Brady vs Jordan

[RayRay]

Im putting Brady above Jordan as the greatest athlete ever bar none.

The biggest factor is that Brady has won in 2 different eras with totally different guys, Jordan never did that.
Also, when it matters the most (Playoffs) Brady is second to none whereas Jordan, although extremely dominant, doesnt own all the playoff records.

And this whole "Jordan never lost in the Finals" Bs is a joke.
Jordan did lose in the Finals, only difference is when you lose you dont go home, you can lose 3 times and still win the Finals.

Jordan has lost a total of 11 Finals games.
Sure only 2 of them were game 1's but that would make Jordan 4-2 still less than Brady's 6-3.
And even though players never want to lose ANY games in the playoffs, im sure the mentality is different going into a game knowing you get up to 7 games to win a series as opposed to the 1 and done in Football.

"Well Brady had Belichick and when Brady was injured, the Pats went 11-5 without him"
Ok, Jordan had Phil and retired after his 3rd championship and the very next season the Bulls go 55-27 and are 3rd in the East and were one game away from knocking out the Ewing led Knicks in the Semi's.
Same Knicks team that went up 3-2 in the Finals only to lose the last 2 games to the Rockets.
So they lost to a team who was 1 win away from being Champions WITHOUT Jordan.
They also went on two-10 game win streaks that season.

Second season, wins dropped for the Bulls but Still finished with 47-35 and still make it to the Semi's AGAIN.
The Bradyless Pats, never made the playoffs.

And I know were talking team sports, but lets take away their best side kick and see what happens?
Jordan never won without Pippen.
Brady has won without Gronk, Edelman, Moss, Welker, Faulk, Brown, Dillon, Branch......I can go on and on.

Even when these guys were on the roster, Brady still Won and at least made it to the Superbowl without them being there. (Won Superbowl against Falcons when Gronk was inured, and Lost to Philly last year with Edelman out all season)
Pippen was always there for Jordan in the Finals.

Literally the only thing you can argue about Jordan vs Brady is that in basketball you play both sides of the ball which Jordan did better than anyone when it counted but thats about it.

 

[Ice_Ice_Brady]

Yup. People love saying that Manning or Rodgers or whoever would win lots of rings with Belichick in New England without any evidence to back that up.

Maybe it’s just me but I see lots of reasons to think they wouldn’t win even one.

I couldn’t agree more. Personality dynamics are totally overlooked. If I had to guess based solely on fan information:

Rodgers would be a total disaster under Belichick. More articles coming out every day from former players complaining about his horrible leadership and arrogance. Belichick expects a lot out of veteran players for mentoring and setting examples.

Manning would probably have been a decent fit, though I think his ego drives him out eventually. He sure wouldn’t be waving punt units off the field or setting the market to extend his favorite skill players. Also think he can’t handle big city media pressure. Less individual glory, more team success. Less overall success than Brady. Big flaw is he’s a control freak and so is Belichick. That would be a challenging relationship with a ticking clock.

Roethlisberger would not have even been drafted to his character issues. Total lack of leadership, game is not disciplined/methodical, and he’s a bad teammate. So funny how Steeler fans think you could plug him and he’d get six rings too.

Brees would be the best fit. I think he would be a lot more successful under Belichick and would totally buy into the Patriot way. Great leader and approaches the game a lot like Brady. Not quite as good as Brady and not sure he has that extra clutch gear, but I little doubt at least a 3x SB winner if not more, but less than 6x.

Ryan would have also been a good fit, though he is a little quiet and doesn’t have Brady’s leadership qualities (who does though?). He’s a very good quarterback, though, and overall a very good guy who could be the face of the team and a perennial winner. Classic pocket passer, very accurate, coachable, and a good teammate.

Rivers would also be a pretty good fit and would probably win multiple titles. He is feisty, but not in a way that challenges coaches and his place within the offense. Another strong pocket passer who gets the ball out quick and accurate.

Wilson is complicated. I think his personality would be a great match; he doesn’t have an ego and totally buys into the team concept. His game is not quick read though, and he doesn’t recognize defenses like these other guys. I think he’d be someone who is successful because the team could adapt around his skills, but not the ideal player.

