in 1992 for the #19 overall pick, is that inaccurate?

Even taking into account hindsight, Brett Favre was Brett Favre and Ryan Mallet isn't.

He was much less of a gamble.

 

[Ring 6]

Three of the top five QBs taken in the last two drafts were third round picks – Mike Glennon (#73), Russell Wilson (#75), and Nick Foles (#88).

These players were all backup QBs that netted significant returns in a trade.
- Kevin Kolb (#36)
- Charlie Whitehurst (#81)
- Matt Cassell (#230)
- Matt Schuab (#90)
- Brett Farve (#33)
- Matt Hasselbeck (#187)
- Mark Brunell (#118)
- Aaron Brooks (#131)
- Rob Johnson (#99)
- A.J. Feeley (#155)
- Jeff Lewis (#100)

Zero of which netted what you think Mallet will after sitting for 3 years.

You confuse lack of opportunity with lack of ability.

No I don't. You confuse lack of ever showing you have ability with teams trading for you as if you do.

You have no idea what Mallett is or is not, the fact is you have seen him in preseason games playing with second and third string player many of whom do not even make an NFL roster, and maybe you see him in some training camp practices playing with those same types of players.

So where do you get the idea that he can play?

You probably believed Edelman would never be anything special either when he was behind Welker for the first 4 seasons of his career. Then he received the opportunity and he flourished.

The fact that one player improved when given more opportunity does not have anything to do with another player.
You are arguing that everyone who has never played should be considered good.

Name another backup QB other than Cousin’s who also has a second round asking price that is comparable to Ryan Mallett?

First of all you don't know that is the asking price and second who cares what the asking price is? If no one pays it, then it is wrong.

Did they tell you that? Brunell, Hasselbeck, and Brooks were all valued high because they played behind Favre.

None of those players were traded for second round picks, much less at the top of the second round. They weren't wanted because of being Bret Favres backup, they were wanted because of preseason play, and coaching in the WCO.
If being Bradys backup earned you trade value, we would have gotten a 2nd for Rohan Davey, Matt Gutierrez, and Brian Hoyer, who we got a combined nothing for.

The last two backup QBs for Brady before Mallett both were their teams starter last season (Hoyer prior to injury).

Cassell only started due to injury and was still benched.
Hoyer went unclaimed when we cut him and bounced around for 2 years.
No one spent a draft pick to trade for Hoyer, and Cassell only netted a 2nd with Mike Vrabel included in the deal AFTER he won 10 games as a starter.
Mallett hasn't thrown 10 passes.

You think that someone is going to trade a pick 50 spots higher than Mallett was selected after he sat doing nothing for 3 years since no one thought he should go higher than 82 (or whatever exactly his draft slot was)?
How do you feel about some land that is slightly under water this time of year?

 

[Ring 6]

If Mallett can be starting QB in the NFL the #33 overall pick would be a small price to pay.

If Tebow could, you can get him for free.
Pretending Mallet has more value than he does, doesnt make him have more value.

I am sure that O’Brien knows more about Mallett than any other coach that is not part of the Patriots organization currently employed in the NFL,

Why would you assume that means he thinks he can play?

so if he believes in Mallett being his guy I am sure he would trade #33 without thinking twice.

But he doesn't.

We are not talking about trading Mallett to a team that has zero history with him we are talking about trading him to the team that is coached by the coach who was his first NFL coordinator and part of his draft process, etc.

That does not make him a better player.
By this logic the Rams should trade their #1 for Mark Sanchez because Schottenheimer knows him really well.
OBrien isn't trading for a guy because he was a Patriot. He is going to get a QB because he can play. There is no evidence out there that Mallett can play at this level.