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Brady vs Jordan

Discussion in 'PatsFans.com - Patriots Fan Forum' started by Redman443, Jan 16, 2019.

  1. Antdawg

    Antdawg Practice Squad Player

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    The Bulls literally stopped winning championships as soon as Jordan retired and then won 3 straight as soon as he came back. (please don't be silly and count '95 as him being back) As for signing another star player and winning more rings without Jordan, why didn't they? That team was falling apart when MJ came out of retirement.

    Look, I regard Brady as the best QB in pro football history. Hands down. But one of the things that made Jordan unique was that he could dominate you on both sides of the ball. He was the shut down defense guy. To even suggest the Bulls could have simply signed a FA to replace his production at the height of his prime is silly.

    Which brings up another issue with the Jordan comparisons... dude retired right smack in the middle of his prime years. Came back and his first full season back, he sets the then all-time record for regular season NBA wins and wins the next 3 Finals. To quit your craft like that and come back better than you were when you left is no minor feat in of itself. Muhammad Ali-esque. As a professional athlete, nobody could dominate you at all phases of the game like Michael Jordan could.
     

  2. Doctor DDS

    Doctor DDS On the Game Day Roster

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    Brady's team success absolutely blows away Jordan's. It was not until after the Celtics, Lakers and Pistons got old that the Bulls were able to break through. It was an extremely impressive 8 year run but not sure it was any more impressive than what the 80's Lakers accomplished or what the Warriors are about to do (if they can keep the team together) It obviously does not compare to the 60's Celtics. He was more famous and certainly more athletically gifted but I never once saw him take a weaker version of the Bulls any farther than expected.
     
  3. Ice_Ice_Brady

    Ice_Ice_Brady Veteran Starter w/Big Long Term Deal

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    For many reasons, it is evident he doesn't grasp this, along with many other excellent points that you make.
     
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  4. Ice_Ice_Brady

    Ice_Ice_Brady Veteran Starter w/Big Long Term Deal

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    He chose to walk away, which is what I keep coming back to as the reason he isn't the clear GOAT. Ali was forced away from boxing and then regained the title at age 39. Jordan's championship peak was from 1991-1998. Brady's was 2001-2018 (and counting). Kareem's was 1971-1988. Ali was 1964-1978.

    The idea that Jordan is unique as a two-way NBA star is ridiculous. Kareem Abdul-Jabar was an 11X all-defensive team selection. LeBron James is 6X. Kobe Bryant was 12X.

    How convenient that Jordan walked away as an immortal (or did we forget about his last return with the Wizards) and an iconic shot to win it all? He never won a title or even made the finals without Pippen and Jackson, and I'd compare those pre-1990 Bulls teams to some of LeBron's Cavs teams. How many titles would Jordan have won if he had not retired voluntarily twice and actually played his entire career like all these other GOAT NBA contenders? We'll never know. I guess he wasn't the GOAT since he was unable to handle playing in the NBA after three-peating twice, whereas other guys could.
     
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  5. Antdawg

    Antdawg Practice Squad Player

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    LOL, yeah I think I already said Brady is the best QB of all time. There's no debate here that he is a virtuoso QB and that he is magical out there. Never said he wasn't. But to act like he's in a class above MJ is ridiculous. As many have pointed out, you can't compare the two, because they are two different sports.

    But Jordan as a player, was much more versatile and could beat you in many more ways. He dribbled great, he was a great passer, he won defensive player of the year how many times?, he could shoot 3's, he could dunk, he could rebound, he could hit free throws and nobody was more clutch at crunch time than Michael f'n Jordan. He did it all. And that's not to say TB12 is one dimensional, but he ain't going to beat you with his legs and he's not super versatile like MJ was. If you want to put them at the same table together, that's fine, but to suggest Brady is above MJ I think bespeaks of homerism. There has never been an athlete that was so single-handedly dominant at his craft than Michael Jordan.
     
  6. TommyBrady12

    TommyBrady12 Pro Bowl Player

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    This is pretty funny...Max Kellerman, Stephen A, and Will Cain debate this topic. Kellerman and Cain really go at it...

     
  7. Ice_Ice_Brady

    Ice_Ice_Brady Veteran Starter w/Big Long Term Deal

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    Despite my screen name, I'm not here solely to pump up Brady. I just don't think Jordan is the clear GOAT of NBA basketball. I was alive and well for Jordan's entire career...he is certainly one of the greatest of all-time, and his peak might be the highest. His overall career accomplishments, measured efficiency, ability were not unique. Television advertising, Nike, and other factors, including his decision to walk away with an image of perfection (despite having plenty of gas in the tank) are reasons why I believe people place Jordan over everyone else like there is no question. Basketball is a sport where a handful of players have absolutely dominated the league on both ends of the court for many years and been virtually unstoppable. Counting up accomplishments, like overall number of championships, looking at how long their championship dominance lasted from, considering how many different "setups" they had with different teams and players around them...those things are all big factors. Of course I will not dispute Jordan's greatness. I just think he may not even be the GOAT of the NBA, let alone all sports.
     
  8. RayRay

    RayRay On the Roster

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    For some of you who are stating that Jordan played both sides of the ball and was more versatile is ridiculous considering there is no harder position to play in sports than quarterback.
    You’re trying to downplay the skills needed to play the quarterback position.