Luck would be successful but is too much of a “nice guy” and lacks killer instinct.

I really like Foles as a fit here. He can make all the throws and goes through all the progressions, plus the confidence and leadership factor.

I keep hearing Lions fans say Stafford would win titles in NE. Keep dreaming. No matter how many offensive coordinators or talented players around him, he just doesn’t get it done. He is just not a winner, and I’m sick of hearing about his great arm.

 

[SHOWTIME15]

I didn’t read this thread but here are my thoughts:

-difficult to compare football to basketball.

-it’s worth keeping in mind Jordan played offense and defense and won 6 titles in a much shorter period of time than Brady (6 in 8 years). Probably would have won 7-8 if he didn’t quit the first time.

-MJ won 3 in a row twice

-Brady did not have a Scottie Pippen sidekick on offense when he won 6 championships

-football is more of a team sport where everyone has to be on the same page to win a championship. Jordan, as 1 of 5 guys on the court, can just take over the game by himself. Brady needs guys to protect him and guys to get open to be succesful

-Jordan in his prime was the better ATHLETE

-I find it tough to put anyone above MJ

 

[signbabybrady]

There really is only one solution. Brady has to win 5 more.

 

[1960Pats]

Interesting. For a Mt. Rushmore i’d have one for team sports and one for individuals. Just to hard to compare a team to an individual sport.

I have Jordan ahead of Russell. He did it in a much harder era. Winning in a 8 team league is much easier then the modern era. Jordan was everything you want: clutch, talented, competitive. No slight to Russell who is a legend, but to me Jordan is the best ever. I have a similar argument with a friend who is a Habs fan and says Montreal is the best dynasty ever. How can you be the best dynasty when it was a 6 team league? So much easier to win.

With Gretzky vs Orr I actually agree with you that Orr was the superior player. If you’re picking one player to start a team I’m going with Orr. The argument gets more clouded though when you compare their careers. Gretzky doubles Orr in titles. Dominates much longer and amasses stats that will never be reached. Probably tilts the Mt. Rushmore to Gretzky.

Who exactly did Jordan's Bulls have to compete against to win their 6 titles? I know they never won squat against the Bird-led Celtics.

Yes, Russell played in a league with less teams (8-14) which meant that the talent was less watered down. His last title (his second as the player/coach) was on the road against a stacked Lakers team with Wilt, Jerry West and Elgin Baylor in the starting five.

In spite of the lesser amount of teams, the Celts still had to play in 2 or 3 playoff rounds depending on where they finished during the season, and none of those teams were one of 16 teams to qualify.

The Celts never won a thing before Russell arrived and won 11 of 13 while he was there, with one miss when he was injured. When he retired it was many years before they won again.

In case you haven't heard it before, between college and the Celtics, Russell played in two dozen or so games that were for all the marbles and the loser would be out. His team won every single one of them.

I won't even get into the fact that a player (Robert Horry) who played in the same era as Jordan has more titles, because he can't touch Russell either. Nobody can.

It's too bad that Russell didn't get to play play against Jordan, because Russell probably would have stuffed Jordan just like he did everyone else.

 

[1960Pats]

Only if MJ was Batman. He got pissy when Kukoc got the ball. There's so many guys who's public persona doesn't fit the asshats they were. Lasorda is legendary. Sugar Ray Leonard was in a restaurant I worked in as a high school job and left the waitress a 25 cent tip.

Hagler on the other hand had a bad reputation because the press didn't like him. He was awesome. A friend of mine and I were at Tia's in Boston and Marvin tried hitting on these two girls and we knew they didn't have a clue who he was. So we went over and said to them do you have any idea who you were talking to? They of course didn't. Next thing we know a round of drinks shows up for the 4 of us and the waitress says compliments of Mr Hagler. We look over and he toasts us and has a huge smile of his face. That was really cool.

Dennis Johnson was at a club one night and was super cool to everybody signing stuff and talking to everybody in the place. Very laid back and just happy to be out.

I met Jerry Tarkanian in Vegas at the Shark club which he owned in Vegas. Super nice and personable to everybody and I hated the Running Rebels team with LJ, Augman and the rest.

You just never know.

I had a similar experience with Hagler in a local restaurant back in the 80's. He was as nice as a person could be to us. If not for a rude drunk that chased him away we probably would have spent some time together.

On the flip side, I have a friend who spent a few years living in Vegas and worked as a bartender. He told me of two celebs who came into his workplace.

One was Craig Stadler, the golfer they called the Walrus, who spent quite a few hours at the bar getting free drinks and walked away after leaving a single dollar for a tip.

The other was Diana Ross who was having dinner in the restaurant and asked to have a white waiter serve her instead of the black man who was. The manager had to come over and let her know that they wouldn't do that.

Like you said, you never know.

As for Brady's Pats vs Jordan's Bulls, I think we have to look at each team vs the rest of their sport. In the NBA there have been plenty of three-peat teams. There was also a Celts team that won 8 in a row and 11 0f 13. There has never been an NYFL team to go to 9 title games in 18 years and win 6 of them, not even close.

Brady's Pats win over Jordan's Bulls.

 

[Ivan]

Brady. It’s much harder to be a dynasty in football, and Brady has led the Patriots to 2 separate dynasties in 2 consecutive decades. Basketball sees repeat winners and dynasties on a regular basis, with Golden State being just the latest example.

Football has only had one franchise achieve Dynasty status since the inception of the salary cap, and that’s the Patriots, and they have done it twice, both under Brady and Belichick.

 

[PatCat]

Not losing a finals, while playing 15 years, means that nine times he could not GET TO THE FINALS but instead LOST SOONER. 6-3 in the finals is WAY better than 6-0. Was Sam Darnold great this year because he didn't lose a Super Bowl?

Dude Brady didnt have as much as an impact on the game as MJ did. If Malcolm butler doesn't intercept that pass or James white doesnt punch it in vs atlanta or jules doesn't make a few remarkable catches Brady doesn't win 6. He can't play defense but Michael could. Football players success depend on other football players more so than basketball. And 6-0 is 100 percent. Brady didnt play well in this superbowl but the defense did.

 

[Ivan]

Russell was great but he really only had one contender to deal and that was Chamberlain. There is absolutely no comparison to today’s NFL.

 

[Ivan]

Dude Brady didnt have as much as an impact on the game as MJ did. If Malcolm butler doesn't intercept that pass or James white doesnt punch it in vs atlanta or jules doesn't make a few remarkable catches Brady doesn't win 6. He can't play defense but Michael could. Football players success depend on other football players more so than basketball. And 6-0 is 100 percent. Brady didnt play well in this superbowl but the defense did.

Acting as if it is only about the Super Bowl itself is myopic, the Patriots don’t sniff it if Brady doesn’t play great against the Chargers and Chiefs. It is much easier to win NBA titles than it is Lombardi’s, and that’s clear from the repeat winners in wa h sport.

 

[Simpelton]

I think Tom Brady would have made one heck of a catcher.

 

[RIpats88]

with a starting lineup of 5 guys vs 5 guys, the superstar players have a MUCH bigger effect on winning in the NBA. you RARELY see upsets in the NBA playoffs because the team with more top end talent generally wins 95% of the time. Especially with 7 game series. Look at the warriors. add some all-stars and you can basically buy yourself a championship.

The NFL is much more difficult because of the 53 guys on a team and roster turnover and the whole one and done format. Even looking at this years team vs. 2016 or last years...the turnover is astonishing.

Theres a reason there are multiple teams/players in the NBA throughout history who have gone to consecutive finals and it is so rare in the NFL

 

[signbabybrady]

There might be some cricket player out there with more rings and clutch plays but I wouldn't know it because who cares about cricket.

Now obviously NBA is different than cricket but Football is the greatest sport in the universe and TB is the best to ever play it so therefore I conclude TB is the greatest athlete in the universe.

 

[Ice_Ice_Brady]

Kareem Abdul-Jabar
19X All-Star
6X MVP
6X Champion
10X NBA Finalist

Why is Jordan better than him again?

 

[Antdawg]

For those arguing it's harder to win a championship in football than in basketball, that may be true. But who can seriously argue that Brady's 6th was because of him? Without that defensive masterclass, which Brady had nothing to do with, he doesn't win #6. You can't say that about Jordan. Without Jordan, the Bulls win 0 titles in the 1990's. There isn't even an argument.