    In basketball you have guards and some forwards who can easily play the 2 guard.
    In football it’s not even close. Other than the quarterbacks, there’s no one else who can play that position.

    There’s more failure in the professional level in that position than any other sport.
     
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  9. Ice_Ice_Brady

    Ice_Ice_Brady Veteran Starter w/Big Long Term Deal

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    This entire “he should retire now and go out on top for his legacy” was invented by Michael Jordan and Nike.
     
  10. 1960Pats

    1960Pats PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Because he had better marketing?
     
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  11. Ice_Ice_Brady

    Ice_Ice_Brady Veteran Starter w/Big Long Term Deal

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    Glad I’m not the only one and not a tin foil hat wearer.
     
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  12. Bobsyouruncle

    Bobsyouruncle Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract

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    Time of possession is a big reason the defense held them to three points. You can’t just assume another QB can keep the ball so the Rams offense is on the sideline.

    Maybe another QB does the same but we don’t know. We do know the Brady led Patriots never had a losing season, while the Jordan led Bulls had several.
     
  13. scout

    scout Veteran Starter w/Big Long Term Deal

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    I throw up a little in my mouth when I read this. The author must have been a Jordan homer. "Cut from his high school team?" He was a sophomore and my guess is the guy was taller than Jordan. Do you know Jordan invited him to his HOF speech so Jordan could rant on him?

    Red used to say, 50 miles outside of Boston the Bruins were UCLA Bruins. The Bruins/Celtics had a very bad relationship. Although, Bobby Orr did change the game of hockey, unlike a prolific scorer.

    He didn't voluntarily retire from basketball to pursue baseball. He owed the mob a lot of money for gambling and had to cool his jets. The owner of the Bulls also owned the White Sox. Around Chicago, there is a rumor that Jordan's dad was murdered by the mob. While that may not be true, the death of his dad is a tad shady.

    A word about Jordan and Russell. Man, Jordan could jump! Not sure he could jump like Julius Erving. Although, he sure had the marketing. Let's be clear, Bill Russell was an athletic freak (he jumped 6'9"). Micheal Jordan was not up to Russell's defensive abilities. Nine out of 10 blocked shots went to Celtics (Red), and he had a lot of them per game (NBA did not keep tabs). I would probably give Jordan the nod over Russell. Just not garbage people spew.

    The question is not comparing sports, but comparing GOATS. Coincidently, when a comparison is made of John Hannah and a present day offensive lineman a physical comparison is made. That has nothing to do with it. The criteria is how did Hannah perform against his competition versus how does today's guard perform. Therefore, how did Jordan perform against his competition versus Brady.

    Brady gets the nod over Jordon as the GOAT player. BTW, Brady is not done.
     
    Last edited: Feb 9, 2019
  14. Ice_Ice_Brady

    Ice_Ice_Brady Veteran Starter w/Big Long Term Deal

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    During that Facebook show, Brady told Gisele something like “just two more” when he had five. I’ve been very adamant that I don’t think he’ll retire before age 45 - regardless of the last few Super Bowl ourtcomes - because he is so passionate about his fitness and diet ideas that he wants to push the limits of aging. That said, I do wonder if he has an agreement with Gisele that he’d retire if he wins 7. This GOAT thread has gotten me doing some digging about American athletes in the modern era (so excluding the rather impossible-to-duplicate feats of the Yankees, Celtics, and Canadiens), and 7 is indeed a significant number.

    Championships Won (icons only, all four major sports)

    Tom Brady - 6
    Kareem Abdul-Jabar - 6
    Michael Jordan - 6
    Mark Messier - 6
    Magic Johnson - 5
    Tim Duncan - 5
    Kobe Bryant - 5
    Derek Jeter - 5
    Bart Starr - 5
    Joe Montana - 4
    Wayne Gretzky - 4
    Patrick Roy - 4

    Robert Horry, of course, has 7 titles because the universe is orderless.

    Otto Graham had 7 titles in the borderline modern era, but 4 of them were AAFL. That league really should not count as there were only a few competitive teams, though Graham probably would have easily won more than 3 had he played his entire career in the NFL.
     
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  15. MrNathanDrake

    MrNathanDrake In the Starting Line-Up

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    With 6 rings now, no one in NFL history is even close to Brady. Montana is really the only one that can even be mentioned in the same sentence.


    When it comes to Jordan.... there's a lot of comparisons to him as a player (LeBron, Kobe, etc) , and to his dynasty with the Bulls (Lakers, Celtics). There isn't a massive gap between him and the guys after him. With Brady, there is.
     
  16. Bruins29

    Bruins29 PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Sorry mike. You are no Tom Brady
     
  17. wolverinejoe80

    wolverinejoe80 2nd Team Getting Their First Start

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    bill russell - 11
     
  18. wolverinejoe80

    wolverinejoe80 2nd Team Getting Their First Start

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    among QBs? yes, there's a massive gap. but in all players? i heard these names in the GOAT debate - LT, jerry rice, and even deion sanders.

    IMO there's no such thing as a consensus GOAT in any sports. because people arent rational. even the great muhammad ali isn't a consensus GOAT. there's rocky marciano, joe lewis, sugar ray robinson, etc, etc.

    i think we should just brady's body of work speak for himself.
     

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