Obviously, Brady was instrumental in the Patriots making it to SB53. But they didn't win SB53 because of TB12. Most QBs are going to win the SB when their defense holds the opposition to a single field goal.

TB12 is the GOAT of pro football, but comparing him to Jordan, who played a totally different sport, has a litany of pitfalls. The one mentioned being a very obvious one.

 

[neuronet]

Brady can't do this:

You are a Tarheels fan, so you don't count.

PS This brady/jordan debate is ludicrous: pointless philosophical prattle fabricated by people desperate for a hot take.

 

[Ice_Ice_Brady]

For those arguing it's harder to win a championship in football than in basketball, that may be true. But who can seriously argue that Brady's 6th was because of him? Without that defensive masterclass, which Brady had nothing to do with, he doesn't win #6. You can't say that about Jordan. Without Jordan, the Bulls win 0 titles in the 1990's. There isn't even an argument.

Obviously, Brady was instrumental in the Patriots making it to SB53. But they didn't win SB53 because of TB12. Most QBs are going to win the SB when their defense holds the opposition to a single field goal.

TB12 is the GOAT of pro football, but comparing him to Jordan, who played a totally different sport, has a litany of pitfalls. The one mentioned being a very obvious one.

There is definitely an argument the Bulls win a championship without Jordan. They won 55 games the year he left and still could have signed another star player. Phil Jackson seemed to get by okay without him.

As for Brady, over the last two years the Patriots have the record for most points scored in a SB loss and fewest points scored in a SB win. Seems a 1-1 record is fair to me. Brady was also the reason they were in SB53.

 

[Antdawg]

There is definitely an argument the Bulls win a championship without Jordan.

Not really, because they didn't. But I can think of a lot of QBs that would have won a football game if their defense held an otherwise high-powered offense to 3 points total. Jordan had everything to do with the Bulls winning 6. Brady didn't play a single snap on defense in SB53.

 

[Ice_Ice_Brady]

Not really, because they didn't. But I can think of a lot of QBs that would have won a football game if their defense held an otherwise high-powered offense to 3 points total. Jordan had everything to do with the Bulls winning 6. Brady didn't play a single snap on defense in SB53.

So you can't make an arguments that the 1990s Bulls could have won a championship without Jordan because it's theoretical, and they didn't win in one try? But you can make plenty of theoretical arguments about how other quarterbacks would perform in an alternate universe with the 2018 Patriots, or in Super Bowl 53?

And you really think if the Rams had scored 21 points, the Patriots still score just 13? Yikes.

 

[MassPats38]

Not really, because they didn't. But I can think of a lot of QBs that would have won a football game if their defense held an otherwise high-powered offense to 3 points total. Jordan had everything to do with the Bulls winning 6. Brady didn't play a single snap on defense in SB53.

I believe it's apples and oranges, but basketball is not Ironman football. Jordan, at 38 minutes per game average, did not suffer the physical toll the equivalent of playing offense and defense in football. Fouls are called for blocking, slapping the wrist and reaching in. If an NBA player takes an NFL level hit, the player hitting is ejected. Jordan is 'tough' for playing with the flu. Brady has had to play with injuries far worse than that, and stand up after getting de-cleated by guys like Von Miller. Jordan can play offense and defense because it is a touch sport. He was great at defense, but I wouldn't credit his defense alone as influencing game outcomes. Rodman and Pippen say hi.

How many defensive title games have the Pats played to date, when the offense needed to do only a little to win? 1. Without Brady, even in the last game, I am not convinced they win one, because it isn't just the points that matter. It's sustaining drives and doing what needs to be done to win a game under any circumstances. This was his worst statistical game, after leading two great offensive performances in the playoffs, yet he still made the clutch throws and drove the dagger home.

And if you watched the last game, with as well as the Rams defense was playing, and believe many QBs could do what Brady did, then I would suggest you do not understand much of the role of a QB. It is not just to rack up stats Madden-style. Some times, it is to seize back control of the game when a defense is trying to dictate how a game plays out. Not as easy as it looks